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Microsoft IE 7 Goes (More) Beta

CmdrTaco posted more than 8 years ago | from the what-did-they-break-this-time dept.

Internet Explorer 292

Hans W. Smith writes "Microsoft has unveiled Internet Explorer 7, releasing the new "preview" version of its Web browser to the general public for testing. The latest version works only with Windows XP Service Pack 2 and includes many of the features Microsoft has been touting for months such as: privacy protection,tabbed browsing and a search box similar to Firefox. They tried to outdo Firefox tab browsing with a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window." Yup, you saw it yesterday. Posting before coffee never works.

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Slashdot Goes (More) DUPE (-1, Offtopic)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615030)

Story is a dupe...original story can be found here [slashdot.org] .

Re:Slashdot Goes (More) DUPE (-1, Offtopic)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615042)

Well, the story was so nice it just had to be said twice!

Re:Slashdot Goes (More) DUPE (-1, Redundant)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615052)

Hey, I thought it looked familiar ;-) Well it was 16 hours since the original was posted, so I WAS about time to remind everybody ;-)

OUTGOING (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615039)

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"Quick Tab" (5, Informative)

arcdx (302794) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615054)

They tried to outdo Firefox tab browsing with a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window.
This can be accomplished in Firefox by using the foXpose [mozilla.org] extension.

Re:"Quick Tab" (2, Interesting)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615153)

Or the Tab Sidebar [blueprintit.co.uk] one which has more or less the same goal, but loads the thumbnails in the sidebar instead of creating a new tab with the thumbnails (it's basically a tab bar with thumbnails)

Re:"Quick Tab" (2, Insightful)

virtualsid (250885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615213)

That's a cool feature - something that I've been using with Omniweb on the Mac for a few years now. Once browsers like Firefox have this functionality by default, I'll probably have little need for a commercial browser like Omniweb.

The drag and dropping of the tabs was a welcome addition to Firefox for me - it's still not as slick as Omniweb, but it's getting there.

Now they just need to implement 'Workspaces' from Omniweb into Firefox/Seamonkey in as simple a way as possible, and then I can say a sad farewell to it.

I know this post has no content about Internet Explorer in it :-)


Re:"Quick Tab" (2, Informative)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615236)

For the tab dragging&dropping, you may want to check the Super DragAndGo and TabMix Plus extensions (I don't even remember how tab dragging&dropping works in out-of-the-box Firefox though, I never use it without plugging a dozen extensions in)

Re:"Quick Tab" (1)

virtualsid (250885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615313)

I should probably add - I'm not an extensions person. I've found some to be buggy, and keeping multiple things upto date (even with auto updates) is a bit annoying...

I suppose it is good that the basic browser can be quite lightweight, but I don't want to have to pick and choose extensions either. That's too much like hard work for an end user. The (very slick) workspace and tab features in Omniweb 'just work'. Which I would hope is the goal of the Firefox browser to 'just work'.

Now that Internet Explorer will be getting this thumbnail tab feature (IMO in a not very slick way) maybe Firefox can follow suit, but preferably by taking a leaf out of Omniweb's book.


Re:"Quick Tab" (1)

DesireCampbell (923687) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615347)

Can we get a couple 'o screen shots from you of OmniWeb's "quick tab" and this workspaces thing? I'm quite interested.

Re:"Quick Tab" (2, Informative)

virtualsid (250885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615489)

I think it's more sensible for me to post the marketing blurb by the Omniweb guys themselves:

Omniweb Features [omnigroup.com]

I hope that gives a vague idea - but somethings like the Workspace feature are best to be seen in action:

Press F2, and you get your ebay workspace with it's own history and set of pages up
Press F3, and you get your online comics all loading up in their own tabs come up.
Press F1, and you get your news + slashdot workspace. etc. etc.

The thumbnail tab browsing can be turned to text/thumbnail depending on preference. I normally use text tabs, not thumbnail - I can fit more tabs in that way :-).

The best bit really is that if the browser does crash (and unfortunately, it does at times), when you restart you are pretty much exactly where you left it, including history, so you can use that back button. The only issue you will have is if the site you were browsing has sessions, then it won't necessarily 'just work' - you'll have to log in again.

