VoIP Providers Given 120 Days to Provide 911 Service 626
linuxwrangler writes "According to this SFGate article, federal regulators have given VoIP providers 120 days to provide 911 service to their customers. The vote came after testimony from people including a Florida woman who had her infant die after being unable to call 911 from her internet phone. VoIP providers are also required to notify their customers of the deadline and of the limitations of VoIP 911 service."
120 days.... (Score:5, Funny)
Wow...I'd hate to be head of that project...
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:120 days.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's proof that the feds don't CARE what the technical limitations are. If you want to offer dialtone, you have to support 911 emergency calls. If a given technology can't support 911 calls then they don't want it being used for telephone service.
People have died because of this. They don't really care why it's difficult to fix.
Somehow I think the technical difficulties will be solved. Even if it means a database of IP address to geographic location mappings.
Re:120 days.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Only if IP's corresponded reliably to physical locations, which is broken to start with and gets even works when you start throwing in VPN's and tunnels.
Re:GPS? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:120 days.... (Score:2, Insightful)
What about ISP's that give dynamic addresses to Cable / DSL ?
Or maybe someone who runs their own asterisk box for family / friends and all calls go out using only 1 account ?
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I'm sure Vonage (and others) could have put a "hair dryer" style sticker on the top of the ATA that read something like "Warning -- Do not use for 911 calls if you are in danger", but the information (last I looked, anyway) was available as to what happens when you dial 911.
Hmph.
---
Read this [slashdot.org] if you liked calling BBS's.
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Informative)
The florida case was the woman's fault. Nothing more.
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I'm sure Vonage (and others) could have put a "hair dryer" style sticker on the top of the ATA that read something like "Warning -- Do not use for 911 calls if you are in danger", but the information (last I looked, anyway) was available as to what happens when you dial 911."
A reasonable point, though it merits mention that Vonage is currently being sued by the state of Texas [tmcnet.com] for intentionally misleading their customers about their 911 coverage.
Personally, I don't see what the problem is with giving them four months to handle the technical aspects of this. They've got everyone's zip code and (I would assume) a directory of each zip code's appropriate 911 response center. How hard is it to make these ends meet? I would think the chick that worked the switchboard at the Mayberry RFD phone company could handle this.
Re:120 days.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Informative)
The PSAP information (911 Tandem switch) is all located in the Local Exchange Routing Guide (LERG). All the VoIP providers need to do is buy a subscription to the LERG from Telcordia and they will have all the information they need. The problem is, that in order to connect to the PSAP you need to be a CLEC with an interconnect Agreement with the RBOC (Verizon, SBC) for the LATA. You also need to build dedicated, diverse trunks into the PSAP switch. Since most VoIP providers are virtual phone companies, they don't have facilities in the LATA where their customers are and therefore they can't build trunks into the PSAP.
Connecting to the PSAP is the easy part, finding out the address of one of my DSL customers that I give a dynamic IP address to is the hard part. I predict a lot of police/fire showing up at my NOC because that is the address on record for the IP.
What's really frightening about this. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:VOIP providers don't need this mandate, Bells d (Score:3, Informative)
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Informative)
Well, the issue is that VoIP is mobile. You can take your voip router at home and plug it in at a friend's down the street or on the other side of the globe, and it'll work. Meanwhile, the 911 operator thinks you're at home.
That's why part of this says that the VoIP providers have to have a way for users to update their location.
Of course, I don't kn
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the WSJ article: "To get 911 service from some Internet-calling services, customers have to register their address, on top of the normal signup process. But even some customers who take that extra step -- as Ms. Waller did -- are surprised to find that their emergency calls are relegated to second-class status."
You are such a jerk for blaming the victims. What are they supposed to do, test the system as we are repeatedly admonished not to do? Get some understanding *yourself*.
Re:120 days.... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Today we find VOIP phones that are indistinguishable from traditional POTS devices. They are intentionally designed to emulate traditional POTS phones. Yet, somehow, your expectation is that the caller is supposed to somehow "know" whether it's POTS or not. This is unreasonable. Many times 9-1-1 callers are using whatever phone they happen upon under stressful conditions.
The 9-1-1 emergency number has been nearly universal throughout North America for about 37 years. The idea is simple; 9-1-1 works for things with dial tones.
