Direct3D Applications And Wine 242
Vesuri writes "TransGaming Technologies has released a patch for Wine which makes it possible to run Direct3D applications under Wine. I ran 3DMark2000 and I was impressed - it really DOES work like they promised. It's not perfect but it's a really good start!"
Re:Direct3D port could be bad for Linux... (Score:2)
Re:wow (Score:1)
Total troll question, but I'll still bite:
Now, I hope that was enough for you, but if it's not, perhaps you could alter the terms of yor challenge slightly to make it impossible for me to rise up to it?
MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert) (Score:3)
Are you kidding? The solitaires available on Gnome at least are vastly better than the ones on Windows. The low quality of the graphics on Windows card games is always a bit of a shock to me on the rare occasions when I reboot into Windows. Plus Aisleriot has about a zillion solitaire variations beyond what's available in Windows solitaire. Built in games are one of the few areas where the common Linux desktops have a clear advantage that even diehard Windows users are willing to admit.
Re:The voting page is a little strange... (Score:1)
Time to cast your vote..........
Re:Finally (Score:2)
> permissions to delegate who gets to install and operate games, my task as home sysop becomes much simpler.
You can do this with Windows 2000, which I'd imagine would run DirectX games much faster and less buggier than Linux with WINE would.
Win the Battle, or Win the War? (Score:3)
Exactly. We have to stop focussing on the current battle (Windows versus Linux) and focus on the war (Microsoft versus Open Source). Look, when the press reports on gaming sales, they're going to say:
Windows 75 percent
Mac 5 percent
Linux 10 percent
Other 10 percent
And that Linux portion may be half Wine and half native Linux.
I know we would all prefer native code, but we have to get mindshare first. Or else noone will develop for Linux, or consider doing so.
Because, face it, we all want to play The Sims - and I'd rather buy the Linux-compatible version than the Windows version, if you get my drift.
The voting page is a little strange... (Score:3)
Half-Life and its derivatives are high on the list. I agree 100%. But so are:
Unreal Tournament (ported by Loki, free download)
Quake 3 Arena Quake 3 Team Arena (The team addon will upgrade the Linux version)
Starcraft (has run under wine for some time)
I just can't see why Linux users would vote for these (I guess that they do not know that they work under Linux?)
If you like Linux and you like gaming, you should check out Linuxgames [linuxgames.com] now and again. You will be surprised at what you find.
(Now someone is going to argue a point on those games, but I see it as a waste of time to fix something that is not broken. Unreal Tournament for Linux will run faster on Linux than Unreal Tournament for Windows through Wine on Linux any day.)
Running IE on Wine is illegal (Score:5)
tried IE
Didn't you read the license for IE when you installed it?
This is another way IE is tied to the OS.Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]
Comment removed (Score:4)
Re:Good news! (Score:3)
But... but... NetHack [nethack.org] already works. Who needs anything else?
Seriously, though, Linux does have a number of games:
That being said, I do agree that Direct3D support in Wine is A Good Thing (except for the possibility that it decreases the likelyhood of true Linux ports). But don't sell Linux short.
(Random "It probably won't work, but..." thought: Running a WinCE Dreamcast game under WINE running on Linux on a Dreamcast. That'd be cool. Useless and probably impossible, but cool none-the-less.)
License abuse! (Score:2)
This is the biggest problem with the BSD license: it gives freedom, but does not require freedom in exchange, and thus cool new additions often have restrictive licenses. With the GPL everything remains under the GPL. With the BSD license, here is one license fork in Wine already, and more will follow. The Wine folks originally chose the BSD license to make it easier to link commercial applications against Wine libraries. These days we have the LGPL which makes it just as easy to link vertical applications against a GPL-ed infrastructure. These days there is really no reason to not use the GPL/LGPL combo - if you goal is to build a truly open-source project that *stays* open-source.
Re:Direct3D port could be bad for Linux... (Score:4)
When these people make their jump complete, they will buy Linux software for the platform, as a matter of course. Hence Loki will benefit.
Its a bit like the PSXII benefiting from having full PSX emulation. People will migrate because of WINE, but when they get there they will buy ported programs as a preference.
KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.
Re:A good start (Score:3)
You have Windows.
I built mine from parts. I don't have Windows.
