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Mozilla 0.9 Out

CmdrTaco posted more than 13 years ago | from the download-compile-reboot-repeat dept.

Mozilla 448

Malicose writes: "Mozilla 0.9 is out. Improvements include Automatic Proxy Configuration, Personal Security Manager 2.0 with improved performance and UI, and rewritten from scratch image rendering library." Someday this may very well be the best browser in the world. I write this in konqueror, and hope Moz 0.9 uses half the RAM and is twice as fast and convinces me to switch back.

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Re:Half the ram and twice as fast? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#239153)

Don't add up the processes.

Notice the 0.9, meaning its pre-release, so leaking memory is acceptable.

Re:Didn't mention that... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#239154)

libpr0n has been a part of mozilla since 0.8

Re:There is _no_ reason to stick with Netscape (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#239155)

bad memory could make it crash when it is loading components.

Wow. (1)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 13 years ago | (#239162)

All it needs is bootstrap code and an "auto-fellate" plugin, and I hear they're working on the latter...

Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

Re:Prediction of posts here: (2)

Enahs (1606) | more than 13 years ago | (#239174)

You're also forgetting the "They should give up because IE is the best; why NS tries to compete with IE I'll never know, and Windows 2K never crashes for me" trolls.

Re:slightly ontopic (1)

evand (2571) | more than 13 years ago | (#239178)

Yeah, it sounds like someone is forging their agent headers.

Mozilla bashing. (2)

Zapman (2662) | more than 13 years ago | (#239179)

It's free (libre and gratis) software.
It's multi platform (something konq will never be (and should never be)).


I've only tried it on this linux box (amd 700, 128 megs) but it seems really fast. After clicking around a good bit, it's using some ram, but significantly less than X (according to top, which is known to lie without shame, particularly with memory).

Try it. You'll like it. And if you don't, try konq, or better yet, help the developers make it (either one) better. Even if you just submit bug reports, it helps greatly.

Re:30mb... not likely (1)

Thrakkerzog (7580) | more than 13 years ago | (#239197)

Gee, I can write a very small program that can take up more than 30 mb of ram.

You can't compare disk space to memory. Apples and oranges. They're both fruit, but that is about it.

-- Thrakkerzog

Re:Mozilla bashing. (1)

Thrakkerzog (7580) | more than 13 years ago | (#239198)

You would be surprised by how konq could be multi-platform.

Well, not konq, per se, but khtml, the html renderer. Kurt Skauen, the guy who is writing Atheos ported khtml to atheos in a matter of hours. ( http://www.atheos.cx/abrowse1.png [atheos.cx] ) for a screenie)

Keep in mind that Atheos uses its own GUI toolkit, built into the OS. The point is that khtml is clean code, and can easily be ported.
-- Thrakkerzog

Re:There is _no_ reason to stick with Netscape (2)

Thrakkerzog (7580) | more than 13 years ago | (#239202)

there is java support.

Javascript support is pretty good too. Not everything is supported with javascript, but most is.

It gets better by the day.

-- Thrakkerzog

Ahh! It works! (1)

mattkime (8466) | more than 13 years ago | (#239210)

....i'm writing this under Mozilla 0.9 for the Mac and its FAST! Maybe I'll find something to complain about after a while, but right now, its sweet!

Re:lib pr0n (3)

hexix (9514) | more than 13 years ago | (#239211)

Yeah, its called libpr0n, although then its called something else for the public, imglib2 or something?

I think they should have just stuck with libpr0n for the public too, anyone who would find that distasteful probably wouldn't even know what pr0n refers to to get the joke anyways. They'd just think it was some computer mumbo-jumbo.

Re:Why i'm still not switching... (1)

banky (9941) | more than 13 years ago | (#239212)

I just skanked it, before the /. effect took hold. Gotta tell you, it loaded *faster* that Netscape on my PIII/500. I had just typed mozilla & and scooted my chair back to go get a Coke, figuring it would still be loading by the time I got back, and it popped up. Note that this is a busy desktop: xmms, a gazillion xterms and gvim windows, etc etc.

Perhaps these results are far from typical, but if it keeps up, I'm going to remove Netscape once and for all.

Re:Half the ram and twice as fast? (2)

LWolenczak (10527) | more than 13 years ago | (#239215)

I'm using a ver that was built back in febuary... I have like 192 megs of ram, plus 30 megs of swap in use at the moment... and mozilla is only using at most 20% of memory... thats after its been up for two or three days, with atleast two windows at any given time.

Re:Mozilla bashing. (3)

MSG (12810) | more than 13 years ago | (#239224)

(according to top, which is known to lie without shame, particularly with memory)

I _do_ wish people would stop saying that. 'top' does NOT lie. Users just don't understand what it's telling them. Your misunderstanding doesn't constitute a lie. The "SIZE" column displays the total size of _everything_ the process is using, including memory on the card that the X server has mmap()'d. If you want to see how much of your system memory is used, use 'ps' and look at the RSS column.

