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Kmeleon - Windows Gecko Browser

Hemos posted more than 13 years ago | from the this-technology-could-fall-into-the-right-hands dept.

Mozilla 226

Chasuk writes "Slashdot users who are also Windows users might be interested in visiting this site, where they can download Kmeleon, which is described on that site thusly: "K-Meleon is the Windows answer to Galeon. Thus, K-Meleon is a lite Web browser based on gecko (the mozilla rendering engine). It's fast, it has a light interface, and it is fully standards-compliant. To make it simple, K-Meleon could be considered as the unbloated Mozilla version for Windows.""

cancel ×

226 comments

Interesting... (1)

Enoch Root (57473) | more than 13 years ago | (#837726)

...too bad the combination of a silly name (Kmeleon?! WTF?) and a ho-hum overall appearance will plunge this thing into obscurity faster than you can say 'Internet Explorer'. Yet another project whose 5 seconds of fame consists of a Slashdot front.

Slashdot - News for Lawyers (5)

Augusto (12068) | more than 13 years ago | (#837730)

Yes, let's not discuss technical issues or figure if something is useful or not, let's get bogged down on licenses.

I for one, am getting tired of how complicated this is getting. If these license issues generate so many discussions with lots of confused developers, then maybe these licenses are too complicated for developers. Either simplify and clairify these damned things once and for all, or make "license/copyright law" a part of the CS curriculum.

I'm starting to miss language war discussions, coding style holy wars, etc. License non-sense is just so uninteresting.

Re:Galeon (1)

Rhys Dyfrgi (64793) | more than 13 years ago | (#837732)

It's bloated because, as I said, I would need GNOME to use Galeon. I don't use GNOME. Installing GNOME just to use Galeon is a huge space/time waster for me. And then I have to use the GNOME control panel to change some settings, which isn't terribly easy w/o running the GNOME desktop; which I don't do, and am not willing to just to use an unbloated browser.

The browser itself isn't bloated, no, it just passes off all the bloat onto GNOME. Granted, all that stuff does something, but I don't need all that something just for a web browser.
---

Re:Well it looks good... (1)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 13 years ago | (#837734)

I'm using M17 right this second and I'm lovin' it more every minute.
Feel the power of open source software....ahhhh....
:)

Email me.
Don't trust anyone over 90000.

mirrors? (1)

scottm (288) | more than 13 years ago | (#837737)

Anyone have a mirror up? The site and the only mirror posted so far are gone...

Re:IE replacement (1)

Enahs (1606) | more than 13 years ago | (#837738)

Uh, motherfucker, like IE and Explorer are tightly integrated?

CLUE STICK: they're not really integrated, tied at the hip, whatever. Microsluts have just written the apps to fire each other up when they're needed. If one wanted to go to the trouble, one could *probably* replace most of IE's functionality (and Outlook, for that matter). And someone should, considering the big gaping holes that Microsoft left in their products.

Re:Slashdot - News for Lawyers (1)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837739)

If you want open source code to prevail (meaning, it evolves and stays open), then you'll need something like the GPL. The downside is that there's no way of avoiding these issues.

Do you think I'm so interested in them? Not really, which I thought I made pretty clear in my post.

Gamelon (1)

_SIGKILL_ (170600) | more than 13 years ago | (#837740)

GTK+ is available for Windows, so shouldn't it be possible to run Gamelon in Windows. It would only require a little effort to get it going...

screenshot (1)

lemurific (220735) | more than 13 years ago | (#837741)

is anyone else impressed that one of their screenshots is of misery-in-motion's site?

Proxy?!?!? (1)

Maori (218024) | more than 13 years ago | (#837744)

I just tried it, but I can't tell it to use a proxy!!
And I need it as I can't get outside of our LAN!

Well, it's a v0.1, so its *somehow* acceptable...

But the internal pages are rendered very fast. :-)

Maori

Lite? I don't think so... (1)

kevin42 (161303) | more than 13 years ago | (#837746)

If I load up K-Melon and IE fresh, then go to /., K-melon takes 15 megs, and IE takes 14 megs.

So much for lite!

Taking note? (5)

finkployd (12902) | more than 13 years ago | (#837748)

I wonder if the Mozilla people are taking note of the vocal (at least on slashdot) outcry for a SMALL, STANDARDS COMPLIANT, SIMPLE, and FAST browser?

I don't know who wants bundled applications, every feature you can think of, and huge executible size, but appearently someone does, cause that is what they are delivering.

At least there are projects out now to fix this, and since Mozilla is open source, it IS possible to strip it down when it reaches final form.