2. Windows has a GUI that is easy to use because it has been developed in conjunction with literally millions of beta testers and focus groups.
I'll grant this one. Though I'm partial to CLI's myself. Except for games
3. Windows runs these games faster, and necessarily always will - emulation has to be slower, because there's two layers.
WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an alternate implementation of Win32. There is not an extra layer, and if it were written well, it could be faster (not likely, though).
4. Windows runs the games easier than WINE - you don't have to compile Windows for your PC like you do with Wine (you can get pre-built builds, but they don't work as well).
Granted.
5. For WINE to work usably, you are required to have Windows on your PC (true: all those shots of Word running on Linux only happen because Linux is using the dlls and vxds)
I'm not as sure about that. I installed and ran Starcraft under WINE about a year ago, and it was playable. IIRC, I didn't have Windows on the machine at all.
It is a good start. If I could play games without having to buy a copy of Windows or waste hard drive space and my precious sanity on it, I would be quite happy. If that is what you want, cool, but I want it.
I don't have Windows (Score:3)
Why pay for what I don't want and will never use?
And lately, the cost of Windows has been a signifigant portion of the cost of the PC. Hardware keeps getting cheaper. Windows is the same price as it ever was. Specifying "no windows" has changed from a political statement to a real cost savings.
And as Wine approaches actual usability, soon I'll be able to have both my OS of choice _and_ still get access to the software I need. Win win win.
Re:Eh-hem. (Score:2)
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
Re:I Object (Score:2)
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Guillaume
Re:Running IE on Wine is illegal (Score:2)
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
Of course, what do I know, I still prefer the old click anywhere on the desktop instead of actually dragging your cursor all the way over to the bottom left, and then only if it isn't obscured...
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
WINE != Emulator (Score:5)
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Compensate which developers? (Score:2)
"Bribe us to release our new source" models are really a shareware transition right back to closed source private code ownership.
Re:Running IE on Wine is illegal (Score:2)
Otherwise you've paid the retail price ($0), you have fair use rights.
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Keep attacking good things as "communist"
Without looking... (Score:2)
But then I'm being lazy and not checking any of this so I can't say I'm any better than the people voting for this stuff.
Now the only hting that's left... (Score:5)
Good news! (Score:2)
Re:wow (Score:2)
Now why on earth would anyone want to do that? Please name for me one Linux application that does not have a superior Windows-based counterpart. You can't and there aren't.
Warning... (Score:4)
Re:I Object (Score:3)
If someone wants to develop it, all power to them, but one of the the beauties of Linux is that you don't need to install the GUI to manage your webserver.
Re:A good start (Score:3)
Can't find my copy. All I see is a bunch of RedHat 6.2 CDs with my Dell.
You have windows
No really, I can't find it... All I see is RedHat stuff.
2. Windows has a GUI that is easy to use because it has been developed in conjunction with literally millions of beta testers and focus groups.
I find it odd that not one user in these focus groups got annoyed with the fact that they couldn't move or iconize or move a window if the application owning the window was busy. Are you really SURE they did that, I just don't see it.
3. Windows runs these games faster, and necessarily always will - emulation has to be slower, because there's two layers
WINE is a recursive algorithm for "Wine Is Not an Emulator." It's NOT an emulator. It's an implementation of Win32 libs on x86 Linux boxes. Wine can even use Windows DLLs, so it is running the same stuff.
4. Windows runs the games easier than WINE - you don't have to compile Windows for your PC like you do with Wine (you can get pre-built builds, but they don't work as well).
Uh, Wine 1.0 isn't out yet. I've only used pre-built versions, and have had good results.
5. For WINE to work usably, you are required to have Windows on your PC (true: all those shots of Word running on Linux only happen because Linux is using the dlls and vxds)
All my experiments with Wine have not involved Windows DLLs. It ran quite a number of applications and installers with no problems, and this was more than six months ago.
As for Word though, keep in mind what atrocities Word does to a system... Word reinstalls hundreds of DLLs on a Windows machine. It breaks Microsoft's own "regulations" for software installation. How is this therefore a valid example of why I shouldn't try to run Windows games on my Linux box?
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Re:Now the only hting that's left... (Score:2)
Maybe I'm just slow... Please explain the difference for me?
OK,
- B
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Re:Why? (Score:2)
The same point as masturbation. It's fun. (Although many here would probably dispute this.)