Re:Why I've given up in Mozilla (2)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 13 years ago | (#239226)

I too have almost given up on mozilla as well. I am using konq, like the poster of this .. Although I have had to install kdesupport, kdelibs, kdebase, just to get it, I also got kde multimedia with that and some other kde tools (I'm running gnome as my desktop, windomaker as my window manager and I still use some kde apps). (this will probably get moded down to -1)

I tried Opera and found that it did not handle plugins that well. I find konq to handle the plugins a little better. I still use Netscape 4 to visit Cnet and watch cnet tv, as mozzilla .8 didn't work at that site and neither did opera, or konq.

I think that when mozilla reaches its 1.0 release it may be worth a second look at, but if they just rewrote the image rendering again, then doesn't it beg the question of how many bugs that introduced?

I then look at the system requirements of mozilla and have to say that you are better off with opera, netscape 4.x even. konq is good, and would do fine with those requirements, but it is a little bit of a beast itself too.

Oh and watch out when converting profiles from netscape to mozilla. When .8 did the conversion on mine it too the .netscape directory and grew it emensly, from 7Meg to almost 100 Meg. Why I don't know, but it did. Not sure if this is a bug or what, but I suspect that they are storing the data differently. Besides, why do I have to create a profile for a browser? yes there should be preferences, but not a profile when you start it up. That is really obnoxious. Maybe a prompt "would you like to create a profile" rather than forcing me to create a default profile.

It would be so nice if you could just install just the browser, with NO references to anything else, no composer, no mail, just the browser, AND then configure the browser to use an external mail app, unlike netscape 4.

Can you say.. scope creap / feature creap???

I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!

Re:nice features... (2)

sharkey (16670) | more than 13 years ago | (#239240)

Yes, but will it make Julianne Fries?


Konq (4)

IceFox (18179) | more than 13 years ago | (#239245)

I must say that I agree with everyone who talks about how good konq has become. I used to use Netscape 4.x all the time. Then when my GlibC libs didn't want to work with netscape I was forced to used konq. Two weeks later when I had everything sorted out I found konq to be so much more then netscape had been. Faster loading, less memory, faster rendering. I couldn't see myself going back. One of the best parts is that because I run kde the entire enviorment has 1 theme. The browser looks and acts the same as the rest of my desktop. And libs that are used in konq are used in other applications making the total memory usage of my system less. That in itself is worth quite a bit (common ui accross my desktop). I have tried Mozzilla a number of times over the past year, but each time it was less then what I needed. Who knows if this is better then my current konq (kde 2.1.1) , but at this point I havn't found a page (for me personally) that my current konq can't handle and konq looks the same as everything else. When I try out mozzilla I am sure that it will load 30 extra mb of xml, ui, and the backend portable libraries. I know that these are good and all, but I don't really care for all that. All I want it a simple clean browser and so far konq does that for me. I will await the .9 reviews. (and take a look at it myself)

Re:What's wrong with Konqueror? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 13 years ago | (#239258)

Actually most of 0.8->0.9 was fixes and rewrites of core functions.

Such a far way (2)

miahrogers (34176) | more than 13 years ago | (#239276)

Mozilla is getting really nice. I know it's come slow, but it's here, and think about where it was a year ago. The advancement is stunning. I've only been using it everyday for like 5 months now but gaah it's awesome.

Just buy more RAM (1)

Kohath (38547) | more than 13 years ago | (#239284)

Have you checked the price of RAM lately? Pry the $30 or $60 out of your pocket and you'll never need to complain about RAM again.

Geez, talk about an easy solution.

Re:Why i'm still not switching... (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#239285)

Are you building yourself? Or using the nightlys?

Re:What's wrong with Konqueror? (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#239286)

It runs on the operating systems people use... I need a browser that runs on Linux, Irix, and Solaris for my day-to-day browsing. I want one that also runs on Windows/Mac for those special occasions when I use them. What are my options exactly?

Re:debian (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#239287)

That remains to be seen, as the debian packages of 0.9 have not yet been created....

Re:mmmmK (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#239288)

Pretty well. For one thing it runs on the OSes I need a browser on....

Re:I'll be a lot happier... (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#239289)

You must have missed the "mail front-end performance rewrite landed _after_ 0.8.1" part of the release notes...

On large mailboxes the front end is up to 20 times faster than the old one when scrolling and the like.

Re:Didn't mention that... (2)

joeytsai (49613) | more than 13 years ago | (#239306)

Indeed, check out libpr0n.com [libpr0n.com]

0.9 rocks my world (1)

mike_sucks (55259) | more than 13 years ago | (#239319)

A quick summary of changes:

- performance, performance, performance.

If you ever thought Moz was slow, get 0.9. Damm, that is one fast browser.

Re:nice features... (2)

mike_sucks (55259) | more than 13 years ago | (#239320)

"but does it slice and dice?"

I think there's a RFE for slicing and dicing, but it does make chop suey in five different ways.