(disclaimer: I've used every mozilla release since R4, unless you are testing with a quad-xeon, don't flame me telling me it's fast and not bloated)

Finkployd

browsers & browsers (1)

tigrrl (219188) | more than 13 years ago | (#837749)

This article references a browser called Galeon - I've never heard of it before and have been looking for an alternative to Netscape for my linux box. Anyone have experience with Galeon, to recommend or *not* recommend it?

Netscape is driving me nuts - on the linux box it crashes on java sites occasionally, on the windows box at home if we use the roll button on the mouse, it takes the entire system down and necessitates a hard boot. IE isn't any better. I hate the notion of supporting the economic blitzkrieg of the Active Desktop. Furthermore, it takes it's own sweeeeeeettt time about loading in web pages and does not reliably respond to input in the form of, say, mouse clicks. grrr.

Quoting from the K-meleon page (1)

ravi_n (175591) | more than 13 years ago | (#837751)

"K-Meleon is released under the GNU Private License."

I downloaded the source code and it appears to be licensed under the GNU General Public License, so I assume it is just a slip. However, it is an amusing one.

Missing Features (2)

CoreDump (1715) | more than 13 years ago | (#837752)

It is small, fast, and light. But, it still needs a fair number of features before it's usable.
Until it has these I'm stuck using other browsers.

For example:

  • https
  • passworded sites
  • cookies

It is faster than NS 4.7, but about the same as NS 6.0 PR2 ( though it has a much smaller footprint ).

I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this program, it has a lot of promise.
---------------------------------------- --------------------

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (1)

Zarniwoop (25791) | more than 13 years ago | (#837754)

You do realize that this is a windows browser... right?


What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?

Re:That's it! (2)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 13 years ago | (#837757)

$ cd mozilla-src
$ echo "ac_add_options --disable-mailnews" >> ~/.mozconfig
$ make -f client.mk

Your point is taken, but mozilla can be built without its mail and news.

Mirror (1)

robogop (160428) | more than 13 years ago | (#837763)

I don't suppose any has a mirror up? The site seems to be a bit slashdotted at the moment.

It's not that complicated, sheesh! (1)

stevenj (9583) | more than 13 years ago | (#837765)

They just need to add an exception in their copyright statement, saying that they grant permission to link to MPLed code and distribute the resulting executables without the MPLed stuff having to fall under the GPL. Unless they're using GPL code from other sources, to which they don't hold the copyright...in which case they need to get permission.

Even GNU programs sometimes include similar sorts of exception statements, when practical issues demand it; see GNU Guile [gnu.org] or Autoconf [redhat.com] for examples.

As for linking to the Microsoft libraries, the GPL has a special exception allowing linking with anything that normally comes with the OS or the compiler.

Yeah... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#837769)

but does it contain IM?

No? Well sign me the fuck up, then !!!

AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (1)

FascDot Killed My Pr (24021) | more than 13 years ago | (#837772)

I'm all for diversity. I'm all for competition. BUT.

Wouldn't it save a LOT of effort and time if the Galeon and K-Meleon people could get together and create a non-session-manager-specific Gecko-based browser as a base that ANYONE could use? They could also provide a version linked against their respective bloat^H^H^H^H^H libraries for people that like that sort of thing.
--

That's it! (4)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#837773)

Mozilla without the mail/news/etc...

Sometimes (almost always) you just want a browser, and not all that other stuff... though it does use the IE bookmarking system (never really did like that - it always moved them around on me).

Even if it isn't all that full-featured at this point, it may be an important stepping stone.

--

IE replacement (3)

Barbarian (9467) | more than 13 years ago | (#837775)

It could also be considered a browser to replace IE, since IE doesn't have mail or news built-in either.

--

Re:just dled it... (1)

miguel_at_menino.com (89271) | more than 13 years ago | (#837776)

Weird, I couldn't get it to do anything on an NT workstation. Downloaded, installed it, the icon appeared, but didn't do anything.

SSL? (2)

macpeep (36699) | more than 13 years ago | (#837777)

Does it support SSL? AFAIK, SSL in Mozilla is supported through the Netscape-Sun Alliance developed PSM system right now. Is it used here too or?

Re:just dled it... (1)

Uart (29577) | more than 13 years ago | (#837778)

Is it something you would use everyday though, or is it just a really good curiosity?

Re:That's it! (1)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#837779)

Yeah (I do exclude it), but it would be nice to be able to suck down many many many megs less... 75MB (even on a cable modem) does get a little weary, especially when I'm just trying to get a new nightly build...