It's even good. (Although probably even more would dispute this.)
To continue the analogy to Wine, it's much to be preferred to all of the trouble from females, no blue screens, etc. (Although many here would dispute this.)
Well, maybe analogies can be carried one step too far. Ignore the third point if so inclined. Reread the first two points.
Re:Now the only hting that's left... (Score:2)
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Re:wow (Score:2)
Windows 2000 has a talk program.
You can reconfigure the command line to your liking (I did with some 3rd-party free utilities).
Name me one package manager in Linux that doesn't occasionally fuck EVERYTHING up?
Playing 3DMark2K (Score:2)
Re:WINE != Emulator (Score:2)
Re:Running IE on Wine is illegal (Score:5)
So you only need to have the EULA? You don't need to agree to it, or have Windows installed, or even own a copy of Windows? Just need to be in possession of the EULA?
Sounds like running IE on Wine is perfectly legal. You just need a friend who runs Windows, and a photocopier =)
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Re:wow (Score:2)
Ha Ha! Get a load of this: (Score:2)
This aught to kill you:
One for gaming, [envador.com]
one for toughness, [optusnet.com.au]
one for boredom, [pccase.com]
and there must be thousands for looks
Kind of cool to think the software can be just as custom. Nothings dead here.
Uhm, Cool, but for D3D7 or D3D8 ? (Score:2)
The Good:
More games can be played under Linux. That's good.
Aside. You know what's funny
The Bad:
Hopefully this won't fuel the fire for game developers to just develop for D3D, if they don't even have to recompile to run the game under Linux.
(I'm still a little upset ot my fellow game developers for not using OpenGL. Hmm, one API, different platform, potential for more sales. But, NOOO, we must use Direct3D, and be locked into Windows. Granted its 99% of the games market, but if no-one develops games for other OS's, they can't buy games for those other OS's.)
The Ugly:
It sucks that we need "hacks" like this, to play the more popular games under something not Windows.
Still a cool util.
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Re:Direct3D port could be bad for Linux... (Score:2)
A similar question was asked about emulation on the Mac - many were afraid that Windows emulation and Playstation emulation would keep games from being ported. In the end, it didn't make a difference - an increasing number of games are being ported to the Mac, despite emulation products.
Setting aside the probability that emulation will usually be slower than a native port, people will still favor native applications because they'll be easier to work with. The interface will be more like what they're used to on their native platform, and they won't have to do anything special to run the native software. Emulation is good for accessing applications and games you can't normally use on your system, but won't be favored by most users. Native ports are in no danger of losing significant sales to emulators.
Re:why dont they release it with the wine source? (Score:2)
Transgaming appears to have some different plans as far as how they're going to be recompensed for their development efforts. Some of their code is available, some is not, and according to their web site they're going to start selling subscriptions (at $5/month) to allow people to vote on which games they try to get working first. It's a novel idea, I hope they have some success with it. The screenshots looked great!
Re:I Object (Score:2)
Not that there haven't been enough wasted keystrokes in Vi/Emacs flamewars to make up for it 8^)
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Re:wow (Score:2)
To be honest with you, I would prefer Linux for a web/file server, but the article does not discuss Linux for this purpose, the point of the article was to discuss the merits of Linux, with a focus on WINE, as a desktop/gaming system. One day, Linux may become a valid option for such a system, but unless you *really* like solitare and limited functionality, that day is a few years off at best.
Re:The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (Score:2)
That is a very interesting point. Very true.
The idea at hand is that Linux Gaming will suffer if 'we' make it easy to run DX games on Linux... but just to Fsck w/ Microsoft's 'shit' why cant our developers do a little 'extending' ourselves and add some 'commonly missing' API or just a little extending... if 'we' 'openly' do that whats to say 'we' cant get some DX developer interest and try tickling their interest.
I know its 'evil' and a trait of The Devil(Tm) but why not do it, make it very well know, document it, and propose that M$ 'open'the DX API to allow cross platform development/adoption... if 'we' do this it would force Microsoft to take the position 'we are the only ones who will define the DX API no matter what you want'...
The Best Case:
M$ Creates a OpenDX group.
The Worst Case:
M$ Looks like assholes (again) and Linux Zealots get a giggle.
