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jcraveiro writes "MozillaZine announced yesterday that Sunbird, Mozilla's standalone cross-platform calendar project, has reached its first official relase: version 0.2, for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X." This is good news for all of us waiting for decent free calendaring software.
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by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Saturday February 05, 2005 @02:21PM (#11583785)
This is good news for all of us waiting for decent free calendaring software.
Are you going to download Sunbird and put a reminder in it to "continue waiting for decent free calendaring software"?;-D
I know a couple people who continue using their Palm Desktop long after their handheld device died. And another person that uses his Palm device just for backups. They all love the Palm Desktop which is downloadable.
ps
I hope Palm doesn't screw it up by changing it. Like they screwed up PDAs by making them too large. The Palm V and Vx were perfect in terms of size and I'd buy one today for $400+ if it could do email in that form-factor. Until then, I'm sticking with my Palm Vx because if the PDA is to
I guess porting it to XUL is an interesting change, but I still see a very narrow mindset with respect to what an "event" is. Not all "events" have a start time and a stop time. With some, you just want to note the date and time they occurred (past tense), and are completely uninterested in anything related to duration. I hope that someone will take an innovative step in the design of this (or other OS calendaring software) that will allow users to define events however they want.
Okay, so the Lizard is split into Firefox, Thunderbird, and Sunbird. With XUL, you can write applications that run on Mozilla. It does about everything but play games and work as an office suite. So when are we going to see Mozilla integrated in with OpenOffice and the two together turned into MOS (Mozilla OS)?
Mozilla can't be integrated with OOo, because of licensing issues, and the enormous bloat it would create, given the two different codebases.
In any case, a web-utilities suite and an office suite aren't enough to constitute a web browser. They would be enough for a simplistic out-of-the-box experience though.
I would be far more interested in a Mozilla IDE, capable of handling PHP, C++, Python, and Java. Mostly PHP, in my case. HomeSite-style.
What I'd *LOVE* is for such a PHP IDE to have code-folding and a tree view that actually checks my *includes* for functions and objects that will be used. Not to mention, the potential for live-testing would be neato.:)
It does most of what you want including code folding and even integrates with gubed (see freshmeat,net), the php debugger written in PHP.
Qunata is ACE, apart from the odd bit of extra unneccesary screen painting which really shows up if you are running coLinux and FreeNX instead of booting natively (sometimes I have to do it that way).
Like Thunderbird, Sunbird is hampered by the fact that it will not minimize to the system tray in Windows XP. I don't want to leave it on all the time because it takes up a lot of space on the task bar. And what use is a calendar program that isn't on all the time?
There are third party fixes to this, and for all I know extensions that do the same thing, but it would be really nice to have system tray minimization as default behavior.
Yeah, that is a problem, but Thunderbird has a lot of other problems as far as I've seen (making me choose Refrozen [refrozen.com]-WebMail as my client of choice, no you can't use it, for my personal use only:-))
With Thunderbird, if you save a letter to send later, you have no way (that I can find) to send it, you have to restart the program for it to send it self, (in other words, there is no send button, just a recieve button)... Maybe I am wrong, or have the concept mixed up, but, that's how I see it.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but I believe what you do is double click on the message in your drafts folder to open it, then click the send button that is the leftmost item on the toolbar.
With Thunderbird, if you save a letter to send later, you have no way (that I can find) to send it, you have to restart the program for it to send it self, (in other words, there is no send button, just a recieve button)... Maybe I am wrong, or have the concept mixed up, but, that's how I see it.
I didn't find that a problem because there are several utilities that will do this for you on Windows.
My problem is that it won't minimize the "system tray" (or equivalent) in either KDE or GNOME. It boggles my mind as to why they can't just add that relatively simple feature. Ugh, come on people! This is 2005, not 1995.
I've been using Evolution for ages because of just that one missing feature. I don't care for Evolution because the S/MIME support limited (no PKCS#11 support) or broken.
You can get WindowsPowerPro to minimize the window you want to the system tray. I've been using to get some stuff out of the way. It's free and has plenty of other functionality
You have a point; any "always open" app like email/calendar should not take up space on the task bar. Personally I have lots of apps like this (that I want to leave open all day w/o them taking up taskbar space). Is that seriously a show-stopper for people, though?
My current solution is PowerMenu [veridicus.com]; it's tiny, freeware, and gives you a "minimize to tray" option for all windows. I also use it to reorganize things on my taskbar (e.g., comparing old output with new, I can have the older document on the left.
Depending on what action on WMP 10 you like (i have never installed it so i can't say exactly how it behaves) but core media player makes me very happy. Controls from beside the clock, although it doesn't show the scrolling song title on the task bar like I remember winamp doing, but it shows it when minimized to the task bar.
Ok, i think I'm not making much sense I am very sick, but if you can decypher this, then enjoy.
I've used Sunbird for Linux for a while now and I must say it's fairly good. There are a lot of bugs of course but it's usable and I like it. But that's also because I didn't try anything else. Because I have a Mac, Xp, and Linux I love all Mozilla stuff because it runs on all those platforms almost exactly the same.
I'd really like to use it but as a linux user who isn't an expert, I can't install this software. The readme mentions two different ways to install Sunbird, of course both mention scripts which don't actually exist (mozilla-installer and mozilla). All I'm left with is a bunch of.so's and executables.