--

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (1)

Emil Brink (69213) | more than 13 years ago | (#837780)

I think it's a shame that neither the Slashdot editor (Hemos) or you made Galeon [sourceforge.net] a link, since perhaps someone wants to know more (without going through the nowadays horrible image-mapped h*ll that is gnome.org [gnome.org] ). There. ;^)

Re:IE replacement (1)

stinky monkey (222818) | more than 13 years ago | (#837781)

Why is this marked as flame bait? Seems like a legit thought process to me...

I feal the dragons breath again. (4)

Forge (2456) | more than 13 years ago | (#837782)

This reminds me of the energy and the hope embodied in the original QT release. When a bunch of Ozis added strong encryption in 24 hours and 5 Norwegians ( 3 Troll, 2 KDE ) ported it to QT in a couple of days ( fast 2 meg binary that crashed as much as Mozilla did 8 months ago ). Back then it looked like a 6 month project.

We have come a long way with people calling the project dead and others resigning because it just wasn't working out. Now it looks like there is a light at the end of the tonel. Mozilla will be done eventually. Maybe in as little as 3 months.

Now with at least 3 mostly standards compliant browsers, two of which support the same plugins ( Mozilla and Konquorer ) there is a chance to take back the web and marginalize proprietary interfaces.

I like choice. I want to use 3 or 4 different browsers depending on mood, lighting and How I will use the site. However I want them to agree on what "HTML" stands for. I want XML and other buzzwords to be accurately supported. I want the freedom to use what I like.

Nullsoft again ?!? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#837783)

If you look closer to the author email, it shows christophe@nullsoft.com.

Going to winamp 3 team page, it appears that this guy is actually working for the Nullsoft team. Which is owned by AOL. Which owns Netscape. Which owns Gecko.

hmm... Although, i can say that with releases such as Gnutella and now K-Meleon, Nullsoft rocks.

Re:Is it safe to install? (2)

generic-man (33649) | more than 13 years ago | (#837806)

Currently on my machine here at work, I have Internet Explorer 5.5, Mozilla M17, Netscape 4.74, and now K-meleon. K-meleon seems a bit rough around the edges (for the same reasons Mozilla does) but it doesn't crash constantly.

All four of these browsers appear to get along just fine.

Finally! (1)

Zarniwoop (25791) | more than 13 years ago | (#837807)

I've been saying pretty much since I saw the who xul interface thing that as custoumizable it is, what *really* needs to happen is to make a native toolkit port. It cuts down on so much unneccessary bloat... A interpreted toolkit built into your browser? It's like emacs all over again! ;)

Anyways, mad props to the k-meleon guy. I hope this turns out great, for all of us who use both windows and linux, or just windows. Now if only someone would start a MacOS-specific port...


What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?

Re:That's it! (1)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#837808)

First post in a long time, and you use it like that?! Damn, what crawled up your ass today?
--

Re:Lite? I don't think so... (1)

mhelie (83207) | more than 13 years ago | (#837809)

The code itself for IE is loaded at boot by the OS, the page render takes 14 megs.

KMeleon (he really needs to change that name), browser and page included, takes up 15megs. I think it's an improvement.

It nevertheless IS faster than IE.

--------------------

Re:Ugh, license issues revisited (1)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837810)

Note: This probably only affects his "Full install" version, which includes all the Mozilla bins with it.

His "lite" version seems more OK, except that Richard Stallman would argue that because he's linking to non-GPLed code, the two could never be distributed together.

Also note that once Mozilla completes its transformation to being dual-licensed (GPL/MPL), it will no longer matter. But, of course, we don't know how long that will take.

Re:That's it! (2)

Foogle (35117) | more than 13 years ago | (#837811)

Although everyone else here seems inclined to spank you, I wholeheartedly agree. I'm running KMeleon as I post this, and it's absolutely fabulous. The UI isn't some mucked-up XML crap; it's at least twice as responsive as Mozilla on any day, regardless of whether you install Mail and News as well.

-----------

"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Re:Ugh, license issues revisited (2)

ct.smith (80232) | more than 13 years ago | (#837812)

Conflicting with the MPL is bad enough, but there is also the question as to how the GPL can be applied to the Microsoft stuff in it. Looks like lots of MFC code, and MS artwork was obviously used for the buttons.

Re:Windows? Which version? (1)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#837837)

Worked on my NT4 (SP 6)...

