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Windows Expert Jumps Ship

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the hello-apple dept.

Windows 939

An anonymous reader writes to let us know that Scott Finnie, Computerworld's Windows expert, has given the final verdict to Windows after 3 months of using a Mac. And the verdict is: "Sayonara." Finnie is known to readers here for his many reviews of Vista as it progressed to release. Quoting: "If you give the Mac three months, as I did, you won't go back either. The hardest part is paying for it — everything after that gets easier and easier. Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny."

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Lots of folks making the switch (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940854)

There are some issues certainly of migrating from one platform to any other platform, but it has been interesting to see a number of long time Windows users in hard core sciences with entrenched work flows that made them very dependent upon Windows to make the switch. When I joined the current group I was in, I essentially catalyzed a complete switch of our lab that is now percolating to many other labs in the group. These switchers have not and are not switching because I kept hitting them over the head with how great the platform is. Rather, they kept seeing the amazing presentations I gave with the help of apps like Keynote, or how easy it was to host a number of high traffic websites from a single OS X machine (including my blog [utah.edu] ), our lab site [utah.edu] , and Webvision [utah.edu] among a number of others. Or even how easy it was for me to replace an SGI, a Windows machine and a older Mac with a single incredibly powerful workstation running OS X. The new MacPros are one of the most amazingly powerful systems for the dollar that I've ever used making scientific calculations quick and easy.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (3, Insightful)

Pentavirate (867026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941014)

People have different preferences. That's what makes the free market work. Thank goodness we have choices!

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (5, Insightful)

Flavio (12072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941212)

People have different preferences. That's what makes the free market work.

Exactly, and this is why a lot less people should be using Windows. As long as Windows is shipped with computers and people have to pay the Microsoft tax, there isn't a free market to speak of.

Most Windows users didn't choose a Microsoft operating system, so their preferences weren't a factor.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (1, Interesting)

rwven (663186) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941376)

"Microsoft Tax?" What do you expect? In order to use OSX you have to own apple hardware. Parents buying computers for their kids for college/hs are going to care about one thing: Price.

You can pay $1300 for a mac...or you can spend $700 for a PC. Which do you THINK parents are going to buy? Parents aside, what do you think MOST people are going to go with.

Apples decision to limit their OS to their hardware is what is killing their adoption rate. If I could buy OSX for my PC...i probably would, just so I could have both. But I don't want to have to spend twice as much on my computer just to run an OS that TECHNICALLY doesn't do as much as Windows does...

Linux *generally* isn't as mature enough or well known enough to land on retail PCs either.

That leaves Windows. Apple has the solution but refuses to bend over and pick it up. Linux might have it someday, but right now most people lack the technical knowledge to use it...

It's apples own fault that more people don't pick it up. If Dell were able to sell a PC and offer the users the choice of OSX or Windows...I bet with Apple's marketing you'd get LOADS of people adopting it for the first time.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (5, Interesting)

Flavio (12072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941606)

"Microsoft Tax?" What do you expect?

I expect to go to any computer retailer and be able to buy a computer without Windows pre-installed. That's all I want -- I don't dispute anything you wrote.

It's apples own fault that more people don't pick it up. If Dell were able to sell a PC and offer the users the choice of OSX or Windows...I bet with Apple's marketing you'd get LOADS of people adopting it for the first time.

Yeah, but that's just the thing. Microsoft isn't pleased when vendors start selling machines without Windows (or worse, with Linux). Dell and IBM get away with this on a limited basis, but even then it's tricky.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (3, Insightful)

DWIM (547700) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941486)

As long as Windows is shipped with computers and people have to pay the Microsoft tax, there isn't a free market to speak of.


Are you implying that you can buy a Mac that is not bundled with an OS? Seriously, I don't know. Is that true?

Regardless, the parent topic demonstrates there is a free market. You can buy a personal computer w/o Windows on it. Mac owners do it all the time.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (3, Interesting)

hollywoodb (809541) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941066)

Many of the labs around my university's campus use Mac machines, but they're greatly outnumbered by cheap Dell and Gateway systems. Most of the Mac systems are older eMacs. I often see the PCs sitting there with a piece of paper taped to the screen with something along the lines of "Sorry, this computer is down for maintenance". I have yet to see that on a Mac system. When I asked why there are fewer Mac systems on campus I was told it is cheaper to replace the PCs when the upgrade cycle rolls around. I have no problem believing that, but I'm willing to bet that nobody is keeping track of downtime and man hours required to keep the PCs operational between upgrade cycles when they calculate the cost of their Mac vs their PC systems.

Personally, I'm a linux user across all my systems. I'm fully aware that most of my friends and family are not prepared to be running linux or *BSD as their main OS, but I did manage to convert one of my longtime Windows-using cousins to a MacBook. He's never been happier. Strangely neither he nor I have managed to convince anyone else in our circles to switch from Windows/PC. Hell, I can't even convince some people to try OpenOffice.org before they go drop a couple c-notes on the latest Microsoft Office.

Maybe I'm a crummy salesman, or perhaps my message would be taken with more interest if I had a black turtleneck and white earbuds. Either way I wish people would stop calling me because their crummy greeting card creation program quit printing a certain color, or their crummy spyware software won't remove a certain portion of spyware.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (2, Interesting)

TrancePhreak (576593) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941624)

My friend also works in a university in IT. They have mostly Windows machines and a small number of Macs. The Macs there require less maintenance because hardly anybody ever uses them.