I know this isn't the place to ask for tech support so I'm not asking for any. I'm just saying they didn't make it obvious to me how to install Sunbird.
Oh yes the program does run fine, I just don't know the proper place to put all the files myself. I don't want to have it sitting under my home directory.
I've used Mozilla calendar for a while, until I've moved to linux on amd64... and all of a sudden, among a number of packages, Mozilla Calendar (well, Sunbird) stopped working. It just crashes outright.
I had to move over to Evolution (that has e-mail and calendar). So far so good. I'll definitely try this latest Sunbird release to see if it works on amd64 linux.
I have yahoo calendar. A desk calendar ( you know, the one you doodle on --well, not you, me). I also have a calendar in my cell phone, and one at work in my ARRGGHHH!!! lotus notes.
In the last year, I have entered 2 items in the calendar. And never looked back.
I do my tasks in a wiki, as ascii text. Much easier, much faster. not stuck to one pc. (i use 10 machines on a regular basis (home - 2, office - 3, other office - 2 , other office 3, not counting all the "friends" I support when food is
I know this is setting me up for a'Floggin', but does it integrate with MS Exchange? The only thing keeping me in Windows on my work PC is the need for a calendar system that works with the company's Exchange system.
I've looked at the site, but can't see any mention of it.
I know this is setting me up for a'Floggin', but does it integrate with MS Exchange?
Nope. Right now the Mozilla Calendar Project and, hence, the standalone Mozilla Sunbird, only support open calendering protocols (CalDAV and ICS). While there is demand for Exchange support, noone has stepped up to offer it. I'd guess, as Sunbird and the Lightning Project [mozilla.org] mature (and if enough demand builds up), someone may release a pay component that handles Exchange connectivity first... followed by an open source on
"The days of 'I stay with windows because of outlook+exchange are over'"
I'm a UNIX SysAdmin, I've been using Linux on the Desktop (not exclusively) for many years. None of the solutions you mention works well... Believe me, I have tried them all. They aren't anywhere near as easy to use as a mail/calendar interface as OUTLOOK+Exchange on a native Windows system. Nor are they as good as using Outlook2000 with CodeWeavers CrossOver office on a Linux box.
Maybe you are right about "don't need", but I would say
As long as it doesn't synchronise with a PocketPC, it's pointless for me as an iPaq owner.
OK, you can blame MS on not opening the ActiveSync protocol, but it should be possible to synchronize Sunbird or Thunderbird with a small client application running on the PocketPC, similar to how IntelliSync works.
This is the dream app for me as a college student (I hate using PalmOS's default calender app). But whilever it doesn't install and syn on PalmOS (Tungsten E), it's useless to me as well.
Likewise, except my sync target is Symbian Series 60. But all of us would-be synch'ers should keep an eye on Sunbird, as all these platforms are mentioned in the Requirements page.
Thunderbird synch with Symbian would be nice, too - without it, I'm still not really using the T-bird address book as a real contact manager.
Way to be oblivious to the big picture, Slashdotters!!!
The sooner that Exchange is emulated in OSS, the sooner there will be no reason to run Microsoft products on the backend for small and medium sized offices.
* IIS? Gone with Apache. * File/Print? Gone with Samba. * Email? Not so fast. We like the groupware functionality of Exchange.
And of course, consultants who don't know any better see that there's no OSS to fulfil the groupware need, and therefore, there's no reason to learn/pitch Apache/Samba. Why bother with those when you can have the "nice integration" of MS products? Once Sunbird/OpenGroupware, et al reaches the ability of invitations, seeing busy/free on other user's calendars, and inviting resources, then Redmond will run real scared.
Good job, Sunbird. You're the missing link and you're looking good.
In some news clippings, Sun has talked about releasing their Java Enterprise System as open source. It includes messaging and calendar as well as a number of other enterprise applications. If it's open sourced and available free it would be cool. There's already a plug in for Evolution.
For small shops, less than 100 employees, i think it may still be free. Otherwise you can get some peices of it for $50/employee/year.
There are two cash-cows that Microsoft will defend vigorously. Office, and Exchange. Outlook as a mailer is no big deal. But email/calendaring integration are what make it so attractive to businesses. Interoperating w/ exchange will be the way to kill it and I'm not sure if that M$ will ever sit still long enough for that to happen.
I think it would be better if Sunbird and the OSS community designed a good calendaring/email (Sunbird/T-Bird) solution that worked well stand-alone because it would be easi
I think there are already reasonable alternatives to Exchange on Linux, though they are not necessarily free.
My organization will in a month or two migrate from our #^$#@% Exchange 5.5 server to Bynari Insight Server [bynari.net]. It uses open source components (Postfix, OpenLDAP, etc) and some proprietary components to put together a pretty good set of features. Our IT director did a TCO study, and Bynari (along with all the other Linux options) costs a small fraction of what Exchange would cost. And we think it wi
When iCalendar [ietf.org] support is built into everything, it'll be very easy for public groups to see each other's meetings, and for individuals to participate.
I easily lose track of when the Seattle XP programmers, Seattle Perl programmers, Seattle Python programmers, Seattle Robotics Society, Seattle Cosmic, Seattle Wireless, Seattle Java, Seattle C++, Seattle Wikipedia, Seattle FreeBSD Users group, Greater Seattle Linux Users Group, Seattle Bloggers, East side Bloggers, Seattle Futurists, etc., etc., etc.,...I easily lose track of what's going on when. With automatic calendaring, when we can subscribe to calendars as simply as we subscribe to RSS feeds- we're going to see a surge in awareness of what groups are meeting when, and how to meet up with them.