--

an minor critique (1)

kellan1 (23372) | more than 13 years ago | (#837838)

installed simply, no libraries to install, no you need to already have mozilla installed. clean, simple, FAST! (and no "modern" look in sight)

i'm seeing some visual artifacts (weird vertical lines at the edges of tables) that i'm not used to seeing on mozilla.

but after i finish posting this article i'm going to quit it, and go back to using netscape.

why you ask?

there is a little animated bowel movement where i'm used to an N lit up by shooting stars.

kellan

Re:Windows? Which version? (1)

a2800276 (50374) | more than 13 years ago | (#837839)

Works fine for me (NT 4, SP 5, german). I did have to run the installer twice though, and the first time I started it, it took forever and ended in Dr. Watson. Works fine now.

IT HAS FADING MENUS (2)

generic-man (33649) | more than 13 years ago | (#837840)

I think I'll stay with Kmeleon for one reason and one reason only: FADING MENUS. Now I can have all the slow UI touches of Windows 2000 today!

(View > Preferences... > Menu to set. And they don't have the cool fade-out effect like in Windows 2000 -- yet.)

nice, but needs work.. (2)

Barbarian (9467) | more than 13 years ago | (#837841)

Mea culpa: I normally use IE5.5

After downloading Kmeleon, here's what I found that needs work:

- it stole my "Links" bar! In IE5.5, I customized this bar, but when Kmeleon is loaded, it replaces the Links bar with it's own links. (The Links bar is stored in windows\favorites\Links)
- it actually uses MFC. In fact, it crashed with a page fault in mfc42.dll.
- no https
- No Smallest,small,medium,large,largest font selection.
- Cookies?

Overall, it looks nice, and it runs pretty fast. If it wasn't for the non-customizable links bar, and if Cookies were fully implemented, I'd use it instead of IE5.5

--

Re:Windows? Which version? (1)

dkfn (20359) | more than 13 years ago | (#837842)

Have it working on windows NT 4.0 workstation over here.

Kmeleon is surprisingly good for a one man show although he seems to be emulating somewhat older versions of IE (3.0?).

What it does best is just show the potential, though. I'd swap over to an IE clone that was running gecko instead of IE in a second. And for Windows, I want something Windows specific that uses all standard evil (tm) stuff that Windows is actually good at, so I don't have to suffer more than I already do using Big Bill's "operating system".

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#837843)

It didn't seem too image-mapped, but maybe that was because the "www." was required for that link :) I don't blame you - their domain admin should take the thirty seconds (if that) that it takes to point gnome.org => www.gnome.org.

Re:That's it! (1)

My_Favorite_Anonymou (36494) | more than 13 years ago | (#837844)

Amen! I have spent way too much time defending mozilla. m16 m17 use more time to start up on my pentium233 then netscape4. If this release have conflict with MPL license, then MPL license is evil! It's the worst "open source compliment" license. I mean what the f*** are they doing. Take Netscape 3.02 and add some keybroad shortcut on it, plus some crash proof js, and we have a perfect browser.

It's time brother.

CY

Re:Name? (1)

Covant (103882) | more than 13 years ago | (#837845)

if it's using MFC it should probably be called
MyGecko

Re:This is why non-GPL free licenses suck (1)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837846)

Fortunately, Mozilla will be dual-licensed under the GPL/MPL someday.

Mirrors? (1)

abischof (255) | more than 13 years ago | (#837847)

As the site seems to be undergoing the Slashdot Effect, does anyone have any mirrors, if only for the download?

PS I concur with the other poster Re:Proxy, as I consider that to be a highly useful feature as well (especially for ad busting [junkbuster.com] ).

Alex Bischoff
Interested in building a roof over your cubicle? [slashdot.org]
---

Re:Wow! (2)

Sneakums (2534) | more than 13 years ago | (#837848)

Does this mean there's actually a shipping product from Mozilla?

Wow! More wilful stupidity!

Not bad, how many years late?

Just because you want it now does not mean Mozilla is late. I am not the only person who is prepared wait for something good.

--
"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"

Inaccurate my ass. (3)

Tridus (79566) | more than 13 years ago | (#837849)

Common misconception that is.

Funny how when I click that mail button, it opens *Eudora*.

I don't have Outlook or Outlook Express installed, there is this really neat option at install time to turn OE off, and same thing with Outlook when you install Office.

Gee, there's some massive integration for you, they're entirely seperate programs!

See, now Netscape mail is integrated, I can't choose to not install it during the Communicator installation. No matter what, its there. Outlook Express I can quite easily get rid of, and tell IE to use Eudora, or Agent, or The Bat, or whatever other mail program happens to interest me today.

Apparently both you and the moderators haven't actually gone and looked yet.