Re:cool. (Score:2)
A lot of games are requiring Windows 95 ends up requiring 95B or 95C (with new Tcp/Ip stack) which forces a lot of people to go with 98 anyway.
Still, if you're arguing that you can buy a used copy of Windows, nothing stops you from buying used copies of GAMES.
You're not making a fair comparison.
Re:wow (Score:2)
damn (Score:5)
________
nobody understands WINE (Score:3)
I've been following WINE's development for years now, and every time a WINE article gets published here, the bone-heads come out of the woodwork to to express their feeling that WINE is somehow bad for Linux.
Three years ago, when WINE allowed me to run Remedy Action User client (it's the front-end to our trouble-ticket system) so I didn't have to boot into windows at work at all, that was somehow a bad thing? When WINE allows me to run Excel so I can hand in my expense reports using the spreadsheet the corporate Microserfs designed, that's a bad thing?
The ridiculous arguments aside about WINE keeping linux ports from happening, what about a game released a few months ago. There will never be linux ports of games released more than a few months ago unless the company GPL's it. (Not very likely in most cases.)
So, the naysayers don't want to play any older games (or other apps) they've invested in, in hopes that by not having that ability (let alone the ability to play new games) that companies will do native ports? Absurd.
Here's my favorite bit: WINE has two parts to it. The first bit (which everyone thinks is the only thing to WINE) is the program loader. This allows you to run MS binaries. The real heart of WINE is winelib. winelib is a port of the windows API's to linux. Programs compiled against this are Linux programs, period! They could be packaged as RPMS, debs, or tarballs. WINE is as much (or more) a tool for porting applications to linux as it is an emulator!
So when the complaints come out about WINE hindering linux ports, I almost can't help but cry. The WINE hackers are busting their proverbial hump making Linux ports of windows software possible, and easy, and slashdot users are flaming them for trying!
*whew*
Re:wow (Score:2)
As long as you don't "need" to do high end image editing, playback or edit more than a few obsolete video codecs, use a USB or IEEE-1394 device, use the latest video cards, use a professional word processor or spreadsheet suite or play *good* games it should do just about anything you'd need, right?
topic was WINE with no H (Score:2)
Re:Good news! (Score:3)
Too bad VMWare uses its' own display driver, and cannot access display hardware like 3d chips, Mpeg decoders, etc. Gaming is not very doable.
The problem with Photoshop is VMWare's lack of support for ICC profiles, so you can end up modifying an image with the colors that look fine in VMWare mode, but crappy in Windows-native mode.
Hopefully, WINE will be the answer. I know there are serious advantages to running VMWare over WINE, but they're not advantages *TO ME*.
The funny thing is, I almost always end up playing MAME or Quake when I'm in Windows. So I guess I really don't need to play Win games in Linux after all... except maybe GTA2.....
Think twice before buying Photoshop (Score:2)
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]
Re:Does it work with Starcraft? (Score:2)
has a database [winehq.com] of what applications have been tested and what results they got.
The Tick - "Spoon!"
NEO - "There is no spoon."
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:3)
click on the K or Foot menus and they are right there under games. Much eaiser to find than by going to Start-Programs-Accessories-Games
It's easier to click on the K or Foot rather than Start? And /.ers
wonder why they say Linux isn't ready for the desktop...
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Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
Bill - aka taniwha
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Re:Is wine good for linux? (Score:5)
Re:Is wine good for linux? (Score:2)
Personally, I'd rather have WINE working good enough to play all the windows games than trying to convince all the developers that Linux is a good gaming platform.
Re:Running IE on Wine is illegal (Score:2)
I wonder if the Solaris or HP-UX editions of IE4 had something similar in their EULAs?
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
Obviously MicroSoft then adjusted the expected level of intelligence of their users and changed the game to a more appropriate one.
Re:Does it work with Starcraft? (Score:2)
Re:wow (Score:2)
The only OS available right now that really does comparmentalization right is the GNU HURD (which, of course, has other problems). End-users, even, can safely develop drivers on The HURD without impacting others on their machine.
My point here is that an OS really can keep even bad drivers from screwing stuff up. Thus, while MS may not be responsible for the content of a driver from some other vendor, they should be capable of stopping that driver from BSODing the box.
(Linux, FYI, doesn't handle compartmentalization correctly in many situations, which is why I'm not using it here).