Right now, I can only track 1 group at a time. "Is Seattle Python meeting this weekend?" "No?" "Guess there's nobody to see this weekend."
But, as you can see from my short list above (compared to how much activity is actually going on,) there's actually a whole lot going on that I might be interested in visiting.
As Automatic Calendaring picks up, the public will recognize the power of its ability to communicate and organize.
Previously, this is something that only people who could afford secretaries could experience.
The problem we've been failing to solve for way too long is that there's no standard access protocol for open source groupware clients to talk to open source groupware servers. Fortunately, this is about to change.
GroupDAV [groupdav.org] is a subset of DAV designed to handle this task. The draft version of the spec is available already, and unlike most new protocols, its primary goal is to be simple enough for widespread implementation. GroupDAV uses the vCalendar/iCalendar and vCard standard data formats, and a simp
I've suggested that to my wife, but she wants both address book and calendar integration. The Palm Desktop is great for calendaring, but I've never been able to make it talk to an e-mail client, so the address book is almost pointless. I'm hoping that with Sunbird/Thunderbird, though, at some point in the future, we can move my wife away from Outlook.
For the record, I have my wife behind three firewalls: the firewall hardwired into our Linksys router, the firewall that came with WindowsXP SP2, and the Zo
ScheduleWorld is free, works on Linux, Mac OS/X, Windows, Solaris. It is by far more standards compliant and interoperates really well with Exchange/Outlook and Notes. Check it out and see for yourself.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Saturday February 05, 2005 @03:23PM (#11584298)
From the above linked Sunbird page;
Tuesday, February 4th, 2005:
The Sunbird team is proud to announce its first official release: Sunbird 0.2 for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. You can find builds for the different platforms on our download page.
Maybe the day-of-the-week problem will be fixed in 0.3;-)
i've found sunbird too heavy for my needs: Thunderbird is already eatin 50MB of my memory and i dont want Sunbird to do the same so I'm currently using EssentialPIM [essentialpim.com] a small (1MB) and free PIM for Windows and it's quite ok for small todos and appointments.
I think that Evolution could be the right solution on Linux, but i've not tried it too much...
I'm loving the fact that there are so many new alternatives to IE (I mainly use Safari and Firefox), Outlook (I use OS X's Mail and am still dabbling with Thunderbird) and now calendar (I use iCal and am now testing Sunbird) apps. It's driving me batty though...I get used to using one particular app and then new, better ones come out. Not one to be stuck using the old stuff, I gotta try the new releases. The only problem...there's a small learning curve and I have to redo the way I used to do them before.
I'm an early adopter and I admit it. It's one of the things I have to deal with. My concern however is, just how many people in the everyday world are willing to stop using Outlook to learn an entirely new way of doing things. Some apps, such as browsers, don't matter as much. A browser is a browser, with a few features here and there, but the underlying concept is the same. Type in a URL and go. Other things though...aye...
But isn't it nice to tackle each new one quicker than the last? And the frustrations of a previous program or even a previous version (w00t! I just printed a calendar in Sunbird and it didn't crash!) can turn into the joy of seeing it fixed.
I'd better wrap this up before I start talking about fuzzy-assed bunnies or something.
After launching Sunbird for the first time on Mac OS X (1.0.3.7), it quit (like Firefox often does on a first run) and informed me that any old extensions I had would be deleted. Fine, as I don't have any Sunbird extensions. Then it relaunched automatically (again, like Firefox) but then "unexpectedly quit". I tried relaunching it only to have the icon appear momentarily in my Dock and then disappear. Again. And again. I've tried ejecting the disk image, but it can't because it's "in use".
You're supposed to copy the Sunbird executable out of the disk image first. This infinite restart loop is a known bug IF you run it from the disk image.
I came to OSX from a linux background, so I am pre-disposed to try all the new open-source things. The Mozilla family is central in my tests, since it is halfway reasonable on Linux.
Unfortunately, I have yet to see an open-source offering that is competitive with the Apple software. They tend to be buggy, they tend to be slow, and they tend to be awkward to use.
Given my linux background, I'll keep on trying the open-source things every few months. Surely they will at least become less buggy, although
What's with this freaking obsession with car names? Firebird, then Thunderbird, now this. They should just call all 3 the SunFireBird Browser/Email/Calendar and get it over with.
And *why* have they not been sued over Thunderbird yet??
ISTR you aren't necessarily infringing on the name if it's not the same kind of product. There's probably lots of legalese wrapped around this, but Ford's gonna go after someone who makes a vehicle named "Thunderbird" but there's damn little they can do if someone names a piece of software "Thunderbird."
IIRC there was a "Mustang BBS" way back when, and Ford didn't pester Mustang Software overmuch about that either.
I'm having difficulty finding the changelog. My office has been running subird for about 6 months now. It works well for what we're doing. (Small office) but it would be nice to see it grow into something a little more directly in competition with outlook. That allowed multiple users to post to the same calendar but keep their records identified by their user.
I really can't wait for a sync to palm button. It will make my palm pilot so much more useful.
I just tried out Sunbird, and it's pretty nice. It's also a bit too complex/takes up too much screen estate. Not saying it's a bad program, but just that I don't need that much functionality in a day-to-day environment.