Re:IE replacement (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 13 years ago | (#837868)

Funny, I've been using IE5 at home for months without installing Outlook or even Outlook Express. Mailto links don't work, obviously, but the browser is otherwise fully functional.

It's true that you can't install Microsoft Office 2000 without installing Internet Explorer, but that certainly doesn't mean that IE and Outlook are "considered to be one product."

Re:Nullsoft again ?!? (2)

WalrusSP (124853) | more than 13 years ago | (#837869)

Here's an excerpt from Christophe's .plan for Sunday 8/21 (http://www.winamp. com/community/team/finger.jhtml?who=christophe [winamp.com] ):

I was bored on sunday so i played a little with Gecko as we want to use it into wa3. Note that it will only use Gecko if you have Mozilla installed, we don't want to add 18 megs to the distribution :)

So here is the result : K-Meleon [kmeleon.org] . A tiny, fast web browser using the Gecko engine.

It seems the plans are to include K-Meleon in Winamp 3 as a replacement for the current minibrowser, which is embedded IE. Makes sense, given that AOL owns Nullsoft.

Chameleon! (1)

Jeppe Salvesen (101622) | more than 13 years ago | (#837870)

As in a reptile that's remarkably stealthy - it will change colors according to the environment. As in - this browser is the ultimate since it does the job without flashing you with features. A great name!

Galeon (2)

Rhys Dyfrgi (64793) | more than 13 years ago | (#837871)

This is a response to Galeon?

Saying it is "also" light and unbloated?

Too bad Galeon requires me to install all of GNOME as well. Not exactly unbloated if you don't use GNOME, is it? It even requires you to use the GNOME control panel to set such things as your mailer, and to have GNOME programs beyond the base GNOME libs, such as GTM (Gnome Transfer Manager, for downloads).

I'm sorry, but Galeon doesn't quite cut it for me. Too bad there aren't many binding for embedding Mozilla yet, only the gtk bindings. Of course, you could just use the embedding interface interface of Mozilla itself and build your own wrapper. Judging by gtkmozembed, it'd only take around 70kbyes of code.

You'd also, of course, have to understand the very confusing embedding docs [mozilla.org] , and while the gtkmozembed code [mozilla.org] might help a bit, it's very Gtk specific.

Perhaps someone will start developing some other bindings so that you don't need to implement 5 different objects to interface with the embedding objects. Oh, and create the associated IDL files, whatever those are, I haven't figured them out yet.

One of Mozilla's major claims to fame is its embeddability. Too bad it's not very embeddable yet.

Wow, I went just a bit off my train of thought.. well. Galeon requires GNOME, K-Meleon requires Windows.. I guess that evens it out a bit. I'd really like to see a Gtk-only Mozilla-based webbrowser, though; no GNOME, no KDE, just Gtk, Mozilla code, Linux, and X.
---

Why not keep Mozilla licence (2)

linuxci (3530) | more than 13 years ago | (#837872)

I understand why Galeon was put under GPL, it was to keep the same licence as other Gnome components and at the time Mozilla weren't talking about dual licensing. Now that they want to dual licence Mozilla under MPL and GPL wouldn't it help both projects if they dual licenced k meleon and at the moment it's probably illegal to distribute the GPL and MPL components together (read the post by a Galeon developer). I think whenever possible licence compatibility should be maintained and in this case should be dual GPL/MPL.

(and it's the GNU General Public Licence (not the GNU private licence ;) or the GNU Public Licence)
BTW I'm not spelling licence wrong it's one of the words that differ in the UK.

Re:standards? (4)

Sneakums (2534) | more than 13 years ago | (#837873)

This isn't insightful, it's stupid. The phrase "standards-compliant" refers to W3C standards, such as XML and CSS.

By the way, Mozilla *does* support proxies.


--
"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"

K-Meleon is Lightweight? (1)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 13 years ago | (#837874)

If K-Meleon is lightweight, Then IE is a featherweight compared to it.

First im Running NT Workstation 4.0.
I have 128MB of ram on a PIII866

K-Meleon was rather Jerky.

A quick trip to Task_Manager revealead it was not using all that much processor so it was... waiting on events.. i dont know it was very jerky.

Each browswer one to /. (just the main page) and another window to a smallish website consumed just over 40MB of ram!!!!

If that is light weight... were in trouble.

I really hope it is just because this thing is in development. It had an absolutely huge memory footprint.

It was only a 2.85MB Download but owch.. I had to shut it down because I could not type in the text area to post to /. from the browser.