I hope that helps a little.


Sorry foXpose, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615288)

but Microsoft already has a patent on this. Either put up your patent warchest for cross licensing or get out of town...

That's actually not the latest version (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615056)

This one [mozilla.com] has MUCH more features.


Re:That's actually not the latest version (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615165)

Many more features perhaps?

nice editors (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615057)

Clearly the slashdot editors have the memory of goldfish. This is happening very frequently of late. Slashdot is really going downhill. Is spell checking articles also too much to ask?


SP2? (-1, Redundant)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615058)

Run aaaawaaayyy!

Re:SP2? (1)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615088)

For what reason? I have installed SP2 on numerous XP machines with absolutely NO issues and it runs great.

Re:SP2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615196)

I've installed it once and the machine went much much slower. So why risk it again? You can't back it out!

Re:SP2? (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615303)

Like the above poster said, not being able to undo all the changes is a big red flag. I did try it out, but fighting with the firewall and other miscellaneous "enhancements" ended up being ridiculous, with not even a perceptible advantage to upgrading. I eventually moved all my data to one hard drive and formatted before throwing a nice, lean, torrented copy of regular xp onto it. On a positive note, the computer enema ended up improving performance across the board, for a mere day's work.

Re:SP2? (3, Interesting)

rwven (663186) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615379)

MS does seem to think the answer to any and all security problems is enabling that danged firewall. Since when will a firewall protect you from an E-Mail virus? (Not that viruses have anything "directly" to do with security all the time...) But the thing is, dealing with the windows firewall is a hassle. If I want a firewall, i'll get a router and use IT as a firewall. (which i have by the way). Hardware firewalls don't completely get in the way like software ones do.

Microsofts stance on security would be best placed in tha area of finding and plugging holes. Part of me wonders: Does MS have any team of people that look for security holes in windows? Or do they just wait until some 3rd party comes out with a release about a newly discovered hole and THEN decide to fix it.

This isn't intended to bash MS, because i use and pretty much depend on their products, but it is meant to maybe gander at their priorities. As a USER of their software I probably care about MS security a lot more than the people who DON'T use it and just bash it on here. :-D I do feel secure in using windows for the most part, but due to past hiccups it's just that nagging feeling... It's just an awfuly big target and THAT makes all the difference.

Re:SP2? (1)

fudg3tunn3l (883722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615094)

Sorry, I start running at the merest mention of Internet Exploder

IE7 is a dupe! (5, Informative)

Alphab.fr (897672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615069)

The "new" quicktab feature is nothing more than a copy of the Firefox Viewmatic Foxposé...
http://viamatic.com/index.php/firefox [viamatic.com]

And M$ says to dev, please install IE7 Beta and test your pages... except that if I do that, it kills IE6, and I can't check my pages as they'll be seen by 90% of visitors...

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615113)

. . .which in itself is still a copy of OmniWeb for Macintosh; which has had this feature for a while now. ;) (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/ [omnigroup.com] )

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (2, Interesting)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615193)

Not exactly, the copy of the omniweb feature would be Tab Sidebar [blueprintit.co.uk] (which is the exact duplicate of the Omniweb implementation)

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (2, Informative)

feste12 (265406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615255)

To Microsoft's credit, if you install the IE7 beta, there is a one-click uninstall which reverts you back to IE6 (without even restarting your machine). The web developers out there shouldn't worry about testing their sites. They can always switch back to IE6.

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (1)

Gnascher (645346) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615500)

Hmmm I didn't find the one-click uninstall option. I had to go through add/remove programs, show updates, uninstall IE7. It required a reboot on install and un-install. This is a pain in the ass for developers, even if the one-click uninstall feature really does work. I should be able to have IE6 AND IE7 on the same machine ... websites are going to have to support BOTH versions of this shoddy browser for a long time to come. Developers need to be able to have both browsers available for cross-browser testing. Really should be released with the OPTION of installing it as a stand-alone or as a replacement.

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615278)

And M$ says to dev, please install IE7 Beta and test your pages... except that if I do that, it kills IE6, and I can't check my pages as they'll be seen by 90% of visitors...