I knew this was going to happen. Over two years ago I posted [slashdot.org] my thoughts and got modded as a troll. Anything that might impede sticking it to Ma Bell must be dismissed and derided. If you're going to compete with POTS, you're going to be expected to provide parity. That's means 9-1-1 service, no ifs ands or buts.
The solution is simple and obvious; VOIP customers will need to disclose the location of their devices so the phone company can route the 9-1-1 calls.
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, 911 is great, but you should aways have a backup plan, and that should mean having your local emergency numbers programed into your phone.
Re:120 days.... (Score:2)
People have died because of this. They don't really care why it's difficult to fix.
911 service only makes sense if you're using the thing as a fixed installation. If you're travelling with it, then what's the point?
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's only recently that E911 gave the emergency responders the ability to determine your address automatically. Asking people to know their present location isn't much. Asking them to memorize emergency numbers that they don't use often is.
What about cell phones? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What about cell phones? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is different because during most/ all of this time very few people had a cell as their primary phone. Even though cells did not provide 911, if an emergency happened at home, they could call 911 on their regular phone. Today, people using voip are generally using it as their main home phone, which means that it needs 911.
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Another possible solution is to put a GPS or some other sort of tracking device in the phone that is activated when a 911 call is made. Just like the current system where a little light goes off on a board, but it will be a light based off of some sort of global coordinates rather than a street address. They have devices that are accurate to within 50 feet or so, definitely c
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Insightful)
And IP address is a no-go. Basing location on where the cable is plugged in is hairy.
Either the operator asks where the emergency is, or the phone itself has some facility for setting/changing the location; those are the only sensible options, in my opinion.
Re:120 days.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you've got it exactly right: this is the first step towards saying "If your customers can't get in touch with emergency services easily, you can't offer this as a replacement for traditional home phone service."
As long as the VIOP companies understand this, I don't think we need to worry about some solution being found.
Re:Too Stupid to activate 911 Service (Score:3, Insightful)
But hidden away in the small print is the truth - Vonage's 911 isn't the equivalent of the E911 service that you will get with a POTS or cellular phone. 'Activating' the '911-type service' that Vonage provides doesn't give you full 911 functionality.
Run a trace route? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is like that russian pencil, Million dollar US space pen email I get all the time.
Re:Run a trace route? (Score:2)
You mean, untrue? [snopes.com]
How about reading the article? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, it is really useful to tell a recording where you are! If you RTFA:
Re:How about reading the article? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, it is really useful to tell a recording where you are!
Why not? When I call 411 on my cell phone, the automated system asks for City, State. Why can't 911 on VoIP do the same thing if the IP being used isn't registered? VoIP will need to account for both registered and unregistered IPs. If the IP is registered, then route the call to the mapped 911 call center. If the IP is not registered, the automated system can ask for City, State the same as 411 does and route appropriately.
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Informative)
As for the traceroute question, the answer is, "Yes." However, I expect to see some resistance on this from the other telecom providers since it means that there will have to be an automated mechanism for finding out what physical line an IP address is connected to that is queriable by third parties. I can imagine all sorts of abuse for this sort of thing, but it seems to be a necessity to ensure emergency services.
Re:120 days.... (Score:2)
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Informative)
So I get the impression the relatively straightforward cases, like VOIP on a home DSL line, are expected to be handled automatically, but the more complicated cases--tunneling your connection back through your home network or whatever--fall under some sort of "well, we warned you, and gave you a way to tell us where you were, it's not our fault if you didn't bother" defense.
--Bruce Fields
Re:120 days.... (Score:5, Funny)
You're telling me. I googled for 120 days [google.com] and my ass is still sore.
Out of top 10, 9 links point to DeSade's "120 Days of Sodom" (and Pasolini's movie depiction thereof in "Salo"), and as if it weren't enough trouble retrieving my bitten-off nipples back from the goddamn pigeons, the remaining link link points to something called "Windows XP Professional x64 Edition trial software", which I don't even wanna think about! Squick!
the real number (Score:4, Funny)
Now the question is... (Score:5, Interesting)
My cell phone works with 911 even if you cancel all other service to the phone. Does that mean broadband and Voip companies will have to do the same?