Yay for annecdotal evidence.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (3, Insightful)

Simon Garlick (104721) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941124)

I, on the other hand, have no need for the sheer horsepower of a Mac Pro. So when I dumped my Windows machines a couple of months ago, I got Mac Mini for my desktop and a Macbook for my laptop. Couldn't be happier.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (2, Interesting)

pigeontheory (969456) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941136)

The reason for a switch should only be for the 'uses' of the platform. If you're comparing Mac vs. Vista when it comes to video editing, I'm sure Mac's arsenal of video editing software is much more usable than any Vista Video Software (God forbid a Vista Movie Maker). If gaming is your cup of tea, there's no reason to switch to a platform who's variety of games doesn't compare to a Windows machine. However, as for casual users (web browsing, document writing), I don't think there's a clear cut reason to switch. I think you'll find arguments on both sides of the fence.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941138)

The new MacPros are one of the most amazingly powerful systems for the dollar that I've ever used making scientific calculations quick and easy.

Yes, now that they run Intel chips. Or maybe you've just bought into the megahertz myth? Stop calling them 'MacPros' and correctly refer to them as 'Mactels,' please.

What can a Mac do that a Win/Linux machine cant? (-1, Flamebait)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941296)

Im asking seriously.

Someone tell me please?

And if there IS something, then tell me if/when upon learning this information, will it motivate me to go out and buy a hybric car, start wearing turtlenecks, and acting as if my shit doesnt stink just for knowing these facts.

I am at the point where the MACs would have to cut my food for me to make me switch, if only because the people using them act as if they come bundled with blowjobs in lue of software choices.

Can someone give me a legitimate reason to go Mac. I read every damn word of the article and dont think I learned anything new. I could buy a Mac tonight WITHOUT a payment plan, but I need more, dammit. I think for what MACs cost, I could get another sweet gaming machine under Windows, and just sip my latte with my pinky stuck out like the MAC fiends, couldnt I?

Enlighten me, bitches!

Re:What can a Mac do that a Win/Linux machine cant (0, Flamebait)

emor8t (1033068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941542)

What are these hybric cars you speak of? There isn't anything a Mac can do that a PC can't. I have crashed there OS several times, so it can't run stable. I can't remember the last time I had XP crash, although it does happen. I can recall sitting in class, closed the lid on my iBook, opened it up, BSOD (Black Screen of Death) Linux doesn't run nearly enough apps in native mode to make it a viable alternative. No Adobe Creative Suite, etc. Running servers it is awesome obvioulsy, and my first choice (Free+Stable=Can't be beat) I prefer XP for my creative work. My iBook is only used for mobile file access and web surfing. beyond that it's pretty well useless. Not powerful enough to run photoshop or many apps like the newer macs can (Its a g3 900mhz) and the screen is way too small. My PC i built however, has faster ram (800mhz, capable of 1000mhz), more mobo options, should be able to OC my e6400 faster than any Mac. I don't even know if you can OC an Intel based mac. I would assume so. Higher FSB, better graphics card, etc. All for about $1000 less than a Mac. There are very few legitimate reasons to own a Mac over a PC. If you can't secure a PC, Like shiny things, Can't build your own computer, have fleece, need to look cool... buy a mac. But if you actaully need to do something.. PC/Nux.

Re:What can a Mac do that a Win/Linux machine cant (1)

Angostura (703910) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941570)

OK, Well I'll tell you why I switched several years ago. These factors may be or may not map onto any of your requirements.

1. I wanted to tinker around with, and learn a Unix - but I also wanted to run MS Office
2. I was starting a family and new I would want to be creating some home movies and DVDs. I had a video camera with firewire- the iMovie/iDVD/iPhoto combo is SO cheap for what it gives you, that this was the main selling point.
3. I liked OS X - I found it elegant and thought it just 'did things right' not perfect, by any means, but overall a pleasure to use.
4. Decent security. Not perfect, not invulnerable but a good compromise between usability and security.
5. The hardware was cute (it was one of the new G4 angle poise iMacs which fitted nicely in a cramped room).

That was it. When I factored in support for Firewire and the iLife software costs, the price wasn't too far over a comparable PC and I knew it would work without too much dicking about.

Re:What can a Mac do that a Win/Linux machine cant (2, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941578)

It's how you use it son! LOL

Seriously though, it is in the implementation mostly and the ethos secondarily. These things are harder to quantify and you essentially just have to experience it first person rather than trying to academically pick apart the differences, because then you would simply be arguing about interface design, code design, and aesthetics. Basically, the OS simply does not get in your way to perform actions, like supporting USB drives or external peripherals. On OS X, they simply work and with Windows, it's always popping up messages saying "I see you are trying to add new hardware" or something like that. We've simply found that productivity is much higher with OS X than it is with Windows because of all the little stuff like this. The hardware itself is actually pretty good (windows generally runs faster on Mac hardware than it does commodity and the thought that goes into its design is stunning. I still think that the G4 case design is one of the best computer case designs in history, but the same holds true for the OS as well. It is good to see NeXTstep fully mature in OS X and I look forward to what productivity gains 10.5 is going to bring.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (-1, Offtopic)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941320)

To the little assholes that are attempting a DOS attack on my servers..... You are being monitored and given that these servers are also being used in and for federally funded work, you have attracted the attention of a number of people who are taking this pretty seriously.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (3, Insightful)

Nerftoe (74385) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941504)

Bryan,

Trying to help out here... Your server performance would be much better if:

1) ..you do not have 3 1/2 MB of images on the landing page of your blog
2) ..you do not host any mission critical website on the same server as site mentioned in point 1 above.
3) ..you do not post your mission critical websites on slashdot.