With Crossover Office running on Linux you can have as many different versions of IE as you want installed at the same time, although you cannot install IE 7 yet because of the 'Genuine Advantage' thing.

Re:IE7 is a dupe! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615443)

The "new" quicktab feature is nothing more than a copy of the Firefox Viewmatic Foxposé...

Which is basically a dupe of tab exposé [hmdt-web.net] from Shiira.

Thumbnail view (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615070)

I have a plugin in firefox that does thumbnails of all the tabs, it is called foXpose. So much for IE having features that FireFox does not.

Re:Thumbnail view (5, Insightful)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615130)

So much for IE having features that FireFox does not.

How many regular browser users ever change a setting for that browser? How many firefox users install extensions?

Microsoft realises the mose people use software out of the box, and never touch settings. They don't expect the mainstream of people wil tweak into oblivion and so they choose to make a browser which has everything as it should as default.

(This is about the same way opera does their browser. Did you ever check how many extensions there are for firefox? Are they all the same quality/stability? Do you check all those extensions once a month to see for any new ones?)

Look, I'm not trying to be a flamebait here, but simplicity is key for the most Microsoft software users. It's just that simple...

Re:Thumbnail view (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615418)

"they choose to make a browser which has everything as it should as default"

Two words. Bol ogna.

You must be off your rocker. As it should? ActiveX? They have "everything" by default? Like the old CSS1 standard? If you like m$ so be it but don't hide behind a cloak with this illogical crap about how they are doing things right in the browser market.

Re:Thumbnail view (1)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615477)

They put stuff as default to make it easy for everyone. Users, website creaters, people with bad intentions.

The first rule of Microsoft is: Let's make it as easy so blind monkeys can use it. All else comes as an afterthought.

Did I ever state Microsoft should be applauded? No! But they make a coherent package, with lots of default stuff (and crap). That's my whole point.

(I actually hate Microsoft for all the right reasons and type this sentence right now in opera on my Mandriva box. Don't think I'm a Microsoft fanboy...)

Re:Thumbnail view (1)

john83 (923470) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615426)

Firefox checks for updates to the extensions automatically. Which is not to say that you can't check for them manually. You're right though, most peons don't tweek anything, no matter how easy you make it. Didn't I read something about a distro of Firefox with a bunch of extensions pre-included?

Re:Thumbnail view (1)

astralbat (828541) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615472)

Firefox extensions are good for testing the waters and you can be sure that if it's worth the extra resources, there would be a strong argument to migrate good ones to the main code base.

Look at IE who haven't tried anything new for years and now they're playing catch up. In this way they'll always be behind the likes of Firefox which is community driven.

Re:Thumbnail view (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615486)

Not trying to be anti-microsoft, but as I see it, out-of-the-box, Opera is the best browser around. Firefox is powerful for its extensions and IE is trying to catch up.

Having IE7 play catch up isn't without good reason. Firefox strides in devilish speeds because of its open source nature. Opera has a company behind it making money solely on web browsing and doing a hell of a job also (although an OSS fan myself, Opera rocks...). IE on the other hand is making microsoft 0$ and costing them millions in term of security. If I where a microsoft developer, I wouldn't want to be on the IE team, struggling not to break crappy old implementations because it is MS' policy and having to double secure check my code for security because I'll probably be the one embarrased in time. So, IE7 is simple for more reasons than it being planned as I see it! ;)

Arn't they bored? (2, Insightful)

el_womble (779715) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615073)

Is it just me or does Micorosft appear bored by IE7. Its not like its a finished product, they're are tens of standards that they don't conform too, its leaky and yet they're taking years between major revisions.

I know in the 90s it looked like who ever won the browser wars would take over the world, but 10 years on that seems to be the business logic of the underpant gnomes. Why don't they just give up, and distribute Firefox, SeaMonkey or some Gecko based wonder, instead of IE?

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615167)

How can you criticise IE for being leaky when every /.er's favourite browser (Firefox) is extremely leaky. When I close tabs I don't seem to get all my memory back. With just five tabs open, it's currently using 245MB of memory.

Re:Arn't they bored? (3, Informative)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615203)

I'd suggest switching to Firefox 1.5, which does free the tab's memory (unless it's within the set cache size and stuff), and actually remembering to set the cache size.