Anyways.. YMMV

Jeremy

Are you behind a firewall? (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 13 years ago | (#837875)

I'm gonna guess that you're behind a firewall. If that's the case, then it won't work. (Well, it will work on sites inside the firewall, but not outside.) I've got it running on NT4 SP6 behind a firewall, although I can't access Slashdot or anything through a proxy - you can't access the configuration settings. I'll have to fool around with it later, see if I can get proxy settings up and running. Looks nice, though.

OK, as long as we boot ecmascript out of standard. (2)

TheDullBlade (28998) | more than 13 years ago | (#837876)

Seriously, it's evil. It's a total betrayal of the browser by stealing away control the user should have and giving it to the web developer (when things like advertising put them at cross purposes). We shouldn't legitimize its use by including it "web standards", and any site that uses it shouldn't be called a real website, just another net-downloadable program.

Standards are only a good thing when they standardize on good behavior.

---
Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.

Re:browsers & browsers (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#837877)

Galeon is great for most sites already, although there's no Java or Javascript which makes it useless for my webmail. But for standard browsing it's just what I need.
Check it out here [galeon.net]

Downloaded, Installed.... (1)

glitch_ (48803) | more than 13 years ago | (#837878)

And Impressed....everything is quick, responsive and I can't wait for the final version...good work.

cool. now can someone port it to the Mac..? (1)

The Akond of Swat (205939) | more than 13 years ago | (#837880)

..where microsofts IE5, although excellent, could use more competition (netscape ain't it, and icab, maybe soon..) btw, isn't unbloated a great word?

Approach to HTML (1)

sstrick (137546) | more than 13 years ago | (#837881)

I like this guys approach to HTML:

(c) 2000 christophe thibault. All rights reserved.
(no, i don't have the time to make a fucking pretty page)

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (2)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837885)

No.

In fact, using the Gnome libraries has greatly decreased development time. Galeon has and probably always will be (unless someone wants to make a Gtk+ only version) a Gnome web browser.

'Nuff said (1)

Tyrannosaurus (203173) | more than 13 years ago | (#837887)

...the unbloated Mozilla version for Windows.

This is what it should have been all along.

---

K-Maleon? (1)

Rob Kaper (5960) | more than 13 years ago | (#837892)

Sounds more like a Gecko-based KDE browser to me. :-)

Re:My Frist Frist Psot! (1)

Ummite (195748) | more than 13 years ago | (#837893)

Is this something interesting to know?

Re:IE replacement (1)

stinky monkey (222818) | more than 13 years ago | (#837899)

Oh... I haven't run IE in such a long time that I didn't realize they put a fancy mail "button" in there. Sorry to hear you're still using it.

Re:Taking note? (2)

powerlord (28156) | more than 13 years ago | (#837900)

I don't know if they will but I remember back when the Seamonkey project (Mozilla free browser) started they were talking about how bloated web browsers had become, and one of the goals was to produce a Web browser install that could fit on a single floppy disk. ... I miss that idea.

I work for a company in corporate america. I HAVE to use Lotus Notes for my e-mail/PIM. The company dictates IE as the 'standard' browser (although they have recently started to move away from this). I'm running windows at work becuase I don't have a choice, and I'm writting this on Netscape Navigator 4.08. Considering how many people like me there are out there (quite a few judging by those I've talked to), I would have thought a fast, small, standards complient browser would have been their first priority. Like it or not, alternative O.S.'s are not on the majority of end-user desktops, and most people don't need YAMA (Yet Another Mail Application).

Making it use proxies (2)

Serk (17156) | more than 13 years ago | (#837901)

Although there doesn't appear to be a place to setup proxies through the GUI, just go to the directory it's installed in, defaults\pref\all.js and edit the all.js file directly, putting in your proxy info as needed. Shutdown the browser and bring it back up, I'm writing this using KMeleon going through a corporate proxy right now.
If need be, you might want to open up a functional prefs.js from a working Netscape program for comparison.

This program is definitely still Beta, but it's showing a LOT of promise!

bummer (1)

stinky monkey (222818) | more than 13 years ago | (#837902)

Hey... there's no "edit-paste" on the menu, and I can't ctrl-v w/ it. was up wit dat? Oh wait.. it's a browser. Anyways.. shows up as Mozilla5.0/Gecko in server logs. No reference to K-Meleon. And it locks up when trying to type text and move the cursor within the box... Oh wait again... it's Windoze. My bad.

Re:standards? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#837903)

yah but its not part of any html standards, thats what he meant. i wrote an irc client, fully standards compliant , no proxy. i got emails daily saying until i put socks support in, they wouldn't use it. so next release , it had socks support. email this guy w/ your issue and politely request it. don't bitch here, because we don't care. at least i don't. a-hole.