I like to keep my to-do list on my desktop constantly along with a small calendar, and I think Rainlendar is the perfect tool for that. Takes very little memory and is Open Source. You can only run it in Windows though. Skinnable too so it looks pretty.
Here's a link to the website: http://www.ipi.fi/~rainy/index.php?pn=pr ojects&pro ject=rainlendar
(I'm not affiliated with the author in any way...just like the product.
But will it be as slow as that other Mozilla program known as thunderbird. I'm using a P II 266 as I just graduated from university and was too poor to buy a new one while I was there for 5 years. I use evolution for email, because if I install Thunderbird, typing and email causes the display to fall behind my moderate typing speed of 30 wpm. It's unbearably slow. This is on linux though. I remember it being faster on windows last time I tried. BTW, speed of firefox is fine.
I like it's simple layout. Used some previous version before, which was an extension to Firefox or Thunderbird, but that stopped working after an upgrade.
I could import my old calendar into this new Sunbird, which is nice. (The import was not difficult, but finding the files in the insane directory jungle all these Mozilla projects create was hard. Turned out to be buried in "C:\Documents and Settings\xxx\Application Data\Phoenix\Profiles\default\9gltk3bn.slt\Calenda r\". Why is it so hard to tell these p
this is what we are currently using. I is an awesome groupware calendar. exports in vcal/ical and allows you to view other users calendars overlayed with yours.
Full administration through the web interface (JS), all you need is apache and php - all our users love it. This is the perfect small business opensource calendar. A few small things I'd like, but hey - I can hack it to do what I want too:)
I'm a big Linux booster out here. A year ago, I convinced the "powers that be" to convert our shop to Linux desktops. They did, and we have some 40 desktops with about 10 (and shrinking) windows clients now.
Sure, we have Firefox and Openoffice and Evolution. But here's the kicker, there is no Exchange alternative (Opengroupware ain't there yet) that can work with Evolution, or for that matter no non-browser based collab software that works with Gnome (and lets be brutally, this is where the corp Linux desktop is headed).
Now the office really needs the functionality of Exchange as we live and die by meetings and tasks. I slapped myself hard in the head yesterday when I recommended that we install Exchange as a replacement for that really sweet Qmail/Vpopmail/IMAP setup that I installed two years ago. But I had no choice!!!
So every mention of another standalone calendar client with everyone still forgetting about that missing server-side link just drives me crazy! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the effort, and the calendar client looks nice, but designing a front end without thought for collabaration on the ass end is a bit short sighted.
This is the piece of the puzzle that is preventing shops like mine from completely moving from the dark side. Microsoft knows this and charges through the nose for Exchange CAL and server licenses.
I can live without another story about Yet Another Standalone Calendar.
Theres always a big bruhaha whenever MS comes out with a product or feature not 100% origional and unique. Why ignore it when OSS does it (and blantantly so)?
That customization interface has been in Mozilla suite, Firefox and Thunderbird for a *long* time. Who cribbed from who, troll?
And what is wrong with copying interfaces? Where did Window's, Mac OS's and X11's window manager concept come from? (Hint: it wasn't Apple, Microsoft, or X).
In this case, it's pretty clear that the Mozilla suite's toolbar editor is pretty much a widget-for-widget, if not pixel-for-pixel knockoff of Cocoa's.
And while I certainly don't think Apple is the font of all wisdom, even I've gotta say this is far from the only example of OSS copying interface features from the Mac. Frankly, I'd be happy if they copied less from Windows and more from the Mac OS.:)
No, it was not in the Mozilla suite (aka Seamonkey). In fact, it still isn't. It was first seen in Internet Explorer on Macintosh, then (with a lot of refinement) in Mac OS X 10.0, then copied almost pixel by pixel (with an improvement in behaviour) to Firefox.
Is it a big deal? No. But at least don't refute its history.
Internet Explorer for Mac Release Dates [wikipedia.org] (IE 5 was March 2000) Mac OS X 10.0 Review, Page 10 [arstechnica.com] "The real fun starts when you select "Customize Toolbar..." from the "View" menu (or shift-click the toolbar widget in the window title bar). The contents of the window are replaced by a palette of toolbar widgets shamelessly reminiscent of Internet Explorer's toolbar customization feature." Independent Mac OS X 10.1 Release Date [arstechnica.com] Mac OS X was released on March 24th, 2001, with a suggested retail price of $129 and a version number of 10.0. First Customize Toolbar In Any Mozilla Product [mozilla.org] A few of the features new to this release include: Customizable toolbar. Phoenix 0.1 Release Date [mozillazine.org] (September 23rd, 2002; over a year later)
You seem to be a big proponent of recreating the wheel. see iCal is pretty sweet for calendaring and _individuals_ plans. it isn't great for collaborative calendaring but i lays a good groundwork for it, it's possible to make iCal a lot better, but the groundwork is there.
sunbird uses the same thing, why fix something that isn't broke? besides the best part of this is, you can export your iCal calendar and load it into Sunbird and it does the exact same thing. it coexists with iCal, unlike Outlook which
"it's possible to make iCal a lot better, but the groundwork is there"
Good point, and oftentimes I do wish it were possible to hack proprietary software to add missing features and the like.
How do you suggest I contribute, though? Should I submit a bug to Bugzilla titled "Interface is wretched"? Should I write to the developers with a point-by-point list of what might be improved, or would they consider this whining?