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

thetejon (798945) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615457)

Actually, it doesn't free the tabs' memory in Windows 2000, which I'm forced to use at work. It doesn't even free the memory when you close Firefox 1.5 unless I kill the process.

I'm not saying anyone should use IE, and I still love Firefox, but it's not perfect.

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615227)

I'll agree with you on that - Firefox is really bad with memory management, especially on windows.

I really don't notice it though on my linux boxen...

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

el_womble (779715) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615274)

Perhaps I should have been more verbose. My issue with IE isn't so much its memory leakage as much as the security holes. My real point was, that IE is too important as a platform for MS to get bored with it. Web technology is moving at a faster pace than it would appear Microsft can keep up with, and yet their browswer is still #1. The only reason I'd suggest going with a OSS broswer is that it frees microsofts engineers to focus on something that the company as a whole is more interested in.

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615336)

Web technology is moving at a faster pace than it would appear Microsft can keep up with

I don't think that's the case. If Microsoft wanted Internet Explorer to keep up with the other browsers, it would have done. But both the Internet Explorer developer teams were disbanded and the developers either left Microsoft or worked on other things. That's not a case of the developers being unable to keep up, that's a case of management deliberately discontinuing development.

Can you really say that web technology is moving at a faster pace than Internet Explorer when most developers are limited to using whatever Internet Explorer can handle? Almost by definition, the pace at which web technology is moving is the same as the pace at which Internet Explorer is moving. That's why this first real update since 2001 is so important.

Re:Arn't they bored? (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615468)

Why don't they just give up, and distribute Firefox, SeaMonkey or some Gecko based wonder, instead of IE?

For one thing, it would break a ton of both MS and third party apps developed to make use of the IE renderer.

foXpose anyone? (1)

Sodki (621717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615080)

They tried to outdo Firefox tab browsing with a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window.
Yeah, but we already have foXpose [mozilla.org] for Mozilla Firefox. Kazehakase [sourceforge.jp] also has something similar. It's really nothing new.

ie7 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615083)

ie7...eleven...eleven...call pizza pizza, hey hey hey

late night

Microsoft should thank Firefox (2, Funny)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615089)

The new browser also includes tabbed browsing and a search box on a more streamlined toolbar, concepts that should be familiar to users of Firefox, a rival browser distributed by the Mozilla Foundation.

Maybe at their next huge product release, Microsoft could give some credit to Mozilla and Firefox for helping them make a better browser? Just a thought.

Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (1)

octaene (171858) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615174)

Now, you know that won't happen. That was a carefully written statement you quoted. What's left unsaid is that Firefox had all these features first. Again, Microsoft isn't going to admit that in any kind of written form.

As has been said several times in posts here, the really sad part is that a lot of people will adopt IE7 (mainly because Microsoft's EOL/EOS update cycle will force them to do so), never knowing about the alternatives.

Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (5, Informative)

CyricZ (887944) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615190)

I know you're joking, but keep in mind that many of the innovative developments which are credited to Firefox actually appeared first in other browsers, such as Opera, Konqueror, and Amaya. Tabs, ad blocking, mouse gestures, and so forth.

Re:Microsoft should thank Firefox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615293)

Did Firefox give credit to Opera?

Thumbnail tab views of tabs (1)

cocoamix (560647) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615090)

a feature call Quick tab which shows thumbnail view of all open tabs in a single window.

Sorry IE7. Omniweb beat you to that one. [omnigroup.com]

Is it open-source yet? (-1, Flamebait)

ylikone (589264) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615096)

No? Thanks, but I'll stick with Firefox.

Re:Are you openly-gay yet? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615154)

No? Thanks, but I'll stick it in your butt anyway.


css fixes? (2, Insightful)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615109)

Did they fix the 3 pixel shift bug?
Did they fix position:fixed?
Did they fix float messing up other blocks?

(I can't try it, as I use Windows 2000 Server.)

Re:css fixes? (1)

KJSwartz (254652) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615214)

I cant use IE7 either... I have a 400MHz Macintosh G4. Just dawdling until the new intel Macs come out and doing my part to avoid the speed bumps.

