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135 comments

Problems with the Linux Version (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13692904)

Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.

Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".

Linux zealots are far too forgiving when judging the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and far too harsh when judging the difficulty of Windows configuration issues. Example comments:

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Linux?"
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! If you have Redhat, you have to download quake_3_rh_8_i686_010203_glibc.bin, then do chmod +x on the file. Then you have to su to root, make sure you type export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 but ONLY if you have that latest libc6 installed. If you don't, don't set that environment variable or the installer will dump core. Before you run the installer, make sure you have the GL drivers for X installed. Get them at [some obscure web address], chmod +x the binary, then run it, but make sure you have at least 10MB free in /tmp or the installer will dump core. After the installer is done, edit /etc/X11/XF86Config and add a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. Make sure you have the latest version of X and Linux kernel 2.6 or else X will segfault when you start. OK, run the Quake 3 installer and make sure you set the proper group and setuid permissions on quake3.bin. If you want sound, look here [link to another obscure web site], which is a short HOWTO on how to get sound in Quake 3. That's all there is to it!"

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy and natural. Hence, the preference towards Windows.

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (4, Funny)

GerritHoll (70088) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692933)

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

You forget the last part: and then all my other games stopped working, because it wrote DirectX version N over DirectX version (N+p) (p>0).

But what does this have to do with Thunderbird?

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (1)

shish (588640) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692939)

It's a copy & pasted troll that appears in pretty much every article; it's in this one twice already...

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693035)

I remember a time when trolls used to be a bit more funny...

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693173)

Back then, we used punchcards to write data on. Those were the days!

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (2, Insightful)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693141)

Your points have been disproven just about every time in every thread you've posted that copy-paste troll in. We need a new mod category, -1 Copy-Paste Troll.

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (2, Insightful)

cdn2k1 (908657) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693552)

I laugh every time I see this troll. Sadly though, this is the 10,000 foot view many have of the Linux and F/OSS community at large.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693605)

At least you admit that Linux will fall, just like Rome, under its own weight and mismangement.

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693662)

"""
Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".
"""

Windows
-- Task: install latest version of Firefox
-- Open browser.
-- Go to Mozilla.org.
-- Click download link.
-- Go through "where do you want to save this?" pop-up windows.
-- Close / minize browser.
-- Open Windows Explorer.
-- Remember where I saved the setup EXE.
-- Hmmm... It's not there. Maybe here.
-- OK, double-click setup.
-- Follow directions in pop-up windows.
-- Luckily, I don't have to reboot for this one.
-- Double-click icon on desktop.

Fedora Core 4 Linux
-- Task: install latest version of Firefox
-- Open terminal.
-- Type in "yum install firefox".
-- Type "y".
-- Double-click icon on desktop.

Maybe N.O.W. should have gotten Mattel to change the talking Barbie to say, "Installing software on Linux is hard!".

What's that? You want to install a program on FC4 that isn't in the default repository? You dumb bastard! Now you prob'ly have edit a text file to add a new repository to the list. Oh, the horrors!

Now, if you want to talk about easy, let's talk UPDATING.

Windows
-- Task: update OS and installed programs
-- Go to WindowsUpdate.com.
-- Reboot.
-- Repeat a couple times.
-- Go to the website of program A.
-- Look to see if there's a new version.
-- If there is, download it and install it, as above.
-- Repeat for EVERY program on the system.

Fedora Core 4 Linux
-- Task: update OS and installed programs
-- Open terminal.
-- Type in "yum update".
-- Click "y".

yum/apt/emerge works for TENS-OF-THOUSANDS of programs. Take your pick. WindowsUpdate.com (barely) works for the OS, and a couple of their buddies (But only for their drivers). WindowsUpdate.com doesn't even update MS Office... WTF!!!

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (2, Funny)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693745)

OfficeUpdate.Microsoft.Com updates Office, does it not?

Re:Problems with the Linux Version (1, Offtopic)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693846)

I think I have you all beaten. To get the latest Firefox version in Ubuntu: -- See little GUI pop-up saying "New updates available." This happens automatically. -- Click on "Show Updates" -- Type in user password. -- Hit "Accept." No CLI, no typing in commands. It doesn't get any easier than this and you can upgrade the WHOLE OS this way. Try doing that through Windows Update...

Here is some work for Firefox developers (-1, Flamebait)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692910)

They could make Firefox on Linux as beautiful as its windows counterparts. Let slashdotters look at font management on Linux. How about that? Is it too much to ask for?