Re:The voting page is a little strange... (Score:2)
>these (I guess that they do not know that they >work under Linux?)
Maybe a lot of them already have bought the Windows version (perhaps before they converted to Linux!), and can't bother themselves to pay for the game twice?
Maybe those games are what keeps them from eradicating Windows from their hard drives?
Anyhow, all we see there is just a -=>ranking=-.
The game at 2nd place might actually get only 5% of the votes the top dog have got. These situations appear almost weekly on your local box office rankings...
Mouseusage (Score:2)
In addition, I would like to argue that keyboard support is an area where most widgetsets for X sucks - most X programs are unusable from the keyboard! As a _small_ example: There is no key in Gtk+-apps for reaching the menubar. You can reach an item in it if that item has a shortcut, and then move among them with the arrow keys, but there is no general shortcut that allways brings you to the first menubar item (Normally the File menu, so ALT+F should work in most places, but not _allways_)... And there are worse examples.
M$ Winblows _is_ usable without a mouse. A graphical Linux workstation is not (How to you start a shell if you get a GDM and then a stupid window-manager with too little keyboard support? How do you click links in Netscape/Mozilla from the keyboard??).
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
Re:why dont they release it with the wine source? (Score:3)
treke
Re:A good start (Score:3)
Well.. that's not entirely accurate. Wine aims to be an second implementation of the Win32 API. This means that the overhead over using microsofts implementation only depends on the quality of the wine code (if the wine people write tighter code than the ms guys, wine wins). However, wine can use native win32 dll files, as a fallback for running unsupported api calls (that of course, isnt the only thing it needs dll support for). That's probably what you're talking about.
But the big thing about wine isn't it's binary compability with Win32, it's source compability. Soon all win32 apps will run nativly on linux, only depending on X and the wine libs after a simple recompile and a few tweaks (hopefully).
-henrik
Finally (Score:2)
For those of you who have kids who get software for Christmas, you'll share my enthusiasm for this move forward. Nearly all of the latest software, educational and shoot-'em-ups, have been written with DirectX.
I understand the concern of those who would like to see everything written under OpenGL. The lack of use may see the library fall by the wayside, regardless of its superiority in providing a platform independent outlet. But I'm looking at this as a father who has to administer three Winboxes that are being operated by children ages 13 and under. The workload in keeping these systems up and running is amazing.
If this works as advertised, then I am dumping Win9x from my kid's computers and installing Linux. Since I can use permissions to delegate who gets to install and operate games, my task as home sysop becomes much simpler.
Until the game shops start using OpenGL, any help in using DirectX under Linux is manna from heaven.
Re:A good start (Score:2)
WINE is a recursive algorithm for "Wine Is Not an Emulator. (bold mine)
And Im sure algorithm is an acronym to Association of Lesbian and Gay Owners from the Rochester Institute of Technology for Healthcare Management
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Re:Killer Applications (Score:2)
Re:damn (Score:2)
Re:Embrace and extend (Score:2)
If Wine DirectX did something useful with some argument values that did not do the right thing on Windows, it is likely that game writers might even #ifdef LINUX these calls in and improve the game on Linux, and also be a big embarrassment to MicroSoft, who would eventually be forced to copy the Wine-invented interface.
Direct3D port could be bad for Linux... (Score:2)
If I can run quake via Wine, why would I run Loki's version?
Re:Now the only hting that's left... (Score:2)
Re:I Object (Score:2)
if GUIs were designed better then the mouse wouldn't be quite as useless. [asktog.com]
(i bet you all thought that was a goatse.cx link, didn't you?)
- j
Re:The voting page is a little strange... (Score:2)
Agreed, except you can get the Binaries for Quake 3 and for Unreal Tournament for Linux for free. They are avalible for download, so you can use your windows versions.
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (Score:2)
More games can be played under Linux. That's good.
Aside. You know what's funny
Except, whereas MSFT uses Embrace and Extend(TM), we use Embrace and Assimilate(GPL)
Is wine good for linux? (Score:2)
CEO: So the release date of Mega War 2 is due on the 15th of November. Is everything going to our timeframe?
Lacky: Yessir, but are we going to allow a linux port of this game? The linux community has a lot of gammers in it and they would love this type of game.