Re:Half the ram and twice as fast? (2)

treke (62626) | more than 13 years ago | (#239328)

Finally, there's no reason to keep using Netscape 4.7x

Hopefully this means it's DNS problems have been fixed. A bug that at least existed 3 days ago was that certain web sites could not load because Mozilla couldn't resolve an IP from the name. While every other network application installed on my machine could.

New skin (1)

BorgDrone (64343) | more than 13 years ago | (#239333)

If you download the latest nightly build you'll see they're working on a new modern skin, and man does is look better and more professional than the current skins.

Re:Modern 3? (2)

BorgDrone (64343) | more than 13 years ago | (#239334)

It's in the latest nightlies and will be in 0.9.1

Re:Not True on Linux (2)

z4ce (67861) | more than 13 years ago | (#239335)

I believe that the reason you feel the menus are are so slow on mozilla is not actually do to mozilla's design be rather how linux handles thread context switching.... try reading the thread around my post [slashdot.org] on it in a separate discussion. I noticed mozilla menus felt much better after this change.. just as fast if not faster than netscape.


I'll be a lot happier... (1)

Doubting Thomas (72381) | more than 13 years ago | (#239351)

When the mail browser doesn't appear to have been written by a ham-fisted clod.

The .8x mail reader is hands down faster than the .6x reader, but honestly, I could write a better performing mail reader with my big toe after a case of Guinness (and I'm a lightweight). The mail shouldn't gum up with only a couple hundred messages in my inbox.


Mozilla is the brower of the future ... (1)

TheJoelMan (81015) | more than 13 years ago | (#239366)

... and it always will be.

24-hour banking!?! I don't have time for that.

Re:slightly ontopic (1)

beerits (87148) | more than 13 years ago | (#239370)

I'm not sure if this is why you got Netscape 8, but under a few browsers (iCab and Opera) you can specify what identity you browser returns.

Re:Why i'm still not switching... (2)

blakestah (91866) | more than 13 years ago | (#239376)

What are you using, a 286? Jeez, my dns servers don't even resolve "slashdot.org" that quickly.

Try djbdns on your local box. The answer to the broken bloated security risk that is BIND. Install it and never think about your DNS again. If you are not a DNS box, install it anyway to resolve local queries only.

DJBDNS [djbdns.org]

Re:Half the ram and twice as fast? (2)

blakestah (91866) | more than 13 years ago | (#239377)

Hmm. Unlikely at best. But the fact is that this browser is very stable (java has not crashed my browser since a nightly DL'd a week ago) It's quite fast on a 450 PII with 128MB of ram, and the rendering engine rocks my world. Finally, there's no reason to keep using Netscape 4.7x

Konq under linux has mozilla beat no question for speed and font handling.

I am seeing about a 10 MByte difference in RAM for the process (explaining the loading time difference).

Konq is a GREAT example of the power of open source. Mozilla is a GREAT example how maintaining a cross-platform application can slow development to a crawl. Konq seems to have been written in half the time, and yet people who have honestly given both a try recently are quite fond of konq. (Abiword is another example of how cross-platform development can make open source move as fast as Microsoft). To add to that, my perception is that about 1/10th the programming time was placed into konqueror (of course, konqueror doesn't come with a free xmlterm...)

Oh, it's real (1)

WD (96061) | more than 13 years ago | (#239385)

Trust me [libpr0n.com]

konqueror (1)

banasw01 (96901) | more than 13 years ago | (#239386)

I have used Gnome with Mozilla in the past, but KDE 2.x that comes with Slackware-Current seems a lot better solution now. The only thing is that KDE 2/Konqueror takes up a LOT of ram, but I guess the speed is nice, and with ram prices being so low it does not matter that much anymore.

Re:Why i'm still not switching... (1)

jaxon6 (104115) | more than 13 years ago | (#239401)

I didn't have to build myself. I came fully assembled.

Re:IMAP delete... (1)

JesseL (107722) | more than 13 years ago | (#239409)

Hmm... I'm running 0.8.1 and it seems to delete things from all my subfolders just fine. Perhaps somthing flakey with your IMAP server?

Who would have thought! (1)

intmainvoid (109559) | more than 13 years ago | (#239411)

Someday this may very well be the best browser in the world.

That could very well be the case. But i'm sure with the threat of an actual 1.0 release on the horizon, the mozilla team will be able to find a few new features to add, and push back the release date another year or two...

different problem (1)

Rizzer (122184) | more than 13 years ago | (#239416)

No, it won't fix the problem with mozilla in Debian. Mozilla (>M18) is being held up from official release in Debian because of policy issues mainly regarding encryption modules and U.S. law, not because of the program itself. Debian developers are currently discussing the meaning of current U.S. law and its implications for encryption software in the future (discussing whether the non-US section of Debian should be brought into main), but a final decision has not yet been released.

Unofficial debs of 0.8 have been available for some time (sorry, I don't have the links at hand) and I presume 0.9 will be packaged up in short time.

awwww, how cute (1)

Lord Omlette (124579) | more than 13 years ago | (#239418)

I remember just yesterday when Mozilla was at it's silly build numbers 18 or 19 or something or other...