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (0)

ZakuSage (874456) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693016)

I'd settle for Firefox being faster on Linux. On the same hardware, Firefox on a Windows 2000 install runs much, MUCH faster then it does on an Ubuntu Linux (or for that matter any Linux I've tried) install. What's all that about?

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (2, Interesting)

freezin fat guy (713417) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693073)

"On the same hardware, Firefox on a Windows 2000 install runs much, MUCH faster then it does on an Ubuntu Linux (or for that matter any Linux I've tried) install. What's all that about?"

GTK for one. I haven't looked through the source so I will let someone with actual knowlege handle the rest.

As for fonts, while most distros continue to struggle I notice that recent Redhat variants all have superior font support. In fact when I boot back into Windows one of the first things I notice is that their fonts look worse than Fedora. Every distro should make it a priority to support that quality.

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (2, Informative)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693276)

There's only 5 font types (Serif, Sans-serif, cursive, fantasy, monospace) for any browser, period. One could use locally installed fonts using CSS by using the font-family property but then you're calling on local fonts which aren't going to be 100% consistent. 80% consistent maybe but that's good enough for most people.

Fonts aren't cheap which is why Linux has an extremely limited library of them. Bitsream was kind enough to donate their Vera family to Linux and I am extremely grateful for that. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on fonts for the Mac in years past and type face authors are greedy like the RIAA when it comes to fonts.

Actually a default installation of a Fedora flavor looks as good as an out of the box Mac. If your work requires custom fonts, then Linux won't be good enough

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (1)

Epimethee (861504) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693537)

> I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on fonts for the Mac in years past and type face authors are greedy like the RIAA when it comes to fonts.

Considering that a very well designed professional font (a rare thing) might take one or two years to design, just for a single wight and width, I wouldn't call it greedy for these authors to get a meager percentage of the 50 to 200$ foundries charge. ;)

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693680)

'Scuse me, but if your work requires custom fonts - do what you'd have to do anyway on any OS and "install" them. That's about as easy as drag 'n drop on any desktop OS out there. Yes, also on linux - I did say desktop OS didn't I?

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (1)

VStrider (787148) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693379)

GTK for one. Firefox doesn't use GTK+ for its UI. If it would, it'd be much faster (compare for example the UI speed of epiphany to firefox). It uses XUL and CSS.

I love the speed of epiphany and its consistency and integration with the gnome desktop, but there are certain firefox features I can't do without, like adblock, smooth scrolling, the search box, and mouse gestures. I wish epiphany would implement these or firefox to start using gtk+ and the gnome libs, at least on the linux version.

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (1)

NoMercy (105420) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693038)

Don't know about you but my firefox looks better on linux than windows, decent GTK theme, good fonts installed with the font server configured etc.

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (2, Interesting)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693176)

Care to provide some instructions so this issue will finally go away?

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (3, Informative)

cduffy (652) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693063)

I'm going to hazard that what you're seeing is a problem with your distribution, not Firefox itself. Firefox on Linux is quite capable of being pretty.

Combine with Firefox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693064)

As much as I love Thunderbird, I would like to see it integrated with Firefox. I understand that both programs are small, however, when run at the same time they use an insane amount of memory that IE+Outlook Express doesn't. Plus, I would like to be notified of new emails in Firefox without having to open Thunderbird. How long before they merge the two?

Re:Combine with Firefox? (1)

mancontr (775899) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693100)

They were one before in Mozilla Suite, then they splitted in two apps...

Re:Combine with Firefox? (2, Informative)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693105)

Mozilla Suite [mozilla.org] . Enjoy.

Re:Combine with Firefox? (1, Informative)

Moderator (189749) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693201)

What you're looking for is SeaMonkey [mozilla.org] . Email + Web browser integrated with all the new features of Firefox and Thunderbird (including the 1.5 branches), and it only uses half the memory of the two. I've found it to load much faster than Firefox on my FreeBSD system, and it's more responsive.

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (4, Interesting)

amcdiarmid (856796) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693150)

Better yet, on Windows they could allow T-Bird/Seamonkey/Mozilla to import email and settings from something other than Outlook/Outlook Express/ Eudora.

Until the email client can import from other previous versions (Say Seamonkey can import Mozilla & Tbird, and T-bird can import from other versions of itself) by using a widget, not twenty manual steps, the email client is a big no-no.

I know that the import widget exists, because it was included in one of the Mozilla builds - a long time ago. Unfortionatly, there was a decision to remove the import from Mozilla function. A very stupid one.

Re:Here is some work for Firefox developers (1)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693227)

Why are you still complaining about fonts? This has been fixed many years ago.