I suppose I could commission a graphic artist to make it look better, but iCal already s
And where did Firefox rip it off of? Yeah, that's right: the "customize toolbar" panel built into Mac OS X's Cocoa framework.
An exact copy is never better than the original. In order to make it better, it must, at a minimum, be different (not that everything different is automatically better).
While I don't refute that Firefox and Sunbird rippped off Mac OS X, they did manage to improve it a little. In Firefox and Sunbird, dragging a tool icon out of the window and into the tool bar causes it to disappear from the window. This makes it much easier to find the tool icons you're not using.
While confusing to Mac users like myself (and thus, probably not a good idea on the Mac at all), it is a better way to do it.
I think I was trying to point out that the Firefox developers could have come up with a way of doing things, crossplatform or no, that didn't give the appearance of ripping interface features shamelessly off the Mac. And in the process, who knows--maybe they could have come up with something better than Cocoa's customize toolbar panel.
I mean, it seems to me you could just as easily say: iCal works, so why mess with it?
True. I still think it's dangerous to suggest the "customize toolbar" dialog couldn't possibly be improved or completely reimplemented... there's always a zillion ways to do these things that no one's imagined yet.
It just rubs me the wrong way when you hear (from some people) open source foo is superior to proprietary foo, or more conducive to creativity, or more original or whatever. Because even as they speak, the other hand's busy ripping off proprietary innovations like this toolbar interface.
Yep, it's never helpful to say open source is always superior to proprietary software, or vice-versa for that matter. I shudder to imagine what the world would be like without Apache, but I think I could probably live without Sunbird... as you might have guessed.:)
Well, you'd think the Firefox developers could come up with a better (easier, faster, more efficient, more intuitive) way to do it than Mac OS X does. Like I said elsewhere, you can't innovate and improve upon an original by making a direct copy. And I don't think there's any way to look at those two screenshots and say one wasn't ripped off the other.
You know, there's KOrganizer and loads of other that are free and actually useable..
KOrganizer has some annoying bugs. For example, you can export to a web page, which is good. But what if you want to do that automatically? Check the preferences, and there is an "export to HTML automatically on ever save" option. But it does nothing, and is not mentioned in the documentation.
Or consider KOrganizer's todo list handling. It's cool that it supports sub-todo items. However, in the "what's next" list,
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Saturday February 05, 2005 @03:05PM (#11584111)
Sunbird is a stand-alone version of Mozilla Calendar (which is linked in the sidebar on the Sunbird page). Mozilla Calendar is an extension that you can install into Mozilla, Firefox, or Thunderbird. In other words: Sunbird is not going to be integrated into Thunderbird, as the project it's based on already is.
If they went down that road, they would be in danger of just reintegrating everything, and might as well just abandon the standalone applications and devote resources to Seamonkey.
Have they/are they planning on integrating it in to thunderbird? It looks a lot like Outlook's calendar, I think integrating it with Thunderbird (and even Firefox? Maybe let you add items through Firefox?) would be their greatest 'next' step.
The Mozilla Calendar Project is actually a plugin for Firefox and Thunderbird that adds a calendar to either program. Mozilla Sunbird is the standalone version of this.
The calendar plugin doesn't really "integrate" into Thunderbird as most would like, though, which is why the Lightning project [mozilla.org] was begun (it was mentioned on Slashdot [slashdot.org] in December.) The Lightning project aims for "tight" integration with Thunderbird, so you get more of a seamless program to handle all your email, calendar, contact and task needs. Expect to see more about Lightning later this year.
Any circuit design must contain at least one part which is obsolete, two parts
which are unobtainable, and three parts which are still under development.
Waiting, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Palm Desktop 4.1.4 doesn't "require" a Palm device (Score:2, Informative)
ps
I hope Palm doesn't screw it up by changing it. Like they screwed up PDAs by making them too large. The Palm V and Vx were perfect in terms of size and I'd buy one today for $400+ if it could do email in that form-factor. Until then, I'm sticking with my Palm Vx because if the PDA is to
Re:Waiting, eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:4, Informative)
Mozilla can't be integrated with OOo, because of licensing issues, and the enormous bloat it would create, given the two different codebases.
In any case, a web-utilities suite and an office suite aren't enough to constitute a web browser. They would be enough for a simplistic out-of-the-box experience though.
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:4, Funny)
Isn't that some kind of vi clone? (he said as he hid under the table, cowering in fear...)
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:2, Interesting)
That could ultimately lead to a whole range of Mozilla based products. Sounds cool to me!
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:4, Interesting)
What I'd *LOVE* is for such a PHP IDE to have code-folding and a tree view that actually checks my *includes* for functions and objects that will be used. Not to mention, the potential for live-testing would be neato.
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:2)
It's Komodo from ActiveState.
http://www.activestate.com/Products
I've never used it so I'm not commenting on its quality.
Try Quanta Plus (Score:2)
It does most of what you want including code folding and even integrates with gubed (see freshmeat,net), the php debugger written in PHP.
Qunata is ACE, apart from the odd bit of extra unneccesary screen painting which really shows up if you are running coLinux and FreeNX instead of booting natively (sometimes I have to do it that way).
It doesn't check your includes yet...
Sam
Re:Coming Soon: Mozilla, The OS (Score:5, Interesting)
OEone HomeBase.