I always wondered why it was that my cell phone always has to have 911 access, yet Ma Bell can cut my service and I get no dial tone if I don't pay my bills.
Re:Now the question is... (Score:2, Informative)
When you don't pay your bill, they block you out of all the channels except the 911 channel. Maybe VoIP providers can use this as a guideline.
Re:Now the question is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Now the question is... (Score:2)
Re:Now the question is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now the question is... (Score:2)
Granted, I have always paid my bill so I can't tell you for sure. But upon moving into an apartment, I have no dial tone and thus cannot call anywhere until it is hooked up. I assumed it would be the same upon disconnection. No dial tone = no call
Re:Now the question is... (Score:3, Informative)
True, but a lot of places have stopped cutting out dial tone when there's no service available. When I moved into my apartment several years ago, the place had tone. It couldn't get incoming calls and it could call anywhere (you'd get a recorded message telling y
Re:Now the question is... (Score:3)
Re:Now the question is... (Score:2)
One soloution (Score:4, Interesting)
It would be a short term soloution indeed , but then 120 days is a very short term
Not really (Score:2)
Re:Not really (Score:2)
Also if im not mistaken cross over handsets already exist so it would only be a case of getting a supply and starting to ship them out.
(I can't remember if that is 100% but i am fairly sure i read an artical about cross over handsets a few months back
I have vonage... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I have vonage... (Score:5, Informative)
Vonage makes it very clear about how their 911 service works. If their service isn't good enough for what you need, just get a regular phone, and plug it into the POTS jack. You will have regular 911 service from there, and you don't need POTS service to be able to call 911.
Re:I have vonage... (Score:2)
Re:I have vonage... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I have vonage... (Score:3, Informative)
8x8 Already Has It (Score:2, Informative)
Stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
You cannot be guaranteed the same level of reliability with VoIP. Public telephone service operators are held to strict regulations regarding PSTN service, ISPs are not.
Something could break with a person's cable or DSL service and I would have to call and file a trouble ticket. Then, maybe 5 days later, a truck will arrive at their house to fix it. The next internet worm could be released at any time, causing major congestion on the internet which hind
Re:Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
You are missing the point. The government wants technology to advance and the old phone system to be replaced. If this is going to happen, new technologies have to offer the same emergency features. "Get a land line" will eventually not be an option, when it is no longer cost-effective for the telcos to provide them. The internet is not reliable? The Internet was designed to be reliable in the face of node failure, it was one of the primary design goals of the original Arpanet. The military wanted a system that could get messages from A to C even if B failed, by finding an alternate B. Your DSL service may not be reliable, but this is not the Internet. There is a difference, and it is an important one.
Why is this being regulated? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why can't they?
I mean, if someone wants to pay less and go the cheap route, should they really expect the same amount of service?
The government should NOT be regulating this kind of stuff, IMHO.
They cant (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:They cant (Score:3, Insightful)
The want to be Internet Telephony providers. Their networks aren't designed to be carriers of last resort (if you don't know what that means look it up). They aren't and can't be required to provide SLA's the way CLECs, ILECs, and RBOCs are. VoIP is not telephone service, it is a data service.
This ruling is hairy because now it gives the CLECs and ILECs the precedent to say "Hey, you said these guys weren't subject to regulation, but you regulated them wrt 911, we
Re:Why is this being regulated? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, then a few people died, lawsuits ensued, and we wound up where we are now.
Why would you expect it to be any different?
In this case, however, I think it's a good thing. VZ and the other encumbents were playing the "oh, it's HAAAARDDD to open our 911 systems", which has to be a load of horse shit.
Re:Why is this being regulated? (Score:3)
[...] they really expect the same amount of service?
The government should NOT be regulating this kind of stuff, IMHO.
For that matter, why should landline providers have to offer this type of service? Or cell phone companies? 911 isn't free. The spectrum, circuits, and caller-locating equipment costs money, all of which increases costs for consumers. Why must the government meddle in such things?
I almost never
Re:Why is this being regulated? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no expectation of being able to use his phone in an emergency. By your reasoning, everyone should be forced to carry a phone line capable of dialing 911. Whether or not you want to call someone a cheapskate is not relevant. You should have no assumption of saftey if you are not at a location where you have control over t
Re:Why is this being regulated? (Score:3, Interesting)
Last time... (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop making laws right after (Score:2, Insightful)
Libertarians? (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems against libertarian principles to require anything of VOIP providers (other than that they not defraud people).