Ask not for whom the tolls. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13692912)

Ask not for whom the tolls.

on related news: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13692913)

Mulberry is out of the game. Their company filed for Liquidation. You can still download their app, though. And they are even considdering to put Mulberry's source under the GPL!

Radnom thought that just popped in... (5, Interesting)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692914)

You know, I just realised something... For years I've been using various e-mail clients...initially mainly OE, than Thunderbird (with some other in between, for shiorter periods of time). However, my email usage skyrocketed (literally) in last year, since I've been using Gmail. Sudennly...using mails started to be a joy for communication, somehow :/ So...what did I miss while using clients? Or perhaps...what do they miss?

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1)

GerritHoll (70088) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692954)

Perhaps people don't understand how to configure their mailclient. SMTP server? POP3 server? What's that? It's much easier to go to a website, enter your username and ID and see your mail.

Or perhaps peop^H^H^H^Hconsumers just like the idea that a big, "don't be evil" Google company can scan their e-mail to create relevant ads, so that they know what to buy.

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692964)

No no, I wasn't wondering about general public - but rather about people like me, who can configure their clients. Or rather - me specifically, since I have no idea if there was some kind of exodus from mail clients to Gmail web interface, resulting also in huge (HUGE) increase in email communication...

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (2, Insightful)

NeoSkandranon (515696) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693030)

A clean interface.

Excellent spam filtering (Thunderbird, yours rocked, at least it used to, but it had its shortfalls.)

Enough storage to never have to delete email.

Or worry about backing them up.

Accessiblity (web interface.)

Those are the points that have me glued to gMail as opposed to thunderbird. Some things the mail client could improve on (spam filtering and interface) while some are inherent of a webmail system (remote backup, storage, etc)

Re:Random thought that just popped in... (1)

slide-rule (153968) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693092)

Is it just the 'google factor' at work for you? (Meaning either that Google did the job or that the interface is streamlined and snappy enough to make 'webmail' really work?) For me, I'm not sure. I've used various clients over the past decade+ myself. OE, Eudora, netscape communicator suite, outlook (work thing), evolution, kmail, other odd-balls, and lately g-mail. (Most anything except Mac system clients, really.) My own recollections are that, for me, OE on win probably worked overall the best, but considering the security record, I haven't touched it in many years. Otherwise, IMO, *all* client-side POP/IMAP clients tend to suck ass in some respect or another. (security, config'ability, encryption support, contact management/import/export, mail format import/export, calendar integration, other misc. bits). Also, being someone who jumps around various OS's, various computers (my own, plus relatives and in-laws), config'ing yet another mail client to get to my mail is a PITA. Let alone that I've never had a dialup ISP provide IMAP.

Now, along comes Google with their AJAX (whatever) web-based thing, and webmail is responsive enough to use withOUT full page-loads any time I click somewhere. I had been just S-POP'ing my gmail to a local client (and to a thumbdrive version of thunderbird), but lately I'm just logging in via the web server and dealing with it there. I will say that I have seen some odd quirks in g-mail's behavior (I reply'ed to a message and it filled out the wrong TO addy) and that there are a few things I'd like thought out differently (various operations and functions are accessed in slightly different ways), so I'm not fully sold there either.

< dear google >
If g-mail provided iCal service for people and then linked that over to the gmail accounts, then I'd be a fairly happy guy.
< /dear google >

Call me picky, I guess... it'd be fair enough. ;-)

Re:Random thought that just popped in... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693155)

Funny...we're thinking about the same thing: recently I've realised that adress http://calendar.google.com/ [google.com] (as opposed to http://boo.google.com/ [google.com] for example) is actually configured on their server and working, although right now it points only to their search site. Could they be preparing for something? :) I mean...why configure the adress at all? And half a year ago I mailed Google with proposition that they can perhaps do something like Hula http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html [jwz.org] (worth reading IMHO...) http://hula-project.org/ [hula-project.org] http://www.nat.org/2005/february/#15-February-2005 [nat.org] http://nat.org/2005/august/hula.html [nat.org] - how it looks now Hmmm...easy webcalendar, with parts made "public" so other people can see what you're planning partly, and integration with Gmail to announce something automatically to others/retrieve their calendars/etc. Another feature that isn't mentioned anywhere and would be great IMHO - some kind of collage of few webcalendars (of others) on one, yours, so you can adjust... I actually submitted this recently to /. but it got rejected...oh well, fvck this. But back on topic. I should say "ignore me", I remember suddenly that on my own computers I haven't had acces to the net through most of last year :P However...I DID noticed extremelly high, compared to previous times, email usage on my part...I guess thanks to something that Gmail done right and you probably mention. (BTW, too bad I never played with IMAP really...but I haven't stumbled upon any free provider that I know wouldn't suck and any client for that matter...but when you think about it, Gmail is conceptually very similar to IMAP...)

