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Vista Named Year's Most Disappointing Product

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the foregone-conclusion dept.

Windows 842

Shadow7789 writes "No surprise here, but to complete its humiliation, PC World has declared that Windows Vista is the most disappointing product of 2007. Quoting: 'Five years in the making and this is the best Microsoft could do?... No wonder so many users are clinging to XP like shipwrecked sailors to a life raft, while others who made the upgrade are switching back. And when the fastest Vista notebook PC World has ever tested is an Apple MacBook Pro, there's something deeply wrong with the universe.'"

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I didn't find it disappointing (5, Funny)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734538)

But my expectations were 0 to begin with. Can't disappoint from there.

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734626)

Wow, Microsoft actually met someone's expectations!

Great job, guys!

Someone Forgot About Cairo (2, Informative)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734950)

M$ is losing it's temper with people laughing at Vista this way [slashdot.org] .

Re:Someone Forgot About Cairo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735024)

You bitch about criticism, then you make the journal entry "friends only", thus ensuring that your own critics can't respond.

Classless, thy name is Twitter. Or Erris. Take your pick.

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (5, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734628)

No wonder so many users are clinging to XP like shipwrecked sailors to a life raft
We look back at our complaints over XP and are forced to reflect on our simple naïveté.

Nihilism means nothing to the dancing peasants.

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (5, Funny)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734634)

I expected Vista to be the cause of countless stories on Slashdot. Apparently I'm in the wrong line of work, seeing as how I can see the future...

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734724)

Not only slashdot but the microsoft effect in general [myminicity.com]

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (2, Informative)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734768)

Parent is troll. Do not click link.

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734868)

How is it a troll exactly?

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734934)

I don't know but you can find the answers here [myminicity.com]

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735068)

He is not a troll. A full disclosure of the linked website is here. [myminicity.com] Its' a very good site and everybody should visit.

Re:I didn't find it disappointing (1)

ameyer17 (935373) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735044)

Actually, I'd say the grandparent poster is more "offtopic" or "spammer" than "troll". Still doesn't make it OK, in my mind.

disappointing, it is relative! (5, Interesting)

Fengpost (907072) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734656)

Sure it can, you score can go into the negative area since Vista is slower than XP. By my count, it is -5 because of the worse benchmark score and compatibility issues.

http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/20071128181/windows-xp-faster-than-vista.html [mobilecomputermag.co.uk]

Boo Vista, A common theme for 2007? (4, Informative)

Zymergy (803632) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734548)

This was under discussion (again) just the other day... http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/15/1944206 [slashdot.org]

Here is the full PC World Magazine's list http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,140583/printable.html# [pcworld.com]

*The 15 Biggest Tech Disappointments of 2007*
#1. No Wow, No How: Windows Vista
#2. What Is It Good For: The High-Def Format War
#3. The Anti-Social Network: Facebook Beacon
#4. In a Sorry State: Yahoo
#5. The Great, The Bad, The Ugly: Apple iPhone
#6. Un-Neutral: The Broadband Industry
#7. Cannot be Completed as Dialed: Voice Over IP
#8. Needs To Change Its Spots: Apple "Leopard" OS 10.5
#9. Sorry, We Already Gave: Office 2007
#10. Is Anyone Listening?: Wireless Carriers
#11. Singing an Old Familiar Zune: Microsoft Zune
#12. Just Another Oxymoron: Internet Security
#13. Web 2 Woe: Social Networks
#14. Screwed up to the Max: Municipal WiMax
#15. Box Unpopuli: Amazon Unbox

Re:Boo Vista, A common theme for 2007? (5, Insightful)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734844)

The instant pcworld bashes Vista it somehow gains credibility on slashdot I guess :)

Re:Boo Vista, A common theme for 2007? (5, Funny)

QuickFox (311231) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734900)

You must be new here. The instant anyone bashes Vista it gains credibility on slashdot.