Hope this helps.. please be more careful in the future.

Amen brother (3, Insightful)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941534)

Long time user of PCs but there's no comparing the two. You get spoiled fast on a Mac. After reading a large number of reviews about Vista by pro Windows people ironically I'm afraid to buy a new machine. I hate XP because it's always harrassing me. Now I'm reading from people that didn't find XP a hassle that Vista is really bad about the constant prompting? Sorry but that's a massive productivity killer. Also most things don't have drivers yet. Yes I know they'll come out eventually but not overnight. Software was keeping me using Windows but I started researching Mac alternatives again. Final Cut Pro got me to buy a Mac. I think I can switch 90% of my operation to Mac and just keep one machine running Win 2000 for the softwares I can't live without. If most people tried the current Macs they'd switch. For a six year development cycle Vista is a joke. Apple is making more improvements in a single year and they get easier to use not more of a hassle.

Re:Lots of folks making the switch (1)

Buran (150348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941590)

I also work in a lab (and my boss is the one who got a Lombard Powerbook for me, and I haven't looked back since) and we're almost all Mac. There are a few exceptions (our ancient Bio-Rad confocal microscope, and an imaging system tied to an electron microscope, and one machine that runs MetaMorph) but we love our Macs. I plan to get an Intel Macbook Pro when the next revision comes out, now that Photoshop CS3 is out -- I'm sick of Photoshop throwing up a slow progress bar instead of just doing the free transform I asked for.

Our site [wustl.edu] (which I built in Dreamweaver with some hand-made tweaks) runs on a Mac Mini running Apache and CGI. (It's all there, but has to be enabled as Apple by default doesn't enable dynamic pages).

Our PI uses Keynote for his presentations, too.

Now if only our quote from JEOL for a new TEM didn't include a Windows machine... (and I highly doubt that they have any that run on the Mac platform instead ... sigh.) At least I hope I can avoid having to use the ugly Ulead PhotoImpact they include with the system, and install Photoshop instead.

What about those of us who switch the other way? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940870)

Ignored as always.

Re:What about those of us who switch the other way (1)

goto11 (116604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940934)

Knock yourselves out!

Re:What about those of us who switch the other way (1)

emor8t (1033068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941148)

You get marked as a troll. Because MS makes Apple Fanboi /.ers hurt cry. (Venture Bros refence, FTW)

Re:What about those of us who switch the other way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941472)

What about those of us who switch the other way

the same 5 people who purchased the Zune?

Re:What about those of us who switch the other way (1)

superangrybrit (600375) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941478)

You get the labeled troll for disrespectin' the Mac Overlord. Ever read the posts saying "We welcome our..."?

Old news (2, Interesting)

goto11 (116604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940872)

I switch Windows users on a daily basis to Macs... The next switch will be to Linux. Let's see how long it takes until Linuz is ready for Joe Average.

Re:Old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940988)

KDE is quickly eclipsing OS X in terms of usability and "must have" features.

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/01/19352 38 [linux.com]

Re:Old news (0, Troll)

Orthodork (975038) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941086)

Yeah, let's continue on with this sad fantasy that seems to pervade the Linux world.

Linux is ready now. (1, Informative)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941446)

Ubuntu is plug and play. Actually using it is easier than Windows. For some reason, on windows everything is about the applications, they get in the way, thrusting their way forward to try to be the center of attention and, in the process they make the system less usable. The documents have been relegated to files which have to be opened to use an application.

OSX and Ubuntu, the applications get out of the way, the key is the document, not the application. I don't want to use a word processor, I want to write a letter, it just so happens that I need a word processor to do it. So instead of clicking on the Office icon to start the word processor and then opening a file, I click on the document on my desktop and the relevant application (whatever it is) starts. If you look at a typical Windows desktop, there will be dozens of icons for starting applications and relatively few documents or files, it's completely backwards.

 

Another victim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940890)

of Steve Jobs' RDF.

MBP NOT WORTH EVERY PENNY (-1, Troll)

Biff98 (633281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940900)

I've had about 8 users get MBP's including myself. A list of problems we've had so far - Hinges suck, can't sit it on your lap if legs are any more than +/- 5 degrees, screen will flop around - We've had to have 2 screens replaced - We've had a number of cosmetic problems, light sensors breaking, power buttons sinking into the case, etc. - We've had at least 2 batteries bulge and become useless - We've had a hard drive go already - We've had a SuperDrive Combo-whatever DVD+-RW + CD/RW drive die BIG hardware problems with these damn things.

Re:MBP NOT WORTH EVERY PENNY (1)

Element43 (1001962) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940944)

I've had 0 issues with my macbook pro (intel core 2 duo) In fact I plan on buying a mac pro in the next 3 months and retiring my linux desktop to the closet as a home server.

Re:MBP NOT WORTH EVERY PENNY (0, Troll)

Biff98 (633281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941008)

Good rational, because you haven't had a problem with yours means there aren't any problems with any MBP's and I'm a liar. Great.