Re:Random thought that just popped in... (2, Informative)

CalcMan (179244) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693857)

FYI. the new free e-mail provided by.... AOL (boo). For aim accounts mail.aim.com gives you 2gigs of online space, and IMAP access. I'm not thrilled with their online interface, things like no serverside filtering, except for spam. But it is a nice free IMAP space to play with.

(Ignore the above) (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693171)

(I forgot, again, to check "use txt"...why isn't it default dammit...)

Funny...we're thinking about the same thing: recently I've realised that adress http://calendar.google.com/ [google.com] (as opposed to http://boo.google.com/ [google.com] for example) is actually configured on their server and working, although right now it points only to their search site. Could they be preparing for something? :) I mean...why configure the adress at all?
And half a year ago I mailed Google with proposition that they can perhaps do something like Hula
http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html [jwz.org] (worth reading IMHO...)
http://hula-project.org/ [hula-project.org]
http://www.nat.org/2005/february/#15-February-2005 [nat.org]
http://nat.org/2005/august/hula.html [nat.org] - how it looks now
Hmmm...easy webcalendar, with parts made "public" so other people can see what you're planning partly, and integration with Gmail to announce something automatically to others/retrieve their calendars/etc.
Another feature that isn't mentioned anywhere and would be great IMHO - some kind of collage of few webcalendars (of others) on one, yours, so you can adjust...
I actually submitted this recently to /. but it got rejected...oh well, fvck this.

But back on topic.
I should say "ignore me", I remember suddenly that on my own computers I haven't had acces to the net through most of last year :P
However...I DID noticed extremelly high, compared to previous times, email usage on my part...I guess thanks to something that Gmail done right and you probably mention.
(BTW, too bad I never played with IMAP really...but I haven't stumbled upon any free provider that I know wouldn't suck and any client for that matter...but when you think about it, Gmail is conceptually very similar to IMAP...)

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693191)

However, my email usage skyrocketed (literally) in last year, since I've been using Gmail.

There are (at least) two ways to interpret this information. One is that you enjoy emailing more, so you do it more, the other is that you send the same amount of email, it just takes you longer because you have to wade through a web interface instead of using a normal desktop application.

Did you actually count the number of sent items, or are you just guessing because you seem to spend more time emailing?

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693246)

I use it much, much more, definatelly (previously it was simply checking mail regularly and replying when I had to...the occasions that I initiated some convesation/topic were very rare - could be counted on fingers of one hand perhaps; and now...I make correspondence regularly)

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1)

DJCater (877532) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693420)

What about using GMail with Thunderbird? It's possible. Would that increase or decrease your mail usage?

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693437)

I really don't think the experiment on myslef is possible...too much placebo/bias. Only observation is somewhat viable...

Re:Radnom thought that just popped in... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693580)

skyrocketed (literally)

Literally? How? Did you strap your mails to a rocket or something?

Automatic Updates (4, Interesting)

HateBreeder (656491) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692920)

Will it ever work?

Re:Automatic Updates (1)

Bob54321 (911744) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692960)

What do you mean? I get mine on the second Tuesday of every month (except for this month where I didn't...)

Re:Automatic Updates (1)

moro_666 (414422) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692968)

well too bad this item got fixed, otherwise debian machines could just go and click on

mailto: updateh4x0r@`apt-get update`.hehe.`apt-get install mozilla-thunderbird`.com

and have the latest version that is in their package repository :D

have fun ...

Re:Automatic Updates (3, Funny)

Nuclear Elephant (700938) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692990)

Will it ever work?

They're emailing these out now just like Internet Explorer updates.

Re:Automatic Updates (1)

Val314 (219766) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693681)

The Auto Update works with fine with the current 1.5 Betas. (so it will be fixed with the next major release)

I'm having problems installing on Fedora (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13692924)

Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.

Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".

Linux zealots are far too forgiving when judging the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and far too harsh when judging the difficulty of Windows configuration issues. Example comments:

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Linux?"
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! If you have Redhat, you have to download quake_3_rh_8_i686_010203_glibc.bin, then do chmod +x on the file. Then you have to su to root, make sure you type export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 but ONLY if you have that latest libc6 installed. If you don't, don't set that environment variable or the installer will dump core. Before you run the installer, make sure you have the GL drivers for X installed. Get them at [some obscure web address], chmod +x the binary, then run it, but make sure you have at least 10MB free in /tmp or the installer will dump core. After the installer is done, edit /etc/X11/XF86Config and add a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. Make sure you have the latest version of X and Linux kernel 2.6 or else X will segfault when you start. OK, run the Quake 3 installer and make sure you set the proper group and setuid permissions on quake3.bin. If you want sound, look here [link to another obscure web site], which is a short HOWTO on how to get sound in Quake 3. That's all there is to it!"