Re:Boo Vista, A common theme for 2007? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734974)

"You must be new here. The instant anyone bashes Vista it gains credibility on slashdot."

Hey, /. is doing a public service here. I want -- need -- a daily dose of MS bashing. If I don't get it, I have withdraw symptoms.

It's called a consensus opinion. (4, Insightful)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735000)

Is there anyone outside of M$ that has said anything good about Vista? PCWorld said a few good things but their overall dissapointment carries weight because of their past enthusiasm. What this means is that Vista is so bad that anyone daring to defend it risks their credibility.

Re:It's called a consensus opinion. (5, Funny)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735082)

I like Vista.

this list stinks and I don't like it. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735018)

People sure do hate Vista.

I have never seen this before. Nope. Not ever.

Not when XP came out and everyone was all "I love my 2k and I will never upgrade ever. Fucking XP is rubbish. I will never ever ever use it ever."

Vista is not horrible. Is is great? Not really. But it works and it works pretty well. It is a bit overly secure (but that is because of install base that makes Microsoft OS worth attacking; Apple is expected to be targeted within the next 2 years due to increasing popularity) and overly prettified (but so is everything. I hate all the animations of OS X and now even Linux flavors--they add nothing; my attention span is not that short that I need my windows to be all fancy in minimizing and restoration.) But it works.

People be all acting like Vista is the worst thing ever. It is not. It is not even the worst thing released this year.

Office is 10x worse. The "ribbon" interface is horrible. It went from usable and known to clunky and confusing. I hate it. It would be a good package otherwise.

Re:Boo Vista, A common theme for 2007? (5, Insightful)

Rebelgecko (893016) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735090)

I agree with John Gruber [daringfireball.net] . If Apple has a few more "disappointments" like the iPhone next year, it will make its shareholders very, very, happy.

What about the iPhone? (4, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734554)

The pre-iphone hysteria was touting the iphone as being the device that would liberate US consumers from the shackles of the telcos.

And while it turned out to be a pretty cool product, it's got the same locked-to-a-cingle-provider, pay-twice-for-songs, proprietary, locked-down, no-3rd party apps attitude as other US cell phones

Vista wasn't the most dissapointing product - we already new how crap it was going to be. The iPhone was, because prior to release, it bought a ray of hope to US cell-phone consumers that was cruelly dashed.

(Yes, I know the iPhone is number 5 on the list, but it's there for the wrong reasons)

Re:What about the iPhone? (5, Insightful)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734600)

The pre-iphone hysteria was touting the iphone as being the device that would liberate US consumers from the shackles of the telcos


Show me a single claim from Apple that says that. Just one will do. Or are you talking about some know-nothing blogger trying to generate click-ads ? In any event, to make the claim, you have to cite your source, otherwise (given that this is slashdot, and you're a known anti-Apple troll) I call bullshit.

Simon

Re:What about the iPhone? (1, Flamebait)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734670)

Show me a single claim from Apple that says that

My post didn't imply that it was Apple claims. Nonetheless, hype & hysteria around a product prior to launch will create dissapoinment if that product doesn't live up to expectations.

As you're a known pro-apple troll, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for a source for your statement "you're a known anti-Apple troll".

Re:What about the iPhone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735072)

I have to concur with your parent, you are a known anti-apple troll.

This isn't to say you're wrong here or don't have points to make from time to time.

Re:What about the iPhone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734704)

You didn't site a single source for anything in this http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=388694&cid=21694860 [slashdot.org] post. Face it - you only get upset with people who post negatives about apple because you are trying to justify paying premium prices for normal quality hardware that runs an operating systems designed by people how can't get a simple move operation correct. Fact it apple is all sizzle and no steak. RDF POWERS ACTIVATE!