Reposted so you can read it. (-1, Troll)

Biff98 (633281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940958)

I've had about 8 users get MBP's including myself. A list of problems we've had so far:

- Hinges suck, can't sit it on your lap if legs are any more than +/- 5 degrees, screen will flop around - We've had to have 2 screens replaced
- We've had a number of cosmetic problems, light sensors breaking, power buttons sinking into the case, etc.
- We've had at least 2 batteries bulge and become useless - We've had a hard drive go already
- We've had a SuperDrive Combo-whatever DVD+-RW + CD/RW drive die

BIG hardware problems with these damn things.

Re:MBP NOT WORTH EVERY PENNY (1)

mhokie (988228) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941200)

This is merely a hardware issue in general. We could pick any model from any manufacturer and find people who had issues with their hardware.
Likewise, I know there are plenty of people who will swear by their Dell/HP/Gateway/Mac/PenguinPC. They'll tell stories of dropping it, spilling things on it and having it for 2 decades.
What it comes down to is the fact that all physical things wear down. It could happen in six year or six months. Isn't that what a warrenty is for.....?

Re:MBP NOT WORTH EVERY PENNY (0)

Biff98 (633281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941326)

Wow..... I feel differently.

I should also point out that I manage a fleet of over 60 laptops for field use. They happen to be IBMs and Dells. The IBMS we had actually had a pretty poor track record, but I'm happy to report our Dells have had a VERY low percentage of failures.

I know my sample of Mac's is fairly small at 8, but I submit to you that I've had a failure in my list on ever laptop that we own.

That's not a hardware issue in general, that's a freakin quality control nightmare.

P.S. Are you a Hokie, as in from Virginia Tech, as in one of the largest Apple clients in the world? As in you might be an Apple apologist? Hmmmm.... Could you comment on the failure rates of the desktops or XServe's used in the giant cluster there?

I still miss Windows (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940912)

I have had my Mac G5 for a year now. There are many things which still aren't quite "perfect" enough yet. I am waiting for OS X 10.5 (as I've never been around for a point release) to see if it is an upgrade.

For me I have one goal: Productivity. I'm am a network administrator for a enterprise company. I'm dripping in Windows but at home, I use a Mac. Why? Final Cut Pro and Aperture. That's it! I'm building my photography business and it's growing.

That said I still miss Windows for a few applications and MOSTLY for the keyboard commands (in the OS GUI). Window Key + R + cmd = CLI. On the Mac it's click or Apple + Space + Term + Click.

Lame.

I see Mac and Mac-like products taking over the home desktop. Not the OS but the "utility" aspect of it. iTV and the iPod are nice because they just sit there.

Microsoft can (and should) have the Enterprise desktops (for now).

Re:I still miss Windows (5, Informative)

Lightborn (7556) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940948)

That said I still miss Windows for a few applications and MOSTLY for the keyboard commands (in the OS GUI). Window Key + R + cmd = CLI. On the Mac it's click or Apple + Space + Term + Click.

Command (Apple) + Enter tells Spotlight to open the Top Hit.

Re:I still miss Windows (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941142)

Command (Apple) + Enter tells Spotlight to open the Top Hit.
That tip deserves a '+1 Informative'.... pity I just ran out of mod points.

Re:I still miss Windows (4, Informative)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941156)

Or he could create a shortcut in Universal Access. Or make a service with a shortcut. Or make a QS shortcut. Or geez, just put the terminal on his dock if it's such a hassle.

Re:I still miss Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941302)

What's a QS shortcut?

As for the dock, it's there, I just don't think I need to fondle the ferret testicle (mouse with fuzzy ball on top) to gain access to it.

Re:I still miss Windows (1)

wass (72082) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941388)

What's a QS shortcut?

That refers to Quicksilver [blacktree.com] , which in a nutshell, is a super efficient way to launch your applications, and also get at your files, music, oft-viewed webpages, etc.

Re:I still miss Windows (3, Informative)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941656)

Quicksilver, makes launching apps/finding information insanely great and is completely customizable -- much more powerful than the default Spotlight interface. You could easily make a Windows-R shortcut to launch terminal, or you can enter terminal commands directly in the QS interface. QS can even access my bash history and rerun command lines that I ran manually from terminal.app two days ago.

There's also an app that adds a small terminal to every window on the system (can't think of the name of it at the moment, pretty sure it's on sourceforge).

I do wish there was an easier way to universally access all menus on OSX from the keyboard, the way that Alt does on Windows (there is keyboard access, but it's nowhere near as straightforward), but beyond that I've found the Mac to be ridiculously powerful in terms of keyboard use, even before I found QS.

Re:I still miss Windows (4, Informative)

Fahrenheit 450 (765492) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941056)

Install Quicksilver [blacktree.com] . It' makes a world of difference -- soon you'll have a "Window Key + R"-esque experience for all of the apps on your machine.

Quicksilver! (1)

wass (72082) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941304)

I was just about to respond saying the same thing, but instead I'll provide some links. Quicksilver [blacktree.com] is gotten there, albeit a minimalist page that barely says anything useful. Dan Dickinson has a very good tutorial [vjarmy.com] , appropriately named "A Better OS X In Just 10 Minutes."

It's like all the power of the CLI with the visual interface of a GUI.

Keyboard commands (1)

Calibax (151875) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941248)

I find "Butler" to be very useful. It's a free application (although I donated) and you can set up many aspects of your Mac easily. And it's been around long enough to be well tested.