Check out this screenshot:
http://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/bigbBdSgP.jpg [linux.org.ru]
Although it's hard to find info about it, the product integrated OpenOffice into a Desktop written entirely in XUL.
The System Tray (Score:5, Insightful)
There are third party fixes to this, and for all I know extensions that do the same thing, but it would be really nice to have system tray minimization as default behavior.
Re:The System Tray (Score:2, Insightful)
With Thunderbird, if you save a letter to send later, you have no way (that I can find) to send it, you have to restart the program for it to send it self, (in other words, there is no send button, just a recieve button)... Maybe I am wrong, or have the concept mixed up, but, that's how I see it.
Re:The System Tray (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The System Tray (Score:3, Informative)
File Menu --> Send Unsent Messages
Re:Send later with Thunderbird (Score:2)
Re:The System Tray (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The System Tray (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The System Tray (Score:2)
My problem is that it won't minimize the "system tray" (or equivalent) in either KDE or GNOME. It boggles my mind as to why they can't just add that relatively simple feature. Ugh, come on people! This is 2005, not 1995.
I've been using Evolution for ages because of just that one missing feature. I don't care for Evolution because the S/MIME support limited (no PKCS#11 support) or broken.
Re:The System Tray (Score:2)
http://powerpro.webeddie.com/
Is that seriously a show-stopper? (Score:3, Informative)
My current solution is PowerMenu [veridicus.com]; it's tiny, freeware, and gives you a "minimize to tray" option for all windows. I also use it to reorganize things on my taskbar (e.g., comparing old output with new, I can have the older document on the left.
Re:The System Tray (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The System Tray (Score:5, Funny)
Core media player (Score:2)
Ok, i think I'm not making much sense I am very sick, but if you can decypher this, then enjoy.
I've not been waiting (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I've not been waiting (Score:2)
Of course it is unstable now.
Nice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nice (Score:4, Informative)
I know this isn't the place to ask for tech support so I'm not asking for any. I'm just saying they didn't make it obvious to me how to install Sunbird.
Re:Nice (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nice (Score:2)
Re:Nice (Score:2, Informative)
sudo ln -s
Re:Nice (Score:2)
I had to move over to Evolution (that has e-mail and calendar). So far so good. I'll definitely try this latest Sunbird release to see if it works on amd64 linux.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Doesn't solve my problem (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Doesn't solve my problem (Score:2)
I have yahoo calendar. A desk calendar ( you know, the one you doodle on --well, not you, me). I also have a calendar in my cell phone, and one at work in my ARRGGHHH!!! lotus notes.
In the last year, I have entered 2 items in the calendar. And never looked back.
I do my tasks in a wiki, as ascii text. Much easier, much faster. not stuck to one pc. (i use 10 machines on a regular basis (home - 2, office - 3, other office - 2 , other office 3, not counting all the "friends" I support when food is
Does it work with Exchange? (Score:2, Interesting)
I've looked at the site, but can't see any mention of it.
Re:Does it work with Exchange? (Score:2)
Nope. Right now the Mozilla Calendar Project and, hence, the standalone Mozilla Sunbird, only support open calendering protocols (CalDAV and ICS). While there is demand for Exchange support, noone has stepped up to offer it. I'd guess, as Sunbird and the Lightning Project [mozilla.org] mature (and if enough demand builds up), someone may release a pay component that handles Exchange connectivity first... followed by an open source on
Re:Does it work with Exchange? (Score:3, Informative)
2- Kmail (or Kontacto) + plugin for exchange.
3- Microsoft Exchange web access.
The days of "I stay with windows becouse of outlook+exchange are over"
Come on, you don't need Windows
Re:Does it work with Exchange? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm a UNIX SysAdmin, I've been using Linux on the Desktop (not exclusively)
for many years. None of the solutions you mention works well... Believe me,
I have tried them all. They aren't anywhere near as easy to use as a mail/calendar interface as OUTLOOK+Exchange on a native Windows system.
Nor are they as good as using Outlook2000 with CodeWeavers CrossOver office on a Linux box.
Maybe you are right about "don't need", but I would say
PocketPC sync (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, you can blame MS on not opening the ActiveSync protocol, but it should be possible to synchronize Sunbird or Thunderbird with a small client application running on the PocketPC, similar to how IntelliSync works.
PalmOS sync (Score:3, Informative)
Re:PocketPC sync (Score:2)
Thunderbird synch with Symbian would be nice, too - without it, I'm still not really using the T-bird address book as a real contact manager.
Good job (Score:5, Interesting)
The sooner that Exchange is emulated in OSS, the sooner there will be no reason to run Microsoft products on the backend for small and medium sized offices.
* IIS? Gone with Apache.
* File/Print? Gone with Samba.
* Email? Not so fast. We like the groupware functionality of Exchange.
And of course, consultants who don't know any better see that there's no OSS to fulfil the groupware need, and therefore, there's no reason to learn/pitch Apache/Samba. Why bother with those when you can have the "nice integration" of MS products? Once Sunbird/OpenGroupware, et al reaches the ability of invitations, seeing busy/free on other user's calendars, and inviting resources, then Redmond will run real scared.
Good job, Sunbird. You're the missing link and you're looking good.
Re:Good job (Score:2)
For small shops, less than 100 employees, i think it may still be free. Otherwise you can get some peices of it for $50/employee/year.