Almost there!

ICQ 77863057

Not your father's Mozilla (1)

gengee (124713) | more than 13 years ago | (#239419)

This is not your grandaddy's Mozilla, folks. It is leaner and meaner. Crashes are much more rare. Hanging infrequent. In short, it works. In the past, everytime a new snapshot would come out, we would all rejoice because we just -knew- this was the release we could begin using on a fulltime basis. Unfortunately, three days later we all switched back to Nutscrape 4.75, lynx, links, or lately, for some, Konqueror. But this release is different. It starts faster, renders faster and dies slower. Use it and abuse it, and remember to post bugs to bugzilla. 1.0 is not far away:)
signature smigmature

Re:What's wrong with Konqueror? (1)

gengee (124713) | more than 13 years ago | (#239420)

What can it do that Konqueror can not?
It can *not* look like Internet Explorer.

Netscape was slow and ugly.
I'll admit Netscape was...broken...But I wouldn't say it was slow or ugly.

Last time I checked it, they included a lot of bloated features, rather than fixes to the core of the thing.
You've been misinformed. While it's true that Mozilla /can/ do many things, it doesn't have to.
signature smigmature

Guys... this is good. (2)

_underSCORE (128392) | more than 13 years ago | (#239423)

I have been using mozilla for almost a year and a half now. (It renders much like IE, so debugging web pages is easy using Moz + Netscape) This release is far and away the best release I have seen. I was very impressed at the speed improvements made to the browser and the JVM as well. I haven't used Konq yet ( I'll try it now that my DSL is back up) but this mozilla is surely going to replace Netscape for me. (That is if the frames navigation bug has been fixed).

It's that good.


IMAP delete... (1)

ca1v1n (135902) | more than 13 years ago | (#239433)

I'm currently using 0.8 and it only deletes messages in the main inbox. It's infuriating! I can't tell if they've fixed this or not, but I'll upgrade anyway. Having mail/browser integration is a nice thing, but I can't use a mail reader that won't let me delete the vast majority of my mail that I am uninterested in.

The Best Browser In The World? (1)

mellonhead (137423) | more than 13 years ago | (#239435)

Someday this may very well be the best browser in the world. I write this in konqueror, and hope Moz 0.9 uses half the RAM and is twice as fast and convinces me to switch back.
SomeWHERE ooooooover the rainbow...

Re:lib pr0n (1)

mellonhead (137423) | more than 13 years ago | (#239436)

Rate me on picture-rate.com (the link actualy points to me now)

Re:Guys... this is good. (1)

ekrout (139379) | more than 13 years ago | (#239438)

It's that good.

<sarc>Whoa, this new Mozilla is so much faster (in crashing) than the previous point release! (I got a segfault 3 seconds after typing "./mozilla")</sarc>

[eric@ekrout mozilla]$ ./mozilla ./run-mozilla.sh ./mozilla-bin MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/home/eric/mozillatest/mozilla
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/eric/mozillatest/mozilla:/ho me/eric/mozillatest/mozilla/plugins
LIBRARY_PATH=/home/eric/mozillatest/mozilla:/home/ eric/mozillatest/mozilla/components
/home/eric/mozillatest/mozilla/run-mozilla.sh: line 72: 11084
Segmentation fault (core dumped) $prog ${1+"$@"}
[eric@ekrout mozilla]$

lib pr0n (2)

elegant7x (142766) | more than 13 years ago | (#239444)

A Friend of mine frequented the Mozilla.org newsgroups and IRC channels since was embedding JavaScript into his RPG engine.

One day he mentioned a new image library they were working on, and I swore to god he told me it was called lib pr0n, now he might have been joking (though he isn't really the type), and it might have just been an internal name. But it was funny as hell.

And really, I'm not making this up.

Rate me [picture-rate.com] on picture-rate.com

Get NT/2000 (2)

elegant7x (142766) | more than 13 years ago | (#239445)

I had this problem to in ie on windows 9x. Using kuro5hin is really bad, since everyone gets to moderate. But the problem is non-existent in 2k/NT (Gives you a pretty good idea of what OS M$ uses for testing/development, eh)

It's not that bad of a solution, either, since those OSs are so easy to pirate. Even in the US a lot of people don't bother to pay : )

Rate me [picture-rate.com] on picture-rate.com

Shamless Plug (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 13 years ago | (#239450)

Not for myself really...just a nifty little browser called K-Meleon [kmeleon.org] , a lightweight browser that uses the M18 basecode for Windows. They're currently up to version .3, so it tends to eat up visual memory (has it's own graphical widgets (scroll bars, ect)), and has some trouble copying and pasting. You can now set your own home page (defualted to the Kmeleon website in previous versions), and change "skins" (somewhat). It's definatly faster than IE on a dialup modem, not to mention light-weight (2.9 or 3.0 megs), and is completely independent of IE (to the best of my knowledge...there may be IP stacks shared or somthing.

and yes, there's a "linux port", Gecko, for the uninformed. Actually, Kmeleon was ported from Galeon's Gecko engine, hence the similarity in lizard names. Both are nifty, although I believe Galeon has more features (Kmeleon is about as bare bones as you get before downgrading to Mosaic).