For me, a Terminal window is control + apple + t, safari is control + apple + s, the calculator is control + apple + c, my editor is control + apple + e. You get the idea. It shouldn't take an experienced user more than 10 minutes to install and configure simple keyboard shortcuts. More complex things might take a little longer, but it's not a biggie.

Seconded, quicksilver foo' (1)

TheCouchPotatoFamine (628797) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941556)

i say foo' cause i just don't see how anyone can live without it.. ....well after they're addicted to it anyway

Dell Laptop + Linux (1, Flamebait)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940920)

what's that you're sitting on? OH THE WADS OF MONEY YOU JUST SAVED!

Honestly, y0 h0 h0 and a bottle of rum, macs are good computers [I guess...] but dell + linux works just fine [I imagine acer+linux or hp+linux work fine too ... just have personal exp. with dell].

Tom

Re:Dell Laptop + Linux (4, Informative)

smash (1351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941116)

Whilst i'm a fan of free unix in general, and FreeBSD in particular (though I will use Linux on a desktop instead of FreeBSD if appropriate) - if you're buying a new PC and want proper support it's hard to go past apple at the moment. You don't have to resort to sorting out hardware compatibility issues yourself, you'll be able to run virtually any open-source software via the X11 compatibility and you get better commercial application support.

Is linux usable on the desktop? Certainly.

Can it hold a candle to OS/X in terms of polish and ease of use? Not yet. Is dell's hardware as aesthetically pleasing and stylish as Apple's? No way...

As a Windows/DOS user since the late 80s, and a Linux/BSD user since the mid 90s - my next computer is going to be a Mac.

I switched to MAC when I (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940922)

came out of the closet. Mac user groups are GREAT places to pick up men!

a payment plan??? (4, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940946)

Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro.

Jesus. Did he buy it from DeBeers, or something?

Re:a payment plan??? (4, Funny)

Heir Of The Mess (939658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941038)

>Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro.

Jesus. Did he buy it from DeBeers, or something?

Maybe the Mac he got came with a pound of coke and a lifetime porn subscription, which would explain why he had such a good time using it.

Re:a payment plan??? (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941058)

Saying that it's expensive to switch from Windows to a Mac running OS X is legitimate, because it means buying a whole new piece of hardware and usually a fair number of apps (since the developers usually won't let you just install the OS X version of apps for which you bought the Windows version and call it even). But if you're already planning to buy a whole new piece of hardware and upgrade a fair number of apps to run properly on Vista, the extra cost of switching to OS X instead isn't nearly as high.

Re:a payment plan??? (2, Insightful)

Crasty (1019258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941070)

I could buy it from Bob's trunk-porium and still not have it payed off in three months. Not everyone is rich, or willing to put their income directly to computer purchases.. Price is relative.

Re:a payment plan??? (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941426)

Not everyone is rich, or willing to put their income directly to computer purchases..

Yeah, or you can do what some people do, and put money away until you have enough to pay for the computer in cash. That way, if it's really something you want, you have more incentive to save for it (and you're not wasting money on cc interest).

Patience (1)

sudnshok (136477) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940956)

I use both Mac (at work) and PC (at home). I must say that I love my Mac and really can't stand using my PC. I've tried to convince friends to switch, but human nature is simply resistant to change. They have no interest taking time to learn a new OS/Platform even though in the long-run, it will provide a better experience for them. Hopefully, as Windows tries to emulate the great aspects of OS X, it will be less of a learning curve for Mac newbies.

I've also tried to convince friends about the advantage of using a Wacom tablet instead of a mouse. It really is a great interface, but takes a few weeks to get used to.

One day, I'm sure I'll convince at least 1 person to have enough patience to discover the benefits of Mac and a Wacom tablet. But, it has not happened yet.

Welcome to the light (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940966)

Windows is such shit. At my last job we had over 100 Windows XP machines. WE also had 3 full time admins who spent their days running around dealing with all the problems. A couple of months ago we replaced all those with Mac Mini. After a couple of weeks only 1 admin was needed to handle the Macs. The other 2 got reassigned.

Re:Welcome to the light (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941078)

We had a similar experience, but we replaced all of our workstations with rocks and promptly fired the admins.

hooray (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17940972)

Oh good, a Mac vs. Windows thread. There aren't enough of these on the fucking internet. Thanks Slashdot.

Re:hooray (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940994)

And you're adding your two-bits for what reason?

"Windows" versus "A Mac"? (5, Insightful)

Wilson_6500 (896824) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940980)

I'm confused by this. You can run Windows on a Mac with Bootcamp, right?

I suppose what he or the summary meant to say is "PC versus Mac" or, probably, "Windows versus MacOS on a Mac." It's really fallacious to compare an operating system to a computing architecture. You Linux users out there should be angry, since it tacitly implies that the only thing a PC ever runs is Windows.

Personally, I'm a computer gamer. Much of my computer time is spent gaming, with the rest being internet browsing and completion of homework/programming/etc. I use a PC because I want the level of control this architecture provides over my components. I use Windows because, well, for most games I pretty much have to.

(Yes, techincally "PC" means a lot of things. I use the term PC out of convenience, which is probably ironic of me to say given what half of my post is complaining about.)

Re:"Windows" versus "A Mac"? (1, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941036)

Or, ya know, you could use BOTH. Shocking.