Re:css fixes? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615222)

You can "fool" it to run on other Microsoft Windows versions of the NT-family by:

1.) Unzipping/extracting the distro file's files to an IE7 folder

2.) Deleting the UPDATE subfolder that formed under it

3.) Deleting the shlwapi.dll in that IE7 folder you made & extracted the IE7 distro files to

4.) + lastly creating a BLANK FILE called IEXPLORE.exe.local with notepad.exe & putting it into the IE7 folder you made & extracted all the files from the Ie7 distro into.

* :)

(Fact is, in doing THAT above myself? Well, I am running/using it to post here in fact, right now, on Windows Server 2003 SP #1 fully hotfix patched as of this date).


P.S.=> It runs SLOW, but works so far (not much testing). I still like Opera 8.51 better because it is SO much faster (noticeably so)... apk

Re:css fixes? (1)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615263)

"The procedure entry point of _wtof could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll"

Re:css fixes? (4, Informative)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615250)

Yes, yes and yes [msdn.com] .

I appreciate that it's a genuine question, but a completely information-free comment should not be Score: 4, Insightful.

Re:css fixes? (0, Offtopic)

Junta (36770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615361)

An Insightful comment can contain no information. If it was scored informative, you have a valid beef.

Some of the most insightful statements in the world are simply important questions.

Now this comment, -1 Offtopic.

CSS Compat : ACID2 shot on IE7 on flickr ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615277)

No comment :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alaskana/93697347/ [flickr.com]

It is looking extremely bad, look like MS has done nothing !
Guys, you got no excuses, Dean Edwards has done lot of fix on his own with a bunch of JS scripts !!!
See http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ [edwards.name] So, why are you not able to do the same with tens of developpers on board and years in front of you ?

Plz mod this up, as IE7 is only a small upgrade and will not improve user experience (but tab browsing, RSS, XMLHttp scripting and a few cosmetics ....) this is a very limited improvement an should be called IE6.1 IMHO !!!

foXpose (0, Redundant)

buddha42 (539539) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615124)

There is a firefox extension that provides a similar feature to Quick Tabs called foXpose [mozilla.org]

Hmm, where have I seen this before? (-1, Redundant)

prisoner-of-enigma (535770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615125)

Oh, that's right, I've seen it here [slashdot.org] .

I can understand the occasional dupe, but this is silly. The "IE7 Goes Public" link is quite visible on the right side of the page in Yesterday's News. Further, this isn't exactly a minor story, which means somebody at /. should've remembered it.

Slow news day perhaps?

grow up (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615136)

Of course digg posts articles faster, but at least at slashdot, most of the users aren't fifteen year old kids with nothing better to do than post comments like "Mac is kOOL!"

About the article..as for me, I'm really looking forward to IE7. For all the great aspects of firefox, it still has many shortcoming, like being extremely slow and opening the occasional webpage incorrectly.
If IE7 can offer tab browsing and do a reasonable job, I might just switch back over. If it sucks, then I'll just stick with my current browser, Opera.

Re:grow up (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615346)

you spelled 'kewl' wrong lol ;o)

Ajax? (2, Insightful)

cablepokerface (718716) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615145)

From the FA: IE 7 also includes a number of new features for Web developers, including support for up-and-coming Web-programming technologies known collectively as AJAX. How would they go about supporting this? Would it have a javascript extension for it or something? Really the only thing a browser needs to do for ajax is support the xml http request object, which IE does since 5.0 (I believe). The rest is up to the server side code. or not?

Re:Ajax? (1)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615184)

XMLHttpRequest becomes a full-fledged independant object in IE7, which means that you won't have to instantiate an ActiveX object for MSIE (which was the only "modern" browser not presenting an XMLHttpRequest object), and that you, if we one day manage to end IE6, will be able to scrape the ActiveX code path.

Re:Ajax? (1)

cablepokerface (718716) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615326)

But how would that translate into practical use? Here (at my work) we use asp.net for server side coding. Using ajax ment nothing more then implementing an interface in the page (the ICallBackEventHandler), after which you wrote some code for the callback and some javascript to 'catch' the callback and set the innerHTML for some div.