CEO: (thinks) No, I don't think we need to waste time training our programmers on the linux style. They have that wine thingy, if they want to play our game they can just buy the windows version and play it that way. Becides, if they have problems we can just tell them to play it on windows. Easy tech support.
So really, does wine help us in the linux community? I'd love to play halflife: counterstrike under linux as much as the next guy, but are we cutting our throats really? Why would some company spend extra money to bring it over here (or allow someone like loki to see the source code) when they can just write once and be done?
Re:Good news! (Score:2)
Why? (Score:4)
I'm a rather avid gamer, and I'm quite fond of Linux -- but I can't fathom a single, rational reason to run Direct3D games under Wine on Linux.
Now, irrational reasons may exist. For example, a virualent hatred of all things Microsoft might lead someone to run already-unstable games (every DirectX game has hardware and driver compatability problems) through emulators...
Is any serious gaming enthuiast going to give up their Wintel box to run an emulator under Linux? I doubt it.
So what is the point of this technological exercise -- other that to prove that you can run DirectX under Wine?
--
Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Re:wow (Score:2)
Re:I Object (Score:2)
Clicking that "U" is such a resource hog!
Anybody who has used computers for any length of time at all knows that keyboard shortcuts are much faster than navigating a mouse up to click a button. That's why all decent software, and even crappy software made by MS, still has lots and lots of keyboard shortcuts available.
Clicky little buttons are for neophytes and grandmothers. Real computer users rarely touch the mouse. Do you actually take the time to move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, then move the mouse carefully up to click the little disk icon? What a waste! :w ENTER' anyday, thank you.
I'll take 'ESC
Re:A good start (Score:2)
Yeah, that "a better windows than windows" strategy worked out real well for the OS/2 crowd.
Re:Now the only hting that's left... (Score:3)
Re:License abuse! (Score:2)
You mispelled "feature".
Re:Is wine good for linux? (Score:5)
A significant part of the wine development is on winelib, which allows windows applications to be compiled on linux, bsd or pretty much any unix for i386. There is also work on porting winelib to sparc systems.
RTFM people WineLib Users Guide [codeweavers.com]
I fail to see how this capability would take any support away from porting applications.
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
Rich
Killer Applications (Score:5)
Re:Direct3D port could be bad for Linux... (Score:2)
Re:MCSE (Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expe (Score:2)
That's precisely what makes it difficult. I could click on the kbutton, but I could slo click on the desktop button, the shortcut for XMMS, Konqueror, or many other things. Perhaps a tutorial started the first time a user logs in would be appropriate, identiftying the diferent pieces of the desktop. And turnable off, of course.
Re:A good start (Score:2)
3. Windows runs these games faster, and necessarily always will - emulation has to be slower, because there's two layers.
If you know anything about WINE, you'll know that WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator.
It is not emulating, but rather using actual windows libraries through some sort of abstration layer.
Read though the WINE docs some time, they are doing some amazing things to get it to work. With the addition to D3d (did you see the fps they were getting?!), porting games to Linux will be so easy. Not to meantion FreeBSD...
Embrace and extend: Should WINE be better than Win (Score:2)
A very intriguing idea. If it is a fix to something that leaks like a sieve or that drops mouse turds or something, that sounds like a very good concept. But I'd be very careful with it, as some code may rely on aberrant behaviour.
Re:damn (Score:2)
Re:wow (Score:2)
Although some hack to run a Linux binary on Windows would be interesting, it hardly is useful, as all the good Linux programs have the source and can be compiled on NT, perhaps with the help of some compatability libraries like Cygwin.
Such libraries like Cygwin are the "Wine-like tool for using Linux apps under Windows".
There are examples of programs that are better on Linux: command line programs like the GNU utilities and shells (where I work we could not live without the port of tcsh to NT). Terminal emulators are WAY better on Linux than the built-in one on NT. In graphics only small hack programs are better on Linux, gdiff and network monitoring programs are good examples.
Certainly most of the good stuff has been ported to NT. The only big missing thing is good terminal emulators, but there may be issues with how NT does it's stdio that make this impossible? With the death of Motif I would expect any useful graphics hack on Linux to use a modern toolkit or just Xlib and be portable.
The other killer app is window managers, but not because of that crufty huge "themes". I would very much like to see Windoze fixed so that it does not raise windows when you click on their contents, so that working with overlapping windows was possible. This may be better considered a fix in Windows, besides Linux seems to be going down the same bad road by forcing us to use the KDE or similar window managers, which have the same bugs Windows does...