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy and natural. Hence, the preference towards Windows.

1234

Re:I'm having problems installing on Fedora (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693083)

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

You forget the last part: and then all my other games stopped working, because it wrote DirectX version N over DirectX version (N+p) (p>0).

But what does this have to do with Thunderbird?

Last week (3, Insightful)

j3tt (859525) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692958)

1.0.7 has been out for a few days now. A little bit late?

Re:Last week (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693439)

According to the times on the Mozilla servers, Thunderbird got released late Thursday night. This post went up early Saturday morning. I'd say that's fairly good, and "a few days" is better than me not finding out until Thunderbird tells me there's a new release out (which would have been a few more days).

Now if only they could have added Atom 1.0 support to this release.

Re:Last week (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13694028)

I think you're thinking of FireFox 1.0.7...

Or you can use the 1.5 beta (5, Informative)

matt me (850665) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692986)

The 1.5 beta has inline spellchecking, some new RSS features and a nicer options UI.
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/releas es/1.5beta1.html [mozilla.org]

Re:Or you can use the 1.5 beta (4, Informative)

Bob54321 (911744) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693008)

I have been using the nightly versions of 1.5beta for the last week and haven't run into any problems. The incremental updates are working well, most days these are quite small, about 200KB, athough it was 6MB the other day (but I suppose you expect that with developmental versions)

Re:Or you can use the 1.5 beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693193)

The incremental updates are working well, most days these are quite small, about 200KB, athough it was 6MB the other day (but I suppose you expect that with developmental versions)

The 6MB one was probably a full download. If there's no incremental update available (possible if you do an update check while they're still uploading the new files) then it downloads a full version.

Or you can use SeaMonkey (0)

Moderator (189749) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693182)

Or you could use SeaMonkey [mozilla.org] . I mean, if you're going to be using Firefox + Thunderbird, you might as well download the suite, which uses less hard drive space and memory. The mail client has had inline spellchecking for a while, virtual folders, and warns you if it thinks a message is a scam. It's at least worth checking out.

Highfalutin' (2, Funny)

bubbaprog (783125) | more than 8 years ago | (#13692992)

Bagh. I still use Eudora Pro 3.0.5. What else could I possibly need from an email client?

Integration with Firefox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693111)

I'll bet your Eudora Pro 3.0.5 doesn't integrate well with Mozilla Firefox, does it? Can you use the same theme as Firefox to have a consistent looking environment? No. Can you EVEN theme Eudora Pro? No. Plus, Thunderbird and Firefox are both open source, so I'm free to hack it if I want. But I don't need to because the two are already perfect. Well I'd like to see the two integrated better, but that's just me. Plus it's free. You're Eudora Pro is being left behind the new wave of open source software. Join the Mozilla team today! http://www.mozilla.org/ [mozilla.org] and give Firefox and Thunderbird a spin. You won't be able to go back to IE and Eudora.

Re:Integration with Firefox? (1)

bubbaprog (783125) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693512)

I don't need to "Theme" my email client. I need it to retrieve and send mail. Also, WTF?

Re:Integration with Firefox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693647)

Thunderbird isn't integrated with FireFox anymore than Outlook Express is with Internet Explorer. I think you are confused with "Mozilla", the application.

Hacking your own apps is retarded anyway, chances are your change is going to be clobbered in the next revision. Open Source is only good as the development model, its really irrelvant directly to the end user.

Re:Highfalutin' (1)

jfengel (409917) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693474)

Hell, I'd still be using my copy of Eudora Lite if my mail provider hadn't switched to some authentication that Eudora didn't support.

Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (1)

lowbudget_sw (892484) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693033)

I like the Playboy Bunny Favicon... screencap [adelphia.net]

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (1)

CypherXero (798440) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693049)

No, you idiot, that's a local favicon on your system. Firefox is known to get Favicons mixed up. So, uh, looks like you've surfing for some pr0n recently, lol.

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (1)

lowbudget_sw (892484) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693090)

What/?!!, that couldn't possibly be from surfing porn, not on my machine!

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (5, Informative)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693116)

That's probably because Playboy is an official mirror of, among other things [playboy.com] , Mozilla Thunderbird [playboy.com] . Nifty, isn't it?