Both FF and IE reacted the same to this, it all worked fine. I never had to do any difficult ActiveX instantiation or something. Am I misunderstanding you?

Re:Ajax? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615415)

The problem with the old IE way was not one for developers so much as for clueful users.
The only way to allow ajax functionality in IE 7 was to allow all activeX calls. One of the first things to be turned off (did it even come turned on after XPSP2?) was activeX object instantiation by browsers.
Now, because it's done by a different route, IE7 using folks can use use xmlhttprequests based pages to their full whilst also having activeX turned off in the browser (or at least in the internet zone).

Ready for prime time? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615150)

Apparently it passes the Acid2 Test [webstandards.org] .

It quick renders Digg.com [digg.com] (sometimes it takes ages on IE6), but I can barely click on the One Pixel Banner [onepixelbanner.com] .

MS flip flop (3, Insightful)

NoSuchGuy (308510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615156)

Didn't Microsoft tell me about 2 years ago that their customers don't want tabbed browsing?

In 5 years they tell everyone they invented tabbed browsing years befor Opera and Firefox...

Re:MS flip flop (1)

stunt_penguin (906223) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615409)

I'd scream at my computer (more) if I couldnt browse with tabs. I have my shift and tab keys worn down to shiny smoothness.

Its still not firefox (3, Insightful)

jmazzi (869663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615158)

They seem to be just copying firefox, but it's still gonna be lacking in two major areas. Extensions and Security, in my opinion, are what makes firefox stand out.

Re:Its still not firefox (1)

servo335 (853111) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615360)

Not exactly. They stole what made firefox and opera great and fubard it in to ie7. Brings back memories of windows 95

Say what you like about IE (5, Interesting)

ninja_assault_kitten (883141) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615170)

But if looking at the progress between Beta1 and Beta2 I'm thoroughly impressed. The UI concerns I had with Beta1 have all been addressed. I really like where they seem to be going.

So? (2, Insightful)

stlhawkeye (868951) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615182)

If it can't render basic shit like min-width and respect viewport positioning, I don't care. Are they CSS 1 compliant yet? As in... fully?

Wandering (3, Interesting)

Elixon (832904) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615188)

It looks like it takes ages to implement few useful features in IE. The same features that are many times already available for the same or competing browsers as third-party plugging or extension that are developed by one or very few geeks.

Is it that Microsoft is short of geeks? Is it so complex software that third-party developers are more effective and progressive then in-house developers?!

Anyway, why are the browsers evolving so slowly? Look where is the 3D gaming industry! Look what progress they did. And now look what progress we (browser vendors) did on the WWW! I don't think that there is less money on the web then in the gaming industry...

So why is it?
(Is the main reason the insufficient cooperation ? Don't they see that competition in this area instead of cooperation hurts everybody? Look where IE ended up with thier individual and aggresive stance.)

Re:Wandering (1)

Erik Hensema (12898) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615248)

MSIE is much more than just a browser. It's a basic component of the Windows OS. So, they have to be careful not to change the API. They also try to remain compatible with existing (broken!) sites.

Firefox is no component. It's just the browser. Compatibility is no issue. They also care less about 'correct' rendering of broken sites.

Hurts: WINDOWS -} IE -} WWW -} ME {=} WINDOWS -}ME (1)

Elixon (832904) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615353)

I know. But isn't now the proper time to do what Mozilla did? They split the Mozilla Suit into parts because the similar problem... I think that every Web developer is suffering from Windows this way (not only Win developers, but really EVERY deveoper!).

I don't really care if the IE is a component or not. I don't see any reason why should I break my web site compatibility with standards to be compatible with browser that tries to be compatible with Windows because it is A WIN COMPONENT.

As a web developer I know that IE is having difficulties to catch up on other browsers. It hurts me, it hurts you, it hurts everybody and at the end it hurts Microsoft as well.

I don't care about any Microsoft's internal reasons. I judge the final product. I know, it could be better. Microsoft can make it better BROWSER!

Re:Wandering (1)

Fearan (600696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615372)

Did you just say that you don't think there is less money than in the gaming industry? Maybe you should go talk to SOE or Blizzard. Or you know, any company involved in the industry that is now bigger than the movie industry. Although not all games are on the web, a big chunk of cash is now attributed to MMOs. If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize.