Re:Galeon (2)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837904)

Too bad Galeon requires me to install all of GNOME as well. Not exactly unbloated if you don't use GNOME, is it? It even requires you to use the GNOME control panel to set such things as your mailer, and to have GNOME programs beyond the base GNOME libs, such as GTM (Gnome Transfer Manager, for downloads).

Isn't this the exact opposite of bloated? Would you rather we re-invent the wheel and implement all the necessary stuff ourselves? How, exactly, is it being bloated to use something like GTM for downloads instead of implementing our own half-assed download manager?

This is why non-GPL free licenses suck (1)

the-banker (169258) | more than 13 years ago | (#837905)

The author released this under the GPL, but he used Gecko from Mozilla, which I understand to be under the MPL. This from the FSF website (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/license-list.html).

"This is a free software license which is not a strong copyleft; unlike the X11 license, it has some complex restrictions that make it incompatible with the GNU GPL. That is, a module covered by the GPL and a module covered by the MPL cannot legally be linked together."

Granted, this is one interpretation. What this illustrates is the huge problem that is created by using a license such as MPL, QPL, etc...

We went through this with the QPL - recognition of that incompatibility has seemingly disappeared except for the Debian distrubtion. The license incompatibility still exists, however.

The bottom line is that Non-GPL'd software really causes some hairy licensing issues. At some point, these issues need to get resolved and some sort of education / standardization needs to take place.

Marc

Oh my god, I think I'm in love (2)

handorf (29768) | more than 13 years ago | (#837906)

This thing is so FAST! It's much faster than IE or Netscape (any versions) on my system. It's still got a few little things, but I'm betting those are from the renderer and not K-Meleon.

Why don't we have a web-browser than can render /. in 1 second already?

Well, I've got to try Galeon on my home system now.

THANK YOU!

A Kmeleon Mirror (1)

Xenex (97062) | more than 13 years ago | (#837907)

Thanks to the good ol' /. effect, you may have a few problems downloading it from there.

My friend Soc has chucked a mirror of the 2.85 meg installer up on his webpage The un-offical Top 20 to anything [unofficaltop20.com] .

Huge link at the top, you can't miss it.

Have fun :)

Re:Finally! (1)

Menthos (25332) | more than 13 years ago | (#837908)

Uh... Gecko is an engine, not a browser. And yes, Gecko does have a Windows port, after all, there is, and has almost always been, a Mozilla port for Windows.

Name? (2)

Dungeon Dweller (134014) | more than 13 years ago | (#837910)

No offense, but the name makes it sound like it's written for KDE. Perhaps a name that sounds more like it came from M$ is in order (no offense, just thought I could get some interesting suggestions).
(Heh, sorry M$, this joke had to be made).

Sinking Ship?

Well it looks good... (2)

MKalus (72765) | more than 13 years ago | (#837912)

....

I like it (I am using it right now to write this message). The interface is definetly nicer then the one from netscape 6.0..... But either Gecko still has some bugs or they are still working on it here... On userfriendly the page got "stuck" for a bit before it finished loading....

And as much as I hate to admit it, but I like the IE interface better then the netscape 6.0 interface, or is this just me?

Michael

Looks good (1)

Maori (218024) | more than 13 years ago | (#837914)

If it promises what I expect from the screenshots (currently downloading) it'll become my standard browser.

All the standards are supported, aren't they?

Maori

PS: Hm, but what about MathML and SVG? I'll look...

Windows? Which version? (1)

miguel_at_menino.com (89271) | more than 13 years ago | (#837915)

Can't get this to work on NT4

Which version of Windows is this for?

Perfect.. (2)

photozz (168291) | more than 13 years ago | (#837917)

Comming from a corporate enviorment where they block most usefull services through the firewall, a lite browser is just the thing. I hate installing a software package and getting a million diferent "features" that I don't use, and just clutters up the landscape.

Finally! (1)

EAVY (2121) | more than 13 years ago | (#837919)

Finally there's a Windows version of Gecko. I was quite excited about the Gecko project when I heard about it, but since it didn't have a Windows port, I am still using Netscape right now. I've been tempted to switch to Internet Explorer regularly, whenever a website didn't work properly, but I hesitated because I knew both browsers are too proprietary. Now that Gecko is out, I can finally switch to an open source and standards compliant webbrowser.