E.g. they didn't say it had 911 service. Nor did they say it would work in a blackout.
Yet it is hard to argue with (cue violins) dead babies.
Re:Libertarians? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but they is good eatin'
Re:Libertarians? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Libertarians? (Score:3, Interesting)
Implications for Skype? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Implications for Skype? (Score:3, Informative)
Skyped offered a statement day offering to work with the FCC on E911.
Infant died? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Infant died? (Score:2)
Well, that's what TFA said, anyway.
Re:Infant died? (Score:3, Informative)
Finding a neighbor with a phone can take a few minutes. Sometimes (like during the middle of the day) not many people are home. During the middle of the night, not many are awake and some who are will not answer. A few minutes is a lifetime (or the end of one) when someone's not breathing.
There was a day (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry to hear about the infant dying. But shouldn't VOIP users if they are technically savvy to use VOIP also be responsible and be sure that they can dial (ie have phone number handy) an emergency service?
As another idea, why not have an old cell phone around that is plugged in. You do not need to have a cell plan to dial 911.
Re:There was a day (Score:3, Insightful)
I went with Time Warner's VoIP because it had hard wired 911 we know where you are service, that is what kept me off of Vonage.
Also what do you do if your 3 or 4 year old is smart enough to do 911 but has a problem telling you where they live other than the state?
There are lots of instances where E9
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
those days are gone (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know how widespread this problem is, but the "direct calling" idea is no longer an option in some locations. Sad, really.
well, then- (Score:3, Funny)
My baby could DIE!
Most already have it... (Score:3, Insightful)
But then I gotta wonder, how loosely do they define "VoIP" services? I mean, Skype is a VoIP service, technically. You can use it to connect to the PSTN and dial phone numbers if you pay for the priviledge, right? It's outgoing only though. But how in the heck would they handle this sort of thing? Configure the client with where you are? Would this law even apply?
These are the kind of problems I see with regulating this sort of thing too early.
Re:Most already have it... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Most already have it... (Score:5, Informative)
That is the problem with this ruling. It mandates that the VoIP providers provide full 911 service, but doesn't require any cooperation from their main competitors the ILECs. So, if the ILECs choose not to give out the dedicated 911 numbers so that VoIP providers can route directly to them, or if they decide to charge exhorbitant fees (more likely), the FCC has given them a free get out of jail card here. The ILECs by simply not doing anything can put all the VoIP providers out of business now.
Re:Most already have it... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Most already have it... (Score:3, Interesting)
I worked for a while at a CLEC actually setting up our 911 interconnection with the ILEC here and the 911 call centers had routable numbers.
Looks like I have 120 days (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, though, I must be ignorant on this subject. I had no idea you couldn't dial 911 from a VOIP telephone. To be honest, I never gave it much thought.
A Few Ideas... (Score:2)
Regarding that problem, there are several issues. A traceroute or database of who is using top-level IPs and their locations is a workaround. Perhaps a better idea is new and open VoIP standards. There could be a way to code the "area" into the data packet if an emergency number
Not ready for homes (Score:3, Interesting)
If it's not ready for the home, then it's not ready. VoIP should start with businesses. If you really want it in your house, I believe it should come with the understanding that 911 is either going to be suboptimal or just plain unreliable.
I use Vonage and I have 911 service (Score:3, Informative)
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is here. At least with Vonage, the make sure you understand you need to configure 911. User responsibility...go figure.
"the feds" (Score:3, Interesting)
I can see one major disadvantage already (Score:5, Funny)
(Caller dials 911)
Caller: Help! Emergency! My baby's not breathing!
Operator: OMG!
Caller: Send help right away!
Operator: A/S/L?
How saddening (Score:3, Insightful)
Note to self: The 911 system is based on technology working correctly, have a backup system.
But nobody complains when... (Score:3, Insightful)
Or you call 911 and get a recording that they're overwhelmed with calls at the time...
Or when you work at a 7-11 and a guy robs you at gunpoint and you call 911 and they say they're really busy and won't be there for 30 minutes... (happened to me a few years back)
My point??? I can see plenty of times the system has failed or people have died even when 911 service was available.