No. (Score:2)
No. They are not running WINE as a matter of course. WINE is highly beta, even the Transgaming and Codeweavers version 2 editions are still highly pront to crashing and run less than five percent of Windows applications, and that's a optimistic guess. Currently., managed mdoe is not the default on most versions, the WINE team themsleves don't usually produce binary crashes, and the `building font metrics' three minute wait to start an application still doesn't go away under the codeweavers version.
Yes, WINE will improve significantly over the next year as it actually starts providing more user feedback, testing guideliens and desktop integration. No, IMHO there's no way that within th4e next year newbies will be running WINE. Sorry. Its a a gargantuan task,,and the WINE folk are brave to attempt it, but my honest vide is I think they will fail, and this DirectX code will be more beneficial once it is merged into SDL.
I do a lot of WINE hacking, egnerally iupdate and run with everyt release, and have got Office 2000 and various opther apps working fine. But never a hundred percent, and always lacking some important functionality.
However, using Wine wrappers around Win32 DLLs is something WINE has definitely been sucessful at. The Open Source implementation of the Win32 avifile implementation has been a success and enabled formats like ASF1 and DivX
I Object (Score:4)
As a long time Linux user, I strenuously object to this direction for my preferred OS. My Linux box is not a toy, and it shouldn't be used as such!
Linux has succeeded so well because of (until recently) the complete lack of frivolous chrome that bogged down other once-noble systems like DOS. I grudgingly accepted a simple window manager as an occassionally useful tool, but knew full well that some people would get totally carried away with it and force these resource-hog abominations on us like KDE, Gnome and TWM. Serious computing is done with the command line, OK?
It's only gone downhill since that first X server started working with Linux. I've never liked the idea of Wine to begin with. I mean, who the hell wants to run some windoze app on something like Linux? What the hell is the point in that? You know why people do it? Because they're too stupid to learn Emacs or Vi and they need they're precious Word!
Look, people, Linux is a serious tool for people doing serious work. If you can't figure out how to use it then stay the hell away from it and stop trying to corrupt it with your damn eye candy!
I can't believe people have polluted Linux with some Microso~ game API. The Linux we have all come to know and love is dying, and I think it is an absolute shame.
Re:Mouseusage (Score:2)
Re:Is wine good for linux? (Score:2)
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
It's not an emulator; it's cheaper. (Score:2)
Windows is free with PCs. You have Windows.
The version of Wintendo that comes with store-bought PCs runs everything as root, providing no real memory protection. A Windows license is often the most expensive part of a PC built from parts, costing upwards of US$300 [microsoft.com] per box.
Windows has a GUI that is easy to use because it has been developed in conjunction with literally millions of beta testers and focus groups.
Mac OS has an even better GUI than Windows's, so why aren't people using Macintosh computers?
emulation has to be slower, because there's two layers.
Wine Is Not an Emulator. The layered structure of a Wine system is similar to that of a Windows 2000 system: application on top of Win32 on top of the kernel.
you don't have to compile Windows for your PC like you do with Wine (you can get pre-built builds, but they don't work as well).
Which means you can't recompile Windows to create a system optimized for your CPU's pipelines. (AFAIK, Windows 9x is still optimized for a 486.)
For WINE to work usably, you are required to have Windows on your PC (true: all those shots of Word running on Linux only happen because Linux is using the dlls and vxds)
This is partially rebutted by your first point. Wine with the Windows 98 DLLs can be more stable than Windows 98 itself because of the protection that the underlying system provides. Even then, you don't need to use Word; you can use Emacs and LaTeX, and your output may even look better.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]
How about Mac software? (Score:2)
So it isn't the emulation issue that seems to stop the games (though admittedly the performance of x86 on PowerPC isn't very hot either)
Louis
Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]
Re:Uhm, Cool, but for D3D7 or D3D8 ? (Score:2)
There is a VESA 3 (Score:2)
What ever happened to the VESA video card standards? Its about time we get a VESA3 out folks, as it is though, few new cards are even VESA2 complient
There already is VESA 3 VBE/AF; here's a few free VBE/AF drivers [demon.co.uk], and here are some you have to pay for [scitechsoft.com].
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]