Re:What about the iPhone? (5, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734730)

Vista wasn't the most dissapointing product - we already new how crap it was going to be

I think since 2001 every major Apple or Linux annoucement was met by something along the lines of "Longhorn can already do that in a better way". I was hoping there would be something behind the hype and atleast one improvement over MS Server 2003 and a few more improvements over XP. People really do expect more than a hobby operating system now and a suprising number of people are already being hit by the rather stupid limit of around 3GB of memory in 32 bit Vista. They are upgrading to Vista in the first place to get suppport for new hardware to better run their software and in the same year as release there is a very narrow window between inadequate memory and the top limit with a very poor way of handling what is in resident memory unless it is a machine dedicated to a very small number off application. A kludge like superfetch actually makes sense when so little memory can be adressed and most of it would normally be filled after boot with a lot of applications that may not be used in that session.

Once there are more drivers the 64 bit Vista may be a good option but the 32 bit version is a step backwards for Microsoft in my opinion. My opinion is coloured by having to deal with Vista installed on hardware that is completely inadequate - laptops with slow drives, low memory and sharing memory with graphics hardware that is not capable of handling the effects that got turned on by whoever does the installs.

Re:What about the iPhone? (2, Interesting)

alshithead (981606) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734924)

"I was hoping there would be something behind the hype and atleast one improvement over MS Server 2003 and a few more improvements over XP."

I agree with you 100%. I have for the last ten years or so said that I have grudging respect for MS server OS's. Constant improvement is a good thing. With regard to desktop I had also seen consistent improvement and therefore have said that I have grudging respect there also. Here's where things fall apart. Win2000 desktop was pretty much rock solid on release. WinXP was released with no real driver support and was totally lacking as a new release. Then, after SP releases things got a whole lot better for XP. Okay, now we've got something we can deal with. Then they release Vista and make the same fucking mistakes they've made over and over again. Why should anyone have to upgrade to a new PC to run the new OS? Mac is backwards compatible for a couple of generations. Linux can run on antiquated hardware. Sure, MS fanboys will say "apples and oranges" but my point is that a new OS release should run on current hardware, moderately past hardware, and some short time of future hardware. What is improved if I have to get a new system to run a new OS? As another question, where is the big, obvious improvement? Eye candy doesn't cut it. Any piece of crap can look good but function like shit.

have you even tried 64 bit Vista? (1, Interesting)

Arathon (1002016) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735034)

I run 64 bit Vista every day on my main computer (not by choice, I assure you), and I've never run into a single 64 bit frustration. OK, so there was the one time I wanted to run a stupid program that the federal government wrote 15 years ago, but that's the government's fault, not Microsoft's. I mean, yeah, Vista sucks and all, but 64 bit Vista is actually substantially better than the 32 bit version, and if people like you would stop running it into the ground for supposed "incompatibility", maybe we could all finally leave 32 bit in the distant past, where it needs to be.

On the other hand, it KILLS me that Microsoft plans on releasing a 32 bit version of Windows 7. That absolutely, 100% blows my mind, and deserves every ounce of scorn that anyone can muster...

Re:What about the iPhone? (4, Interesting)

Osty (16825) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734792)

And while it turned out to be a pretty cool product, it's got the same locked-to-a-cingle-provider, pay-twice-for-songs, proprietary, locked-down, no-3rd party apps attitude as other US cell phones

Personally, I couldn't care less about being locked to a single provider, mostly because AT&T/Cingular is the best provider in my area and thus have no reason to switch (I was on Cingular for years before getting an iPhone). I assume by "pay-twice-for-songs" you're referring to ring tones, which couldn't be further from the truth. If you buy a song from iTunes, you can cut it up into ring tones as much as you like. More than that, you can "easily" make your own ring tones out of any audio you like without having to hack your phone at all:

  1. Use an audio editor like Audacity to pull a 30 second or less chunk of music from your audio file. Save this as an mp3
  2. Import the mp3 into iTunes
  3. Use iTunes to convert the mp3 to AAC
  4. Rename the new .m4a file to .m4r
  5. Re-import the .m4r file into iTunes and it will go into the Ringtones folder, which can then be synced to your iPhone
"Proprietary, locked-down, no-3rd party apps" is three ways of phrasing a single complaint, and that's changing early next year. In the meantime, you can write useful webapps or jailbreak your phone. While not ideal, Apple has committed to providing an SDK for third-party development, which is a change from their initial plans (from the start they always planned the iPhone to be locked down, rather than being a more open platform like Windows Mobile).