Re:Wandering (1)

norman619 (947520) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615465)

Ummm there sure is more money in the game industry than in web. The game industry pulls in more money than the film industry. MUCH more money. A good game will cost as much to make as your average film. I believe it's one of the biggest money making industries. Think about it. The web hasn't moved very much. I'm still waiting for true 3D capabilities on the web. :-)

Privacy from who? (1)

conan_the_trollarian (929617) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615205)

I love how they tout privacy but is it really? I mean, sure, it might be better for the average user for average things but what if big brother wants in to snoop around? I'll be they have their own port and backend to do whatever the hell they want to do... better privacy....pfff

I wouldn't touch it (1)

SenseOfHumor (903349) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615211)

It was a nightmare when I tried Beta 1. Things didn't work and I could not go back to the previous version. Microsoft Support tried to help(sent a link to google groups :-) but it only made things worse. I had the look and feel of IE7 and the version reported IE6. It was a total mess. A subsequent disk failure made me reinstall and rid IE7. My colleagues are now sending me all beta announcement links :-) I got this announcement 3 times in 5 minutes...

new screenshots here ! (3, Funny)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615212)

Page thumbnails (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615219)

The thumbnail of each page is something that AOL explorer does. It's kinda cool. Maybe someone will make a firefox extension that does the same thing.

Adblock (2, Interesting)

edmicman (830206) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615237)

Where's the adblock extension for IE? Thats a good chunk of the reason I use FF over IE, just so I can turn off all the crap that I can't in IE....I might be tempted to try out IE7 at work, though....heh, I feel "guilty" using FF for looking up things and whatnot :-P

meh (1)

ImTheDarkcyde (759406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615253)

I am not fond of its' interface at all, it tries to look 'sleek and future' but fails. I mean, for crying out loud I can't even find the file menu!

Anyone remember... (1)

rdavis542 (878124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615257)

...when Microsoft was innovative? I think the last time MS was pushing computing forward was the introduction of Windows 95 from 3.1, or when IE first came on the scene evolving from the dreadful Microsoft web browser, around version 4.0 if I remember. Maybe it is true that all the great engineers that were pushing home/office desktop computing have left due to the corporate environment that has taken over the mentality of the middle-managers that who's only concern is to help the stock price?

Needs "Genuine Advantage" validation (5, Informative)

james_bray (188143) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615345)

Just to save some people the bother of downloading....

Now, I am an Opera fan (4, Insightful)

beforewisdom (729725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615357)

As I was reading this article I kept thinking how MS copied these features that already existed in firefox and being annoyed how MS would get the glory for them all.

I realized at that point, I had become one of the many Opera fans who have made similar posts about firefox and how Opera had x,y, & z first.

Re:Now, I am an Opera fan (1)

16K Ram Pack (690082) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615423)

At least with FF, it was FOSS.

I can't see a single good reason for wanting to use IE7.

IE 7's Rendering Abilities seem worse (3, Informative)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615363)

Check out Slashdot itself. On Opera, Firefox, IE 5 and 6, it seems to render nicely. Check out Slashdot with IE7. A good chunk of the bottom overlaps all sorts of stuff. I can't read the last few lines of someone's reply if they're the last comment. Also, my website www.binaryidiot.com renders perfectly with IE 5, 6, Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konquerer. In IE7, it places the add that should be on the right, between the navigation and the content. There is a HUGE space there. For some reason I am also seeing a lot of horizontal scroll bars for many pages. Looks like I'm going to need to make even MORE server side code to make sure IE7 works correctly. This is very frustrating. I wish the rumour that Microsoft purchased Opera was real. At least then we'd have a decent browser to work with. Another thing bothering me about IE7 is all the inconsistancy. Some back and forth icons, as well as the Favorites Center icon all have jaggies on them (these are seem even more with theming off) yet the icons on the right of the address bar look flawless. Also, I'd say almost 100% of windows applications have a menu at the top. Does IE7? NO! You have the option for the class menu but then it places it between the address bar and the tabs. If you unlock the bars, you can't move it up or down. There is no setting to put it where it belongs and if you have theming on, it has some odd lines on it that don't do anything. I fear for the web

Re:IE 7's Rendering Abilities seem worse (0)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615377)

Okay, now sometimes when I look at Slashdot I see the overlapping at the bottom. Othertimes (this seems completely random), it's a HUGE amount of extra black space.