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (1)

CypherXero (798440) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693226)

Whoa, that's trippy. Playboy is a...mirror?

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (1)

Dr.Pepper42 (918840) | more than 8 years ago | (#13694183)

Whoa, that's trippy. Playboy is a...mirror?

Damn, I'm fiiine!

Re:Did I just notice the Favicon TBird uses? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693277)

I grovel at the intelligence and generosity of our pr0n overlords.

Lacking security (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693039)

It's just a pity that they(Moz) don't want people to know about the security issues. 1.0.7 is vulnurable to a DoS, as reported by Georgi, but where's the info on mozilla.org?

I'd love to use a secure browser.. I used to believe FF was "it", but now I'm searching for alternatives once again..

 

Re:Lacking security (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693151)

A client app is vulnurable to a Denial of Service attack?
Methinks you are trolling or are using an acronym you don't really understand.

Did I miss the boat? (1)

Monoman (8745) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693082)

Everytime I read about TB or some other mail client I wonder "who the heck is still doing POP3 email"?

Free web email(Gmail and Yahoo) works great for personal stuff. I think most ISPs these dies provide web mail interface but I NEVER like to use them because ISPs change.

I guess if you get volumes of email and need a features to manage it all then maybe.

So my question is who is using TB and the like and why?

Re:Did I miss the boat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693096)

I use it all the time to access my mailbox thru imaps. Works great. Your email is always where you want it.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (4, Interesting)

pete19 (874979) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693113)

I'm still using Thunderbird.

I have four different accounts (ISP, Gmail, general university and CS department email). It's much easier for me to set up POP3 access to each and check them all at the same time with one program.

All my mail is in the same place, and I can get at old email when I'm offline.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693124)

I use Thunderbird because it has the best IMAP support of any mainstream client. And I will never use Gmail until it can read my IMAP box.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (1)

theTerribleRobbo (661592) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693128)

a) My hosting service provides POP3 mailboxes, and I need to use day-to-day when responding to visitors, etc.

b) At work, where we have IMAP + POP3, but no web interface.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (1)

Limburgher (523006) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693222)

Not POP. IMAP. I use webmail on my home server when I'm on the road, and I use thunderbird when I'm home. Since both use IMAP, I get the same mailbox and folders either way.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (3, Insightful)

mspohr (589790) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693237)

If you're glued to a desk with broadband access, gMail is great. If you travel (especially internationally), you need an email client.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (2, Interesting)

dipo (224074) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693287)

Why?

Because @gmail.com ist not my only mail-account. There are tons of other accounts I use since my first steps with Internet since 1997. Meanwhile some have a horrible webmail-client, but POP3 ist still in use.
Otherwise with all Incoming-Mail on gmail, spam would float my 2,6GBs. Yes, I look at the spam, cause of false-positives.

My Thunderbird is a container for all other adresses - fast, searchable, reliable.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (1)

Mostly a lurker (634878) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693579)

I have not used POP3 in years, but an IMAP client has much to recommend it. I use Gmail for personal email, but for business mail I want both an offline copy and multiple personalities (neither conveniently available with a web based client).

Re:Did I miss the boat? (1)

springbox (853816) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693816)

I have 3 POP3 accounts and 2 IMAP accounts. Thunderbird keeps them all organized and in one place so I only have to check my mail once not 3 or 7 times. It also comes with a spam filter, which was useful when I actually got spam.

Re:Did I miss the boat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13694076)

Free web email(Gmail and Yahoo) works great for personal stuff. [...]

So my question is who is using TB and the like and why?


Um... for non-personal stuff? I'm using Thunderbird for mail at work.

At home I'm using Seamonkey because the import process into Thunderbird is a pain in the ass (complicated by the fact that I'm switching OS's), but more relevantly because I have more than one address (incl. my own domain) and want to check newsgroups. Going through a bunch of different web sites gets tedious, I'd much rather just say "get all new messages."

Re:Did I miss the boat? (3, Interesting)

Bambi Dee (611786) | more than 8 years ago | (#13694271)

I was using TB in part because it was trivial to set it up so it would use the same "physical" local folders on a FAT32 partition shared between Kubuntu and XP. Since I realised I was only using Windows for music apps and the occasional game anymore, I actually switched to Kontact - but the same principles apply, and I'd rather use TB, Eudora, OE, Sylpheed or what have you than webmail.

My two primary email accounts are free and ISP-independent, so that's not a problem. And both have web interfaces, so I can still check them when I'm wherever. Best of both worlds, et cetera.