Re:Good job (Score:2)
I think it would be better if Sunbird and the OSS community designed a good calendaring/email (Sunbird/T-Bird) solution that worked well stand-alone because it would be easi
Re:Good job (Score:3, Interesting)
My organization will in a month or two migrate from our #^$#@% Exchange 5.5 server to Bynari Insight Server [bynari.net]. It uses open source components (Postfix, OpenLDAP, etc) and some proprietary components to put together a pretty good set of features. Our IT director did a TCO study, and Bynari (along with all the other Linux options) costs a small fraction of what Exchange would cost. And we think it wi
There's an even larger picture.... (Score:4, Interesting)
When iCalendar [ietf.org] support is built into everything, it'll be very easy for public groups to see each other's meetings, and for individuals to participate.
I easily lose track of when the Seattle XP programmers, Seattle Perl programmers, Seattle Python programmers, Seattle Robotics Society, Seattle Cosmic, Seattle Wireless, Seattle Java, Seattle C++, Seattle Wikipedia, Seattle FreeBSD Users group, Greater Seattle Linux Users Group, Seattle Bloggers, East side Bloggers, Seattle Futurists, etc., etc., etc.,
Right now, I can only track 1 group at a time. "Is Seattle Python meeting this weekend?" "No?" "Guess there's nobody to see this weekend."
But, as you can see from my short list above (compared to how much activity is actually going on,) there's actually a whole lot going on that I might be interested in visiting.
As Automatic Calendaring picks up, the public will recognize the power of its ability to communicate and organize.
Previously, this is something that only people who could afford secretaries could experience.
Open source groupware standards (Score:3, Informative)
GroupDAV [groupdav.org] is a subset of DAV designed to handle this task. The draft version of the spec is available already, and unlike most new protocols, its primary goal is to be simple enough for widespread implementation. GroupDAV uses the vCalendar/iCalendar and vCard standard data formats, and a simp
Palm? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Palm? (Score:2)
It requires a little bit of legwork, but it's quite doable. Had I a longer commute, I might start doing it again.
Re:Palm? (Score:2)
For the record, I have my wife behind three firewalls: the firewall hardwired into our Linksys router, the firewall that came with WindowsXP SP2, and the Zo
Re:Palm? (Score:2)
ScheduleWorld works far better (Score:3, Interesting)
Wait for 0.3 (Score:3, Funny)
Tuesday, February 4th, 2005: The Sunbird team is proud to announce its first official release: Sunbird 0.2 for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. You can find builds for the different platforms on our download page.
Maybe the day-of-the-week problem will be fixed in 0.3;-)
Release date.... (Score:5, Funny)
You'd think a site for a calendar app would be able to get it's own release date correct...
otherwise, it's a neat app
Too heavy (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Too heavy (Score:2)
New GOOD Software is driving me batty (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an early adopter and I admit it. It's one of the things I have to deal with. My concern however is, just how many people in the everyday world are willing to stop using Outlook to learn an entirely new way of doing things. Some apps, such as browsers, don't matter as much. A browser is a browser, with a few features here and there, but the underlying concept is the same. Type in a URL and go. Other things though...aye...
Re:New GOOD Software is driving me batty (Score:2)
I'd better wrap this up before I start talking about fuzzy-assed bunnies or something.
Less than stable on Mac OS X (Score:2)
Repeated tr
Re:Less than stable on Mac OS X (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Less than stable on Mac OS X (Score:2)
Unfortunately, I have yet to see an open-source offering that is competitive with the Apple software. They tend to be buggy, they tend to be slow, and they tend to be awkward to use.
Given my linux background, I'll keep on trying the open-source things every few months. Surely they will at least become less buggy, although
Another impending naming debacle? (Score:4, Funny)
Had to chuckle when reading this on the main page:
At the moment the "Sunbird" name is a project name. It is not official and may change in the future.
At least they got that out of the way from the get-go.
Re:Another impending naming debacle? (Score:2)
And *why* have they not been sued over Thunderbird yet??
Re:Another impending naming debacle? (Score:2)
Re:Another impending naming debacle? (Score:3, Interesting)
IIRC there was a "Mustang BBS" way back when, and Ford didn't pester Mustang Software overmuch about that either.
Where is the changelog? (Score:2)
I really can't wait for a sync to palm button. It will make my palm pilot so much more useful.
Rainlendar (Score:3, Interesting)
I like to keep my to-do list on my desktop constantly along with a small calendar, and I think Rainlendar is the perfect tool for that. Takes very little memory and is Open Source. You can only run it in Windows though. Skinnable too so it looks pretty.
Here's a link to the website:
http://www.ipi.fi/~rainy/index.php?pn=p
(I'm not affiliated with the author in any way...just like the product.
But... (Score:2)
Re:But... (Score:2)
Nice but still full of bugs (Score:2)
I could import my old calendar into this new Sunbird, which is nice. (The import was not difficult, but finding the files in the insane directory jungle all these Mozilla projects create was hard. Turned out to be buried in "C:\Documents and Settings\xxx\Application Data\Phoenix\Profiles\default\9gltk3bn.slt\Calend a r\". Why is it so hard to tell these p
Here's an often overlooked util (Score:3, Informative)
this is what we are currently using. I is an awesome groupware calendar. exports in vcal/ical and allows you to view other users calendars overlayed with yours.