What the hell?

IE7 Still has incomplete PNG support (3, Interesting)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615405)

If you open up a QuickTab page, PNGs do not show themselves correctly.

To check, look at my site in QuickTabs (www.binaryidiot.com)

Microsoft manages to do the impossible (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615408)

Tabbing has been in competing browsers for ages. It has been a killer feature of these browsers; tabbing makes browsing a lot more tidy and convenient.

Yet Microsoft has managed to do the impossible; the screen real-estate reserved for the tabs is SO f**kin small, that anything more than a few tabs will already crowd the interface.

Anyway, what I want to know is; has Microsoft fixed the major bug with JavaScript closures causing memory leaks?

such innovation (0, Troll)

suezz (804747) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615412)

I have had these features with konqueror and firefox for the last two years.

such innovation

developers developers developers

I tried it ... some thoughts. (5, Informative)

Gnascher (645346) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615431)

1. They are requesting that developers install it and test thier sites and report back. However, it installes OVER IE6, so you can't have them both on the same machine. This is a major showstopper for a developer, since we NEED to have IE6 installed for current functionality and compatibility.

2. Fails the Acid2 test miserably

3. They've moved the Refresh button to the right of the address bar, while the Forward and Back buttons remain in the same position ... this is just dumb. All the navigation buttons should be grouped.

4. The "Stop Navigation" button has also been moved over to the right. They've also changed the look of the button to a red "X", so that it now looks like a "close something" button instead of a "stop this action" button.

5. They've "fixed" the functionality that allows you to utilize many CSS hacks to compensate for IE's rendering flaws, however they haven't fixed the underlying bugs that the "hacks" were intended to fix. As a result, a lot of sites I checked out that rendered just fine in all current browsers (including IE6) are now broken in IE7, because the "hacks" no longer work in IE7, but thier standards complience is still shoddy, and thier box-model still sucks.

6. The graphics for the tabs looks "clunky" as compared to other tabbed browsers.

7. They've hidden the main menu, so now you have to go through a few clicks to find the options that used to be only 1 or 2 clicks away.

Overall, I hope they don't think that this release is close to production readiness. They've changed a number of things just so that they look different, while in the process breaking a number of UI conventions that have long been established an work.

They've still got a lot of work to do in thier CSS support ... I don't understand why even some of the most basic CSS functionality is beyond thier ability to grasp. I can understand some of the more 'advanced' CSS features being a little tricky to interpret and implement, but basic positioning, sizing, padding and margin issues should be pretty easy to understand.

They claim to have fixed .PNG alpha channel transparency, and that's true ... to a point, but it doesn't work when the .png with transparency is used in a layer in some cases.

One thing I can applaud them on is that they've added the ability to use XMLHttpRequest without using thier proprietary ActiveX control, which will simplify those of us writing AJAX code into our web apps. They claim the old ActiveX method will still work for legacy support though.

So, that's my take. They've come a long way from IE6 ... but I beleive that they've got a long way to go in order to have a final release of IE7 that can truly compete against the other players in today's browser market.

Thank god (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615458)

Thank god that Slashdot is Microsoft's free news service. Where else can Microsoft-philes read about the new and cool software at Microsoft?

Not gonna try it (0, Troll)

TheDoctorWho (858166) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615463)

But I thought IE7 was just for Vista? Will the final release be for XP as well? Not really that interested anyway, oh well.

IE 7 and 6 live peacefully together? (1)

iamjoltman (883526) | more than 8 years ago | (#14615487)

Can anyone that's installed this tell me if IE7 will live with IE6 still on the machine? My main browser is Firefox, but I'm interested in trying this out. The only thing is, I hear that IE7 doesn't necesarily show IE6-based sites right, so I think I'll only try this if IE6 stays on my machine

but... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14615501)

does it run on windows?
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