At home, though, it's always POP3/SMTP. I prefer having offline access to my email. It's convenient, and I'm just not comfortable having all these lengthy private conversations lying around "outside".

And I like having email and usenet (and RSS feeds, should I ever adopt that habit) together. I only follow a couple groups, never downloaded any binaries either, and don't really need a dedicated newsreader.

I also find it much easier to manage email in a program actually built for that very purpose. The UI beats "even" Gmail. And why would I put a website between myself and my communication?

And I don't want ads anywhere near my email, much less inside them the way most webmailers seem to enforce it.

So personally I just don't see the advantage of using webmail. It's nice to have a web interface available in "times of need", but it's been an emergency solution (well, ever since I learned how to configure an email client anyway).

Re:Did I miss the boat? (1)

bheerssen (534014) | more than 8 years ago | (#13694336)

Some of us just like to have our own domains. Be a presence on the internet, that sort of thing. It also provides some measure of privacy in that nobody can access your mail system legally without your permission or a court order.

If you are running your own email server, then you'll need a client. TB is a good one.

Why use Thunderbird (-1, Flamebait)

caller9 (764851) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693139)

If you're already in Linux, shouldn't you be using Evolution? IMHO its way better.

Re:Why use Thunderbird (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693275)

If you're already in Linux, shouldn't you be using Evolution? IMHO its way better.

Most people on Slashdot don't need the organizer since they have to life to schedule things for. Might as well save the RAM.

Re:Why use Thunderbird (1)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693587)

Evolution is way better of a program to use in Linux *if you're using Gnome.* Under KDE, Evolution looks absolutely crappy. Thunderbird still looks okay, especially since it can be reskinned. When I used KDE, thunderbird + Kontact handled my PIM/E-mail as KMail bites. Now I use Gnome and have a much better time with Evolution. It is what MS Outlook should have been.

Questions... (2, Insightful)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693192)

Thunderbird has been a great proggy for my use, though one thing seems to bug me: just about every POP/IMAP client seems to support some form of external filtering in Linux, Thunderbird doesn't, what gives? If only I could run spamassassin and clamav...

I *could* go for fetchmail + local mta + procmail, but I'm so damn *lazy* and Thunderbird has a nice GUI...

Yes, but does it...? (2, Interesting)

JohnPerkins (243021) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693208)

Is there a way to combine multi-part messages in Thunderbird yet? (yes, insert porn joke here) That's the only reason I still run OE.

Export Function Needed (1)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693291)

As much as I would love to try out Thunderbird, there is one basic problem. Once I move all my existing OUtlook mail to it, I can't move BACK to outlook. Granted this is OUtlook's problem, but if Open Source projects would like more people to try it, they should add an "Export to YYY Format" as they have done for INPORT. How hard could it be? They already have it working in one direction, why not add to a second. Blah p.s. Yes, I know. Put my money where my mouth is, but I am not a programmer :)

Re:Export Function Needed (1)

bsytko (851179) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693467)

Not free, but Aid4Mail [aid4mail.com] does do this. So its not impossible.

Re:Export Function Needed (2, Informative)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693582)

I know it's not as useful as an outlook export function (microsoft probably has patents on their outlook mailstore format) but you can always use IMAP to migrate your email between the local storage of any mail clients you like.

Gmail doesn't allow IMAP yet (primary reason I don't use it much) but it looks like bgxmail [bgxmail.net] offers a free 1 GB mailbox you could use - just setup the IMAP server in both outlook and thunderbird, and copy the emails to IMAP, then into the local folders. Hell, you could just leave your archive email in the IMAP store, and use either program to access them.

Alternatively, you could setup a local IMAP server such as courier-imap or any of the many alternatives and migrate the email that way.

Re:Export Function Needed (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693766)

"Gmail doesn't allow IMAP yet (primary reason I don't use it much)"

Of course given the nature of a web email service, IMAP support isn't particularly compelling. You've already got access to the same set of "mailboxes" (labels) from anywhere via your browser. If you don't like using a web mail interface, well then why use Gmail in the first place? Use a more traditional ISP's mail instead (many of them support IMAP now).

POP3 support is nice for backup purposes, but I don't see why Google should spend much time implementing IMAP support.

Re:Export Function Needed (1)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693952)

Well, I don't expect IMAP from Gmail; it is a free service after all. It'd just be useful.

Thing is, I have multiple mail domains (work, home, and old account) which is useful to access from several places. My work accounts (several system accounts and my own) I can now access via IMAP, my personal email is currently stored locally at home. I use my gmail account to store useful personal files, emails and the like so I can access them from anywhere (only recently got external IMAP access running at work)

The pain is, I can manage my multiple IMAP accounts easily from one client - except gmail which I have to go into a browser and fire it up to check for new mail, retrieve docs etc. POP access is fine and dandy, but rather defeats the object of using gmail to store things for access on the move!