Re:"Windows" versus "A Mac"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941250)

Maybe it's the Slashdot community, or just people in general, but what's the fucking deal with splitting hairs. I'm not new to Slashdot, but maybe not the vet as some others; but it still amazes me how many posts that are just ranting about semantics get modded up. Sure, this might have been misspelled, or that might have not been the perfect term to use, but it that all there is to discuses? Is Slashdot an editing room?



With this article in specific, there is very little talk about the topic of the post, and a bunch of bitching about minor semantics.



Yes, much like this post, but I am just following the crowd, after all.


Of course (4, Interesting)

adambha (1048538) | more than 7 years ago | (#17940992)

Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny.
Of course. Even Jim Allchin said, "I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft." [slashdot.org]

The market preference is shifting...

Re:Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941088)

Yeah for the technical minded. My ceo wanted a mac because it was the in thing in the ceo circle jerks they all have. 2 weeks later we bought him a pc because "It didn't work like my last machine" Your average home user will be much the same.

Re:Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941408)

Yeah for the technical minded. My ceo wanted a mac because it was the in thing in the ceo circle jerks they all have. 2 weeks later we bought him a pc because "It didn't work like my last machine" Your average home user will be much the same.
True enough, but I don't think Apple is out to get the 85-90% of average home desktop computer users, they'll be happy if they get the 10-15% that break the mold. Apple's OS.X will never compete with Microsoft's Windows for domination of the desktop computer OS market unless Steve Jobs decides to make some fundamental changes to Apple's business model which seems unlikely. Even if everything goes perfectly for Apple I'd be surprised to see the OS.X market share top 15% of the total OS installs.

W00t! (0, Flamebait)

Crasty (1019258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941002)

Sounds great! I'm going to go buy a mac right now! I can't wait to see how well my games run on it.

Are you playing any of these: (2, Informative)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941112)

http://www.gamedb.com/ssps/0/0/00009 [gamedb.com]

or how about World of Warcraft?

There are many games for the Mac.

Re:Are you playing any of these: (2, Informative)

Crasty (1019258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941242)

Battlefield 2, Tribes Vengeance, Day of Defeat: Source, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and soon to be released Supreme Commander...

Sorry, the mac is simply not a gamers platform. :(

They have some games, and some good ones at that, but if you like playing games, the mac is still a foolish choice.

Re:Are you playing any of these: (2, Interesting)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941314)

While I think "Foolish choice" is a bit strong, I would like mac but the gaming part keeps me back. If they made a decent headless mac that I could dual boot to play games (i.e with a decent graphics card that is user upgradeable). Yes, I know Imac, but i just don't like this form factor -- I want to be able to upgrade things as I want. Mac Pro is too expensive. If Mac made a mid-range headless computer, I would finally make the jump to mac I think..

Re:Are you playing any of these: (1)

no reason to be here (218628) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941538)

what about the MacMini? It's headless and much less expensive than the Mac Pro.

This is fantastic (-1, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941010)

I'm so tired of paying for Windows every 5 years, and running linux on cheap commodity hardware. I cant wait until we ditch this oppressive monopoly, and everybody pays 3 grand for a 750 dollar PC, and 150 bucks a year for a service pack to the OS.

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO PRO APPLE? ARE YOU THAT FUCKING STUPID? Pro-linux I get, it's all about philosophy, but pro-apple, pro-microsoft, pro-nintendo, pro-proctor-and-gamble, I don't get - unless you're an employee or stockholder.

Do you realize how much it would suck if Apple completely took over the desktop market? I love cheap commodity hardware. They would put an end to all of that. *shudder*. Sure you could run linux, but you still have to buy a 3000 mid-range PC and ditch the OS on it.

I won't buy a Mac, ever. Quit trying to sell me one. I have no problems using a PC, and would rather keep my cash. I have no problems if you like your Mac, but seriously, GET OVER IT. It's really not that amazing or impressive to me.

Re:This is fantastic (2, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941074)

"They would put an end to all of that"
No it wouldn't, Simple economies of scale will tell you that.

BTW, Apples are built to a higher specification then your 750 dollar bosx.

Comparing all the ing equal, then the price is about the same.

Another thing, time is money and not having to deal with the MS issues would more then pay for any difference.

Re:This is fantastic (3, Insightful)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941152)

A PC with linux can be built to far higher specification than a mac locked-in by proprietary Apple. It's crazy to think a USB cable is better if purchased from Apple because they charge you more. Let's not confuse hardware with software quality.

Re:This is fantastic (1)

gordgekko (574109) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941332)

BTW, Apples are built to a higher specification then your 750 dollar bosx.


The long and inglorious history of Apple hardware problems makes that statement nothing but sheer fanboyism. I'm not here to defend commodity hardware but if Apple's products are indeed "built to a higher specification" then the company ignores them an awful lot.

Re:This is fantastic (4, Insightful)

Sam Ritchie (842532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941194)

Pro-linux I get, it's all about philosophy, but pro-apple, pro-microsoft, pro-nintendo, pro-proctor-and-gamble, I don't get - unless you're an employee or stockholder.

I'd call myself pro-Apple - I've been a Mac owner since '92 (and a user prior to that), I like and enjoy their products, and I'm happy to give them my hard-earned in exchange for new kit. Similarly, I'm 'pro-Nikon' since picking up my Dad's Nikonos fifteen years ago; even to the extent I'm willing to pay more for one than a comparable Canon. Just because you don't 'get' it doesn't mean loyalty to a company is irrational or misplaced. It's kind of like having a favourite sports team - there doesn't have to be a philosophical reason behind it.