You can download Window's Kmeleon here [kmeleon.org] , and find the main page for Galeon here [sourceforge.net] .

Cool new theme in nightlies (2)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 13 years ago | (#239452)

Moz 0.9 is rock solid. The recent nightlies are iffy, but getting there. One thing that's in the nightlies is a much-needed improvement to the "Modern" theme; it's now a much sleeker gray color with cooler looking buttons. :) I have a feeling we'll all be in for a real treat once 1.0 hits the net.

Re:Why I've given up in Mozilla (1)

kger (146738) | more than 13 years ago | (#239453)

I use the Win32 version of Opera, and I am quite impressed with the current 5.11 version. They have finally worked out the kinks in the way it handles popup windows. You can now have the browser windows maximized in the MDI interface, and popups will still appear as small windows without forcing all other windows to become "un-maximized" (an annoyance for a long time with Opera). And they finally have worked out the very annoying "render while you watch" behavior (something I also dislike about IE). It's very quick, and very compatible. Rarely do I run across a web site that won't load properly in Opera.

If you have checked out Opera before but didn't like something or other about it, I recommend trying it out again. You may be pleasantly surprised. No, it's not free, but I found it to be well worth the registration fee.

Using Plugins with Mozilla? (1)

pepermil (146926) | more than 13 years ago | (#239454)

Ok, this may seem a little basic, but how do you go about getting plugins to work for Mozilla? Is there a link out there that'll describe the process? I'm on a Windows box (unfortunately), and whenever I grab plugin installers (like Flash, Shockwave, QuickTime) they all detect my installs of IE & Netscape 4.7x (don't have Netscape 6 installed). But none notice that I have Mozilla (usually, unzipped from a nightly build), so how can I get Mozilla to handle these plugins? Thx.


Very nice! (1)

Xiphoid Process (153566) | more than 13 years ago | (#239464)

Before all of the pessimist take over this forum as usual, let me get in a positive word. I use Konqueror, Moz Nighlies, ie, K-Meleon, NS4.7 and Galeon on a regular basis (crazy, but true) and Moz is really climbing towards the top of my list. It's got a little ways to go before becoming the fastest, lightest browser on the block, but that really wasn't its point in existing at all. It is supposed to be a cross platform, total network communications sweat, and it does this like no one else can. If you want a fast light JustABrowser browser, use Galeon, K-Meleon or Konqueror, they are all maturing nicely (K-Meleon is about the release 0.4 which is startlingly fast and only 3megs! :) Anyhow, don't beleive the hype, Moz is coming along really quickly these days, i use the nightlies and everyday speed and memory improvments are landing. Don't expect a totally polished browser yet out of .9, but give it an honest chance.

Re:What other MS-compatable alternatives are there (1)

Ig0r (154739) | more than 13 years ago | (#239465)

Ahh, another thing I don't miss from my IE days.
Any complicated form would completely hose the entire system, forcing a GUI restart.


Re:Ponder... (1)

Ig0r (154739) | more than 13 years ago | (#239466)

And allow the browser to be able to take down the GUI and the OS along with it, yay!


Re:Prediction of posts here: (1)

shepd (155729) | more than 13 years ago | (#239468)

Hate Internet Explorer = 69,900 pages
Hate IE = 382,200 pages

Total MSIE hate = 452,100 pages
Total MSIE hate / Netscape hate = 2.84x the hate

I think that says it all if we're going by google page counts. ;-)

Re:Konq (5)

DeeKayWon (155842) | more than 13 years ago | (#239470)

DeeK's law: 90% of all KDE users become rabid Konqueror evangelists. I should know. I used to be one. Konqueror is a damn good broswer, but I don't think it's a good thing to detract from Mozilla's impending thunder.

I may use and love Konqueror, but I still cheer for the Mozilla people because they're just a teeny bit more ambitious; as in, Mozilla runs on Unix, Windows, Mac, BeOS, and others. I still use Netscape 4.7x under Windows because I still prefer its "feel" over IE (Dear Microsoft: Fix the ****ing mouse wheel scolling!!), but it's getting outdated quickly, and I'm going to need something better for Windows. Mozilla and its derivatives (like K-meleon [kmeleon.org] ) are pretty much the only runners from the free software/open source community right now. I don't like the idea of Microsoft embracing and extending the web and convincing web designers that getting 90-95% of the potential market is good enough. We need a browser that runs on all platforms and is the most standards-compliant of all of them. That's why I can't help but cheer Mozilla on.

Konqueror nice, yes..but.. (2)

proxima (165692) | more than 13 years ago | (#239477)

I still use a few computers with Windows (including my main home computer). 2 of the 4 computers I own run Linux (including one small server), and my laptop (old) dual-boots.