If gmail had IMAP, I'd probably move my archived personal stuff into it, and just direct my personal domains there (my domainhost only provides pop3, and those that provide IMAP in the UK don't offer large mailboxes, not cheaply anyway).

As it is, I'm going to setup my personal linux box at home to be an IMAP server, and route everything personal to that, especially as kmail can now apply folder filtering on IMAP boxes. With my work and personal email accessible from anywhere via IMAP, what need will I have for a gmail account that I'm not receiving much mail at, that I need to access separately from my other 6 mailboxes?

Gmail webaccess is fine if that's your only mail account. If you have multiple ones, you want to aggregate them in one client using IMAP, just like I use gaim or trillian to aggregate my multiple IM logins. If Gmail don't want to provide that, all power to them, but they'll be losing my eyeballs. No great loss for either of us, I suspect.

Ummm...Woah (1)

rm69990 (885744) | more than 8 years ago | (#13694039)

I just signed up for bgxmail, and this is a portion of my introductory email.

Please note that in order to keep this account, you must fill out the form located here (only do this if you live in the US - you should NOT do this if you do not live in the US): http://www.lynxtrack.com/afclick.php?o=445&b=g8cmt phz&p=3053&l=1 [lynxtrack.com]
-You need only to fill out the first page.

Use the following info:

Property Location: District of Columbia
Loan Type: Home Improvement
Property Value: 780,000-800,000
Mortgage Balance: 95,000-100,000
Rate your credit: excellent

If in the US: -If the form above is not filled out, this account will be deleted in 24 hours.
If not in the US: Your account will not be deleted regardless of filling out this form or not.

What the hell is this all about? I didn't click on the link of course, but what are they trying to do...scam me for money? This isn't the kind of thing hotmail, yahoo mail or gmail would send a customer. And it most certainly is not something an ISP would send to a customer. This came as part of the email introducing me to the service, and telling me how to set up my mail client. Should I even use this service???? I am having bad feelings about it.

Yum told me this before Slashdot (1)

moving_comfort (677548) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693436)

I just hope I never wake up and see : "Installing: Sentience ..." --- Installing: kernel i686 2.6.13-1.1526_FC4 updates-released 16 M kernel-devel i686 2.6.13-1.1526_FC4 updates-released 4.2 M Updating: gtk2 i386 2.6.10-2 updates-released 4.8 M gtk2-devel i386 2.6.10-2 updates-released 2.6 M thunderbird i386 1.0.7-1.1.fc4 updates-released 14 M unixODBC i386 2.2.11-3.FC4.1 updates-released 859 k util-linux i386 2.12p-9.12 updates-released 1.6 M vino i386 2.10.0-4.1 updates-released 288 k Transaction Summary Install 2 Package(s) Update 6 Package(s) Remove 0 Package(s) Total download size: 43 M Downloading Packages: Running Transaction Test Finished Transaction Test Transaction Test Succeeded Running Transaction Installed: kernel.i686 0:2.6.13-1.1526_FC4 kernel-devel.i686 0:2.6.13-1.1526_FC4 Updated: gtk2.i386 0:2.6.10-2 gtk2-devel.i386 0:2.6.10-2 thunderbird.i386 0:1.0.7-1.1.fc4 unixODBC.i386 0:2.2.11-3.FC4.1 util-linux.i386 0:2.12p-9.12 vino.i386 0:2.10.0-4.1 Complete! /usr/local/bin/yum.sh ended on Sat Oct 1 10:32:19 CDT 2005

Linux flaw confirmed as fixed by Secunia (1)

jjMick (911387) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693470)

It seems that Secunia advisory has new information now, late update from Friday says that Linux issue was fixed: http://secunia.com/advisories/16901/ [secunia.com]

slogan (1)

garat (899448) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693517)

Maybe it shouldn't be

Slashdot
"News for nerds. Stuff that matters"

but:

Slashdot
"Your friendly freshmeat mirror"

winky winky (0, Offtopic)

mookie da wookie (919403) | more than 8 years ago | (#13693915)

winky footface springy sandwich. Blocka blocka wocka wocka. Hooperfish melt horse wipe sniffer. Pffft!

Fix the run-mozilla.sh bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13693947)

When will they fix the run-mozilla.sh bug on Linux?
Am I the only one experiencing this bug?
It's the only thing that crashes my browser, as it seems.
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