Regarding the Slashdot coverage, I don't think it's necessarily all pro-Apple as much as pro-not-Microsoft. One day we'll reach a point where OS choice in the average school/home/work environment is not predestined. IMO, that's a good outcome for everyone (except MS stockholders & employees).

Re:This is fantastic (1)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941270)

Why do all mac haters say it is $100/150 per year for service packs? Plesae, you are giving Windoze users a worse rap with this stupidity. I am a Windoze user, don't have a mac (though thinking more and more about it), yet even I know that each of these PAY releases are MAJOR NEW VERSIONS of the Mac OS and NOT SERVICE PACKS!

Stop spreading this fallacy and making Windoze users look stupid(er)

Re:This is fantastic (1)

skintigh2 (456496) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941312)

Agreed. I haven't used a Mac in a long time, but I know it must be nice to own a computer where everything works most of the time. They also come with some cool software that I may or may not use.

But then I look at the prices, and for $1500 I can get the same or less than what I would pay about $600 for with some Dell coupons.

I would love to be a convert, but I just haven't been convinced the 150% markup is worth it.

Use what you want ... (4, Insightful)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941016)

Change if you want, stay if you want. I work on a Mac at home, an MS-Windows based PC at work and Linux my website. I like my Mac, but in a properly managed environment Windows does a good job too. I don't like the "I'm better than you attitude" coming from either side, use what you like and recognise each has its issue - like a significant other, you need decide what attracts you and which issues you can live with.

If I had to choose a new computer tomorrow it would be a Mac, but that's my preference and my choice.

--
If you use the Mac, my choice of apps: Adium, Delicious Library, Disco, TextWrangler, Transmit, Darwin Ports, Handbrake

Re:Use what you want ... (5, Informative)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941206)

I agree. I've used all three for large periods, but my current computer is a Mac and when I replace it I intend to get another Mac. In general, I find it better than Windows. There are tons of little annoyances that I run into almost daily using my PC at work that I don't have when using my Mac. But I also like it for it's "best of both worlds" that it provides me. Commercial applications and an extremely polished UI in all places (where parts of Linux can get hairy, although it's gotten better), but the UNIX command line and GCC and all that for when I feel like fiddling low level/programming/etc. A real CLI that I can use (let's face it, the windows shell is ancient and pales compared to Bash. Maybe when Monad comes out).

These facts have provided me with great benefits besides my basic preference for the Mac. When I worked on my senior project (LAMP site) while my friends were testing on the test box the school was letting us use, I was able to run the whole thing on my laptop easily because all the components were already there and easily setup (where with Windows I would have had to download/install/configure each part). When I changed code I could test it instantly, no "copy to server, test, edit, copy" over the slow connection. I could work on it without an internet connection, or worrying about interfering with what my partners were working on (overwriting them).

The only "long-standing" problem I have with my Mac is the lack of big games, but I don't have a ton of time for them anymore anyway so my consoles work fine for that (although I miss a good game of CounterStrike, I'm on PPC so I can't run BootCamp).

Re:Use what you want ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941282)

Or you could be like me. I have a Mac & Win box at my desk. The Macintosh compiles the firmware, the Windows box does the windows software I have to develop and runs the hardware design tools. A FreeBSD box runs Subversion where all the work is stored and customers download updates from a co-located Linux server.

After Cygwin and FINK and friends the platforms all really some mostly interchangeable during basic use.. I guess I just don't see the huge religious differences here.

Took me three months... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941064)

It took me only three months to make the switch. The transition was smooth since I was using Thunderbird and Firefox (switched to Camino later), and got Parallels to run a virtual machine copy of Windows 2000 for my work applications when I work from home. Still got my PC to play video games and run that experimental operating system, Windows Vista.

If you listen very closely... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941068)

you can hear the sound of hundreds of chairs breaking in Redmond.

Re:If you listen very closely... (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941196)

...and a high-pitch rumbling in the background: "imgonnafuckingkillgoogleimgonnafuckingkillgooglei mgonnafuckingkillgoogle".

oh wait...

"imgonnafuckingkillappleimgonnafuckingkillappleimg onnafuckingkillapple"

There... :)

Made such a change a long, long time ago (3, Informative)

TWX (665546) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941076)

About ten years ago I switched from Windows to Linux. I was prompted to make this change by Microsoft's bundling IE 3.0 with Windows 95 OSR2.1 where it would start an installation of IE after the Windows installation concluded. It could be fairly easily cancelled by Ctrl-Alt-Del/End Task, but that one had to so was ridiculous.

Ditching Windows was a little hard as I used to play games, but I was reaching the point where gaming held little appeal for me anyway. Switching to a platform that ran for literally years on end without major crashes demonstrated the value of Linux, and obviously, the lack of worth to Windows.

Microsoft only holds its place because people are too timid to try something else. Apple's OS is slick. Linux has had windowmanagers that mimic the windows shell for many years. For people who don't play computer games it shouldn't be a big deal to switch.

Virtulization is the key to more switches (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941084)

There are only a handful of legacy apps keeping people tied to windows. This is why Microsoft are discriminating against competitio^w VMs in their vista licensing.

I'm sticking to Windows (1, Troll)

eebra82 (907996) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941092)

I understand that OSX is a solid alternative to Windows, but better stability and security is not going to make me switch. I want the same operating system my friends, parents and neighbours have. It may sound ignorant but it's not.