Konqueror seems nice, but it's (obviously) not available for win32.

I don't particularly like how Internet Explorer renders pages (seems choppy, jerks while rendering tables and images without prespecified sizes), so I only use it under MacOS. Netscape 6 is far too slow and unstable to be used seriously (yes, I know it's based off of Mozilla, but they really messed with it before releasing it).

So what do I do? I end up using Netscape 4.76 on almost all computers, Linux included. It's reasonably fast, mostly stable (except in win2000 is seems), and actually renders nicely (IMO). I've tried recent milestones of Mozilla (not including this one), and it seems to have a fair amount of potential - but still is kinda slow for a browser (probably 'cause it's not built into the OS =). Also, their development seems to be taking a whole lot longer than applications like Konqueror, but perhaps in the end Mozilla will set the standard for high-quality browsers.

I'm off to try out this milestone to see how it runs, and maybe begin to replace my almost-obsolete Netscape 4.76. Good luck to the Mozilla team.

Re:nice features... (1)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 13 years ago | (#239483)

Woohoo! I'm downloading it now! Thanks for informing me of these features!

nice features... (2)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 13 years ago | (#239484)

but does it slice and dice? I won't get it unless it slices and dices.

Re:Prediction of posts here: (2)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 13 years ago | (#239485)

whoa..those percentages are way wrong. You are forgetting the percentage of goatse.cx posts, the percentage of spork posts and the percentage of DIE BILL GATES DIE!! posts. Just to screw up your percentages even more, I will add a DIE BILL GATES DIE!! post right here for your inconveniance.


slightly ontopic (2)

fjordboy (169716) | more than 13 years ago | (#239486)

I dunno why, but this story reminded me of a question i had for the slashdot community. I was looking through some server logs the other day, and it has logs of different browsers and whatnot that are used to access our site. One of the browsers showed up as "Netscape 8." anyone know what's up with that?

Re:What other MS-compatable alternatives are there (1)

snol (175626) | more than 13 years ago | (#239489)

Opera is beautiful but it definitely still has problems with /. moderation.

pretty good... (1)

snol (175626) | more than 13 years ago | (#239490)

I just tried it, for a couple minutes. It has improved - much, much faster than I remember from last time I tried it. I can't say much about stability with the amount of time I used it (I got some "unknown error" when I tried to open the mail client, but at least it didn't crash...) Problem is, I'm so damned used to Opera's gesture navigation that I couldn't switch if I wanted to. Damn them!!!

Re:Konq (1)

felipeal (177452) | more than 13 years ago | (#239492)

I also agree that Konqueror is faster and lighter (I use it the most I can, even though I don't use kde), but if we want to fight the IE dominance, we need a standards compliant browser that runs in Winblows/Mac, as these are the platform most web designers use. You can't force a designer to make code Konqueror compatible (the main problem resides in the javascript realm, where "We estimate that 90% of the web's script work with Konqueror"); it's already hard to convince them to be Mozilla-compatible (as they are spoiled with the 'easier way you can do stuff with IE').

Ideally, we should be able to use konqueror as primary browser (due to its performance), and have Mozilla as a backup, for the pages that doesn't work with konqueror (yet). Unfortunately, this scenario is not possible yet, as not all pages work with Mozilla neither, so we still need that crappy Navigator 4.7 as the last resort :(

Konqueror (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#239493)

Actually, Konqueror has turned out to be a huge surprise. It runs fast, displays a majority of pages well, and boots quickly. There are a few times where I have to whip out Netscape (most notably at eBay, which sometimes seems to forget I've logged on), but other than that Konqueror has become my browser of choice on the Linux side. IE 5.0 is unabashedly for my Windows side.

fast? (1)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 13 years ago | (#239497)

I just downloaded, installed, ran, set proxies, logged in as my username to /., and posted this. I saw the story with 15 comments, now I'm post #...


Re:fast? (1)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 13 years ago | (#239498)

The initial post was pretty flippant, yes, but seriously, this is a fast browser. I'm impressed. I may switch from konq/kmail if they put local mail file access back into mozilla mail, and netscape's LDAP addressing was nice, too.


First impression (1)

mdroid (181261) | more than 13 years ago | (#239501)

My first impression is (after I've been using 0.9 for 5 minutes) is that it is in deed faster, but still has a lot of bugs to be fixed (and some new introduced)
For example:
javascript window.status and a:hover still don't seem to go well together...
an other nasty thing that bugs seems to be animated transparent gifs...

well... I'll investigate more tomorrow...


Re:There is _no_ reason to stick with Netscape (1)

HoaryCripple (187169) | more than 13 years ago | (#239503)

Well, you know, i've heard nothing but good things about Konqueror, and am looking forward to trying it one of these days. The only thing holding me back is the fact that there is no java support. Is this still true? I am assuming that I do not have to have KDE installed to use this right? Just the libs?