Full administration through the web interface (JS), all you need is apache and php - all our users love it. This is the perfect small business opensource calendar. A few small things I'd like, but hey - I can hack it to do what I want too
All this doesn't really matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, we have Firefox and Openoffice and Evolution. But here's the kicker, there is no Exchange alternative (Opengroupware ain't there yet) that can work with Evolution, or for that matter no non-browser based collab software that works with Gnome (and lets be brutally, this is where the corp Linux desktop is headed).
Now the office really needs the functionality of Exchange as we live and die by meetings and tasks. I slapped myself hard in the head yesterday when I recommended that we install Exchange as a replacement for that really sweet Qmail/Vpopmail/IMAP setup that I installed two years ago. But I had no choice!!!
So every mention of another standalone calendar client with everyone still forgetting about that missing server-side link just drives me crazy! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the effort, and the calendar client looks nice, but designing a front end without thought for collabaration on the ass end is a bit short sighted.
This is the piece of the puzzle that is preventing shops like mine from completely moving from the dark side. Microsoft knows this and charges through the nose for Exchange CAL and server licenses.
I can live without another story about Yet Another Standalone Calendar.
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
And what is wrong with copying interfaces? Where did Window's, Mac OS's and X11's window manager concept come from? (Hint: it wasn't Apple, Microsoft, or X).
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
It amazes me the way some people think that all innovation comes from Apple.
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
And while I certainly don't think Apple is the font of all wisdom, even I've gotta say this is far from the only example of OSS copying interface features from the Mac. Frankly, I'd be happy if they copied less from Windows and more from the Mac OS.
Actually, Microsoft's (Score:4, Informative)
No, it was not in the Mozilla suite (aka Seamonkey). In fact, it still isn't. It was first seen in Internet Explorer on Macintosh, then (with a lot of refinement) in Mac OS X 10.0, then copied almost pixel by pixel (with an improvement in behaviour) to Firefox.
Is it a big deal? No. But at least don't refute its history.
Internet Explorer for Mac Release Dates [wikipedia.org] (IE 5 was March 2000)
Mac OS X 10.0 Review, Page 10 [arstechnica.com] "The real fun starts when you select "Customize Toolbar..." from the "View" menu (or shift-click the toolbar widget in the window title bar). The contents of the window are replaced by a palette of toolbar widgets shamelessly reminiscent of Internet Explorer's toolbar customization feature."
Independent Mac OS X 10.1 Release Date [arstechnica.com] Mac OS X was released on March 24th, 2001, with a suggested retail price of $129 and a version number of 10.0.
First Customize Toolbar In Any Mozilla Product [mozilla.org] A few of the features new to this release include: Customizable toolbar.
Phoenix 0.1 Release Date [mozillazine.org] (September 23rd, 2002; over a year later)
Oops. (Score:2)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2, Interesting)
sunbird uses the same thing, why fix something that isn't broke? besides the best part of this is, you can export your iCal calendar and load it into Sunbird and it does the exact same thing. it coexists with iCal, unlike Outlook which
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Good point, and oftentimes I do wish it were possible to hack proprietary software to add missing features and the like.
How do you suggest I contribute, though? Should I submit a bug to Bugzilla titled "Interface is wretched"? Should I write to the developers with a point-by-point list of what might be improved, or would they consider this whining?
I suppose I could commission a graphic artist to make it look better, but iCal already s
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
An exact copy is never better than the original. In order to make it better, it must, at a minimum, be different (not that everything different is automatically better).
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
While I don't refute that Firefox and Sunbird rippped off Mac OS X, they did manage to improve it a little. In Firefox and Sunbird, dragging a tool icon out of the window and into the tool bar causes it to disappear from the window. This makes it much easier to find the tool icons you're not using.
While confusing to Mac users like myself (and thus, probably not a good idea on the Mac at all), it is a better way to do it.
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
I mean, it seems to me you could just as easily say: iCal works, so why mess with it?
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
It just rubs me the wrong way when you hear (from some people) open source foo is superior to proprietary foo, or more conducive to creativity, or more original or whatever. Because even as they speak, the other hand's busy ripping off proprietary innovations like this toolbar interface.
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like iCal... (Score:2)
Re:whine whine (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:whine whine (Score:3, Funny)
You assume we all run some form of Unix.
Ok, so there's also planner-mode in emacs, which works just fine under unix, windows, and probably whatever platform you fancy.
Re:whine whine (Score:2)
KOrganizer has some annoying bugs. For example, you can export to a web page, which is good. But what if you want to do that automatically? Check the preferences, and there is an "export to HTML automatically on ever save" option. But it does nothing, and is not mentioned in the documentation.
Or consider KOrganizer's todo list handling. It's cool that it supports sub-todo items. However, in the "what's next" list,
Re:Is it integrated with Thunderbird yet? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Is it integrated with Thunderbird yet? (Score:2)
Thunderbird integration and the Lightning project (Score:5, Interesting)
The Mozilla Calendar Project is actually a plugin for Firefox and Thunderbird that adds a calendar to either program. Mozilla Sunbird is the standalone version of this.
The calendar plugin doesn't really "integrate" into Thunderbird as most would like, though, which is why the Lightning project [mozilla.org] was begun (it was mentioned on Slashdot [slashdot.org] in December.) The Lightning project aims for "tight" integration with Thunderbird, so you get more of a seamless program to handle all your email, calendar, contact and task needs. Expect to see more about Lightning later this year.
Re:mozilla composer (Score:2)