I think this is what Mozilla should have done, instead of continuing to work on their big project, they should first have released such a light-weight stand-alone browser. I'm not saying the rest is bloat, not at all, and I'm faithfully waiting for Mozilla's public release. But until then, Netscape keeps sucking, and Internet Explorer keeps expanding. The first step should have been to provide a working browser, fully standards-compliant, and after that the rest could follow.

Thanks to open source development, someone else was able to do it. One thing I'd like to say is that open source development is very ambitious. But to come out of the obscurity, something has to be released to the public, a working version with all features ready. I've tried Mozilla's preview releases, but what I need right now is just a browser. Once such a browser is done, people could start to use it, and spread it around. Then, while the user base is constantly growing, the rest of the project could be implemented. Otherwise it's too little, too late. It's better to have something, and early.

just dled it... (1)

kennedy (18142) | more than 13 years ago | (#837921)

well here i am at work forced behind a winNT workstation, so i downloaded this.

i have to say i'm super impressed. Ultra fast page loads. give it a try if you're using win

Re:browsers & browsers (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 13 years ago | (#837927)

Foolish, foolish boy. The correct link is here [sourceforge.net]

wrong link (slaps forehead) (1)

TheDullBlade (28998) | more than 13 years ago | (#837928)

http://www.clock.org/~fair/opinion/javascript-is-e vil.htmlJavascript is evil. ECMAscript is just JavaScript.

---
Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.

Re:browsers & browsers (1)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837931)

dum de dum... your link is broken.

And galeon does support javascript, through Mozilla of course. Java applets are a different story.

Re:Ugh, license issues revisited (1)

ct.smith (80232) | more than 13 years ago | (#837934)

Not sure (I'm not a liscence expert), but at the least, I know it is not possible to distribute the MFC code, only the binaries. If there is ANY static linking in the download (which is very likely) then he is distributing a binary that can't be GPL'd. OTOH, I think the code that makes calls to the MFC libs might be OK.

However, this still doesn't address the issue that GPL code is linked to non-GPL coed (according to RMS, that's bad).

Also, there is still the use of the MS artwork used for the buttons. Not sure what liscencing covers theses.

Re:That's it! (1)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 13 years ago | (#837936)

What the hell is everyone talking about? Yes, Mozilla takes longer to start up than Navigator 4, but it's fast as hell once it's running and looks beautiful. Something tells me it's a helluva lot less bloated than IE and Navigator. Anyone have any information as to why the startup time is so long?

Email me.
Don't trust anyone over 90000.

Unimpressed. (1)

suss (158993) | more than 13 years ago | (#837937)

I'm rather unimpressed. It's twice the download size of Opera and a *LOT* slower. Too bad the Opera site seems to be down or i'd have put a link up for it...

Re:Taking note? (2)

Psiren (6145) | more than 13 years ago | (#837938)

Actually I think the only reason it appaears to be slow is because it uses so much memory, thereby pushing your machine into swap. This is certainly whats happening with me. I don't care what anyone says, 25 Meg for a single program is a huge amount of memory to use. 40.5% of memory is what top is reporting, which is twice as much as X itself. I really like Mozilla, and think it has some neat features, but damn they need to reduce the memory it uses.

Wow! (1)

GavK (58709) | more than 13 years ago | (#837939)

Does this mean there's actually a shipping product from Mozilla?

Not bad, how many years late?

Ugh, license issues revisited (3)

nd (20186) | more than 13 years ago | (#837941)

Well, I feel sorry for the guy who developed this. As a Galeon developer I realize the pain he's about to endure.

Well, besides the fact that he calls the "GPL" the "GNU private license", he has licensed it under that while at the same time distributing included MPLed Mozilla files. I'm still not a license expert, but this seems like bigtime violation to me (even more than we did with Galeon :)).

More to come later when I re-check my facts.

GNU private license? (1)

theHippo (28682) | more than 13 years ago | (#837943)

Okay, we've had more new open source licenses than raindrops recently, but what exactly is the GNU private license that K-meleon is released under?

A typo I guess, but its funny because this typo is exactly the opposite of what RMS preaches ;)

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (2)

Darth Yoshi (91228) | more than 13 years ago | (#837944)

Ummmm, K-Meleon people? Person is more like it. Christophe Thibault was bored last Sunday and threw K-Meleon together in one day. The source code is available and people are encouraged add their favorite features.

Re:Windows? Which version? (1)

ShadowBlade (215) | more than 13 years ago | (#837947)

Ditto.

Re:AAAGGHGHGHGHHH (1)

Evangelion (2145) | more than 13 years ago | (#837948)


K-Meleon has nothing to do with KDE, as you seem to be confused.


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