Half the ram and twice as fast? (2)

HoaryCripple (187169) | more than 13 years ago | (#239505)

Hmm. Unlikely at best. But the fact is that this browser is very stable (java has not crashed my browser since a nightly DL'd a week ago) It's quite fast on a 450 PII with 128MB of ram, and the rendering engine rocks my world. Finally, there's no reason to keep using Netscape 4.7x



Re:Why i'm still not switching... (1)

7-Vodka (195504) | more than 13 years ago | (#239510)

oh shit. I'm sorry. I'm talking about the fucking mozilla cvs and it's not on topic with the story.

pardon me then.

"just connect this to..."

Re:What other MS-compatable alternatives are there (1)

grammar nazi (197303) | more than 13 years ago | (#239512)

...and I thought the grammar nazi was the only one with this problem!

Didn't mention that... (5)

grammar nazi (197303) | more than 13 years ago | (#239513)

the new image rendering library was known as libpr0n to all of the developers.

Mozilla 9 (1)

Cardhore (216574) | more than 13 years ago | (#239523)

Hey'! It's 9 megabytes too!

Not True on Linux (3)

mojo-raisin (223411) | more than 13 years ago | (#239527)

I just tried out the Linux version on my Glibc 2.2.3/Kernel 2.4.4 system, and the performance still does not hold a candle to Netscape 4.77.

Navigating the menus still feels like a java app with large delays in action.Opening new windows and bringing up preferences is still slow.

Until I get *instantaneous* response like NS 4.77, I will never switch to mozilla.

What's holding it back speed-wise? (1)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 13 years ago | (#239529)

Er... if you skipped the subject header, what's holding it back speed-wise? Is speed in the area of MS Explorer possible?

I'd assumed certain layers/barriers between the operating system and the browser would need to be eliminated or reduced in order for that to happen, and I also figured that such layers/barriers would only come into play post-1.0...

Just curious.

Re:Prediction of posts here: (1)

corky6921 (240602) | more than 13 years ago | (#239537)

50% will be "Netscape doesn't have support for <insert obscure standard here>! I HATE NETSCAPE IT WONT ACCEPT MY SLOPPY HTML!1!!!!1'"

Oh, like stylesheets. [macedition.com] Or ... stylesheets. [css.nu] In fact, a search for "hate netscape" [google.com] in Google turns up 159,000 entries. Go read some of them.

I really hope that Mozilla will be a web browser panacea someday. Until then, I'll be sticking with IE... on my Solaris box, even. ;)

mmmmK (1)

daniel_isaacs (249732) | more than 13 years ago | (#239545)

I don't Gnow why I ought to stop using Konquerer. How Does Big Mo compare?

Why I've given up in Mozilla (1)

sparcv9 (253182) | more than 13 years ago | (#239547)

This may get modded down as offtopic or a troll, but I love the new Opera so much that it's worth it to get the word out.

The new Opera for Linux [opera.com] rocks my socks. 5.0b8 is out, and it's a heck of a lot more stable than Mozilla ever was for me. Mozilla 0.8 was still too buggy, bloated and slow for my poor little Pentium 233 to handle. Opera is quick, looks pretty, renders pages better and faster than Netscape or Mozilla, and it's still free. Yes, you have to pay ~$40 to get rid of the banner ad in the button bar, but since I don't use the buttons, I just move that whole toolbar to the bottom of the pane.

I also like the selective restrictions you can place on things like Java popups, and the fact that you can specify sites from which to allow/deny cookies. Hell, it even saves your state on the rare occasions when it crashes, and when you restart it, it will ask you if you want to open it with the same pages you were viewing when it tanked. Now if they'd only release a Solaris port so that I could use it at work. Either that, or opensource it so someone else (maybe me) can port it.

please cmdrtaco (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#239553)

stop pointing out how you use konquerer.
we know.

we don't care.
shut up.

this is not meant to be a troll, but the truth.

debian (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#239554)

does anyone know if this fixes the problems that has occurred with debian packaging of mozilla?

Well, Not to be redundant. (1)

dalutong (260603) | more than 13 years ago | (#239555)

But I download the source from CVS everynight and build this myself (email me if you would like to get instructions on building it in Linux -- especially if you are having trouble with PSM) and i must say that at least the ones i download and build are amazingly quick. No, I am not saying that they are netscape quick, but apparently since .9 branched there has been one bug (can't remember the #) that was causing a paint problem in rendering and allowed Mozilla , once fixed, to render up to 20% faster. I never measured how much faster it got, but it was noticeable.

Load time is faster. 3 seconds for me -- and that is acceptable. Stability is a little iffy on some of my own builds, but that is what you do for getting CVS builds. I have not used 0.9 but unless they REALLY receded the code for stabiliy, I can't imagine that this would not be as acceptable as my CVS builds.