Registering address (Score:5, Insightful)
This address would be changable either by calling the VoIP provider or can be changed online. The customer would be responsible for keeping the address up to date if their location changes.
If they make a 911 call and the router isn't at the location they have listed and they don't tell the operator their real location otherwise, they would have no one to blame but themselves. Their VoIP provider isn't psycic as to where they are.
New Google Beta (Score:3, Funny)
More information about case (Score:3, Informative)
So, Vonage connected her to a non-emergency number that is not answered 24/7. Not a good idea. I know that in some cities (such as Denver, where I live), there is no emergency number that is widely published. I can't look one up; 911 is the only number the police provide.
Best take on this from Jeff Pulver... (Score:3, Interesting)
My final thought on today's events: Amidst all the emotionally heart-wrenching anecdotes about failed Vonage 911 calls, no one ever mentioned the failures of traditional carrier emergency response services. I'm forced to wonder what would have happened if the FCC had paraded the spouses and parents of those who died when 911 failed on traditional wireline and wireless networks? I guess that wouldn't be acceptable - that might scare consumers of traditional telecom services and antagonize the traditional communications power structure. Let's bully the new weak kids in town but not draw attention to current emergency response failures by those that are capable of fighting back.
Couldn't agree more. This order is just the stepping stone to full regulation of VOIP inlcuding lawful intercept (CALEA) in order to kill it on behalf of the BOCs.What if there's a power outage? (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that if there's a power cut, all the mains-powered phones stop working. However, dumb phones are powered from the phone line, and remain operative. (I once spent some time in a holiday house with no electricity at all, except for the telephone.)
You probably don't want to train people to rely on unreliable devices like computers for emergencies --- you want to train them than when they need to call emergency services, get a real phone.
Already solved, POTS line + $100 device (Score:3, Informative)
The device that I use is called a Sipura 3000 analog adapter. It allows my cordless phone system to plug into ethernet for VoIP. Another nice feature is that I can plug my POTS line in to it as well.
I have programmed the device to route 411 and 911 calls made from my cordless phones on to the POTS line instead of the VoIP line. That gives me full, reliable 911 service without having to inform my guests that some phones are for dialing, and other phones are for 911. Every phone can reach 911.
Another nice feature of this system is that it also routes all calls to the POTS line in the event of 1) VoIP service outage or 2) general power outage.
There are also programmable features for routing specific calls to specific gateways based on charateristics that you define. Gateway 0 is for POTS, gateways 1-3 (there are more than 2, can't remember the upper limit) are for VoIP services.
If your VoIP provider allows BYOD, it is definitally worth checking out.
btw: the TX case in this mess is interesting. I was in Houston on business when it happened. The customer in question was interviewed on the news. The customer claimed that he had no knowledge that Vonage did not handle 911. Seeing all the warnings that Vonage give you, it would actually take some effort to ignore the warnings. No sympathy.
Re:I really don't get the problem (Score:3, Informative)
You can't talk.
the 911 service works in such a way that just by dialing those 3 magic numbers the authorities get your location and will arrive shortly thereafter.
with your call center idea, you are dead and by the time someone finds you there are no leads...
with the 911 service at least some of the time the authorities can get there to save you.
Re:Vonage Terms of Service and 911 (Score:5, Insightful)
All in all, a good thing, however I *hope* that the order allows a customer to consciously make the choice to *not* have 911 service, if they know they will aboslutely not need it for some reason (either if they have a standard landline as well, or if they are shipping the VOIP box to a foreign country for a relative to use to call them free, etc)
The bit about requiring the VOIP companies to make sure their customers know the limitations of 911 - I'm honestly not sure how much clearer Vonage could be. (I have another Voip provider myself, that does not currently support 911 service, and I was fully aware of that and the consequences of it, before I ordered service from them)
That said, if lack of 911 is in any way hoding back adoption of Voip, then I applaud this, as it forces the telco's to allow the Voip's to connect to 911 properly, and will allow them to offer it, which could very well be the hinge point that allows a lot more people to dump their expen$ive pots lines and go with Voip. Maybe this will be the competition that finally drives the ilecs to lower the prices.