Although Macs are great (I've had a Macbook, btw), there are still too many issues that need to be solved first. For starters, I enjoy computer games every now and then. Also, despite the fact that Apple does great hardware, I'd like to see third party vendors create Mac hardware too. That's the great thing about PCs. There's endless stuff for and around your computer that is restricted to PC usage.

A BROKE Windows Expert? (2, Funny)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941110)

Forgive me for saying so, but how many people with Windows expertise and a software reviewing job to boot, who have trouble paying for a laptop? Budget concerns? Payment plans? I mean, WTF?

Any city, any country, an acknowledge 'expert' ought to be able to buy stuff without bitching.

Is he married?

Oh, wait.....

Jumped to eComStation and OpenOffice.org (-1, Troll)

user_ecs (878826) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941202)

For Christmas I bought a new computer preloaded with eComStation and OpneOffice.org. I have had too many problems with Dells and Gateways so I bought the system from CSS because I wanted good quality hardware (ie ECC memory, etc).

http://www.curtissystemssoftware.com/preloads.htm [curtissyst...ftware.com]

eComStation, much more stable and secure than windows yet much friendlier than Linux

Re:Jumped to eComStation and OpenOffice.org (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941366)

Can you, as the owner and manager of Curtis System Software, tell me more about the development tools available for eComStation? Is there a recent port of GCC that works well, for instance?

I recently switched (1)

GWBasic (900357) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941228)

I recently switched to a MacBook Pro. While the platform has its advantages, XCode is about ten years behind Microsoft Visual Studio.

Apple really needs a modern development enviornment; without one it will always be second-runner when it comes to variety of applications.

Re:I recently switched (3, Insightful)

wass (72082) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941522)

XCode is about ten years behind Microsoft Visual Studio. Apple really needs a modern development enviornment

Care to elaborate a bit more on that?

Re:I recently switched (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17941528)

I think Visual Studio sucks compared to Eclipse - it's so far behind with refactoring support and other stuff - that I can't imaging how bad XCode must be for you to say that.

Re:I recently switched (3, Informative)

filterban (916724) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941560)

Ten years behind is a bit much. Did you use Visual Studio in 1997? I specifically remember it destroying more than a few projects on me. XCode (and friggin CodeWarrior) trump older Visual Studios easily. Current releases of Visual Studio are great from what I've heard. But I am productive in XCode and I am also productive in Eclipse (when it doesn't crash!) Personally, I love XCode's UI. What's your beef with it?

And keep paying and paying (1)

Omeger (939765) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941240)

Because of how difficult it is to upgrade a Mac compared to a PC. That and so few native OS X games that don't run like crap. And terrible driver support for running Windows on a Mac. Yep, us gamers have known which platform to use for a LONG time now.

He's too kind to UAC... (5, Interesting)

argent (18001) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941384)

In the first article...

My assessment of UAC is that it's a good idea that is badly implemented, even after recent refinements. I think it will have the opposite of its intended effect on many Vista desktops, where it will deaden users to security risks by asking them too frequently whether they're sure an activity is something they really want to do or allow.


I disagree. It's a bad idea that's badly implemented... and it's not a new idea. Windows has been popping up "I'm about to do something that might be stupid, is that OK?" or "Which stupid mistake do you want me to make now?" dialogs for years now, and the biggest effect they have is to train people to automatically approve security dialogs. As a system administrator I had the same people come to me multiple times saying "Um, Peter, I just clicked 'open' on that popup again and I think I have a virus".

Here's a helpful suggestion for developers. Anytime you're thinking of popping up a dialog like that, ask yourself "how can I make it so the user can *always* cancel the operation", and if there's a way... do that instead. For example, instead of asking the user "Should I automatically open this file you just downloaded in NEW-APPLICATION", consider the possibilities of not automatically opening files at all... give the user a better tool for managing downloads instead.

Oh, and Mac users shouldn't feel smug about this one [scarydevil.org] .

Apple Please Port OSX to non Mac hardware.... (1)

Jeepnut24 (1010309) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941416)

That is what really holds me back from the switch. I like OSX, but don't like the locked nature of Mac hardware. Id easily switch over if I could make quick and easy upgrades to my PC hardware. The OS is nice, but the hardware holds it back for me. Oh and gaming is still an issue, but I could easily ignore that given the opportunity to run on the hardware that I choose.

Macs are not expensive (0, Flamebait)

nsayer (86181) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941424)

That old canard is getting very tired. When compared to equivalent hardware and bundles, Macs are very competitive.

What IS true is that the least expensive mac is more expensive than the least expensive PC. But, of course, the least expensive PC is invariably a cheap piece of crap one step up from a calculator.

Good luck Apple (1, Flamebait)

mark99 (459508) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941428)

Apple was always cooler and "better" than Windows, but Apple always found a way to screw it up. I think we would all like to see a world where MS didn't have such a ridiculouly large piece of the desktop, and Apple is still the best bet, but they have a very long way to go.

And most of the things that stopped Apple from suceeding are still true, i.e.
- they are still a lot more expensive (at least for a good laptop),
- The software choice on Windows is still infinitely better,
- The commodity hardware makers still aren't allowed to make platforms that host Apple's choices. (I think)
- Probably some other things that I have forgotten :)...

So I guess Apple won't make much progress (again). Even if they are better (again).

jumps ship? (0, Offtopic)

dlt074 (548126) | more than 7 years ago | (#17941530)

MAN OVERBOARD!
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