I must say that it is no good that one must build from CVS to really get Mozilla going well, but I like the power to get rid of mailnews, debug, and tests. No crud, much love. :)

Anyway, just my .02 -- and one must note: PSM is much better than the last milestone i used (whatever that was. 0.8.1 i think) now i can click my hotmail "select me" buttons and not have to wait a few seconds for the check to come up. maybe that has nothing to do with PSM, but i figured that since hotmail is a "secure" site, and if i didn't get PSM i could not get in, it was because of that. Shows what i know. But even if it isn't PSM, at least that is useable now.

Re:nice features... (2)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 13 years ago | (#239556)

It's non-stick and is equipped with space-age technologies to make cleanup a snap.

Dancin Santa

Be careful what you wish for... (1)

Tsar cr0bar (310803) | more than 13 years ago | (#239567)

"Someday this may very well be the best browser in the world."

I see. . .and would this be the same day that everyone starts running Linux?


What's wrong with Konqueror? (1)

metatruk (315048) | more than 13 years ago | (#239569)

I've been using Konqueror ever since it came out. Why? because Netscape was slow and ugly. Konqueror is much faster, and feels like Internet explorer. Mozilla isn't any better. Last time I checked it, they included a lot of bloated features, rather than fixes to the core of the thing. I wasn't happy. So why are so many people interested in Mozilla and not Konqueror? What can it do that Konqueror can not?

What other MS-compatable alternatives are there... (3)

number one duck (319827) | more than 13 years ago | (#239572)

...Besides Netscape/Mozilla?
I should switch. I'm running explorer pretty much by default, and it won't even let me moderate! All my dropdown boxes blur together, the windows begin to freeze, and the little girl's head begins to spin. (this also happens when I get too many form elements in *total* windows. Sigh.)

Re:Prediction of posts here: (1)

The Angry Clam (442606) | more than 13 years ago | (#239585)

You forgot to include all the people who are going to go off on the glories of their desktop manager browser. We've already seen several konqueror posts. I predict that some of the threads will quickly devolve into shouting matches on the old KDE vs. Gnome battle. That said, it's time to follow up on my prediction- I'm sticking with konqueror for now.

Re:What other MS-compatable alternatives are there (1)

warmiak (444024) | more than 13 years ago | (#239589)

Are you sure we are talking about the same browser ?
IE works almost flawlessly and certainly better than any version of Netscape (old or new)

What has Changed & How to get Involved (5)

tk422 (446096) | more than 13 years ago | (#239592)

The 0.9 branch is known as the performance branch (though more performance stuff is still being checked in) and to that end a lot of stuff has been rewritten for speed: For example, Mail/News now uses Outliner which has at least doubled the speed which I use to have using Mozilla Mail/News. Then there's PSM 2.0 which was totally rewritten from the ground up so that SSL pages are now blazzingly fast. ImageLib (LibPr0n) also was completely rewritten so that it renders images 2x as fast as it did before. This is not to say that this is the end of the performance fixes. In addition to the ones mentioned above, the latest nightlies have a very big speed increase loading pages (which was checked in right after 0.9 branched). In addition were working on getting the startup time down, with among other things the ability on (Winblows computers) to load Mozilla at Startup just as you would IE. bug 76004, (I know some people won't like this idea but some will, and you will have a choice) If you want to help out you can join the channel #mozillazine on irc.mozilla.org. We need Linux coders to help optimize the speed on Linux so that its just as fast as on Windows, were getting there but were still a bit behind. A while ago I stopped b*tching about Mozilla and its slowness and decided to get involved and I have found you can make a lot of difference if you do. Even if you can't devote lots of time to it, even filing bugs, helping sort and duplicate bugs or creating testcases for those bugs is sorely needed. If you have any questions feel free to email me or check out Mozillazine [mozillazine.org] .

Re:Didn't mention that... (1)

zachlipton (448206) | more than 13 years ago | (#239595)

Actually, libpr0n is new in this release, it was checked into cvs after prior releases.

Re:What has Changed & How to get Involved (1)

zachlipton (448206) | more than 13 years ago | (#239596)

Also, do remember that even non-coders can help out with Mozilla. Come to irc.mozilla.org #mozillazine or check out http://www.mozilla.org/quality/help

Re:slightly ontopic (1)

zachlipton (448206) | more than 13 years ago | (#239597)

Yes, Mozilla (and netscape) does have a "hidden" prefrence that allows you to set the useragent string. You can look at your prefs.js file (stored as part of your profile) and change the setting to comply with your wishes.

Re:lib pr0n (1)

zachlipton (448206) | more than 13 years ago | (#239598)

The Netscape image rendering team decided to name the new rendering library libpr0n. I shouldn't be telling anyone about this, but http://www.libpr0n.com gives you the gory details: From the libpr0n faq: Do you plan to make any money from libpr0n? The intention is to restrict the version of libpr0n shipped with Mozilla to a fixed number of pixels per session. To unlock the restriction, users will be encouraged to register their copy (we estimate that this will be about $34.95). However, if you act _now_, you are entitled to a free registration. http://www.libpr0n.com has all the information. However, "Note. Children under the age of 13 should not need a porn rendering library."
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