I'm far from an Apple fanboy, but I like my iPhone. I bought it knowing exactly what it was and was not. Then again, I also actually like Vista and don't feel that it's the biggest disappointment of 2007. From the list, I also like Office 2007 and my Zune, so perhaps I really don't have any credibility in this discussion :).

Re:What about the iPhone? (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734894)

Wow. How does it sound after all that?

Re:What about the iPhone? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735008)

Wow. How does it sound after all that?

There are two answers to that question. First, since there's only one required format conversion (ringtones have to be AAC, though if your source material starts as AAC like an iTMS purchase there's no conversion at all), you're not going to lose too much fidelity. Second, because the ringtone plays over the iPhone's single external speaker, whatever quality loss might happen from the conversion (for example, if you're cutting up a FLAC file to create a ringtone) will be dwarfed by the suck that is the external speaker. It's good from a speakerphone perspective, but horrible from a music perspective. That's all right, though, as you should use headphones if you actually want to listen to music.

Re:What about the iPhone? (3, Funny)

Torvaun (1040898) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735014)

Wow. How does it sound after all that?
SKSKRSKRSKRKSKRSKRSKRSKCH "Joe, what the hell did you put in the blender now?!"

Re:What about the iPhone? (1)

rampant mac (561036) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734896)

"The pre-iphone hysteria was touting the iphone as being the device that would liberate US consumers from the shackles of the telcos."

That's odd, since I remember them saying from a certain MacWorld conference that there would be exclusivity for a few years. I do remember "teh Steve" mentioning that one of the purposes of the iPhone was to make smartphones "smarter" and more available (less of a barrier of entry) for the masses.


"pay-twice-for-songs"

That last update to GarageBand should be quite a surprise then.

"Vista wasn't the most dissapointing product - we already new how crap it was going to be. The iPhone was, because prior to release, it bought a ray of hope to US cell-phone consumers that was cruelly dashed."

Vista was terrible because Microsoft promised the moon, and barely delivered. How long have they been touting WinFS? Since 1998 or so, maybe longer? Feature after feature was cut to make their deadline, and they wonder why people aren't storming down the gate to install it? Big surprise. Hell, I don't take anything Microsoft says for granted. Ever since Bill Gates had to add a chapter about the Internet (Internet? It'll never catch on!) to his book The Road Ahead [wikipedia.org] , I've been wary about what future technology Microsoft sees for us.

iPhone is #5 on the list (1)

I'm Don Giovanni (598558) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735064)

The full list is here:
http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,140583/printable.html [pcworld.com]

And both iPhone and Leopard are on the list (just for Apple fanboys that came here to gloat on Vista's #1 ranking :p).

The list is pretty weak, really. And strange too. Putting Office 2k7 on the list because it has a new interface? WTF?

News? (0, Redundant)

ZeroFactorial (1025676) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734566)

This is news? I thought everyone knew Vista is the biggest failure since the cheeseshake.
Yeah that's right - you haven't heard about it because it failed miserably.

Mmmm... Cherry Cheeseshake... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735038)

What are you talking about? Cherry Cheeseshakes [coldstonecreamery.com] are awesome.

Vista wasn't a disappointment (1, Redundant)

stox (131684) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734574)

It is the best thing that ever happened to Linux on the Desktop. Who needs friends, when you have enemies like this?

7 years ago this very night... (1)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734630)

Old Linux on the Desktop was as dead as a doornail.

god bless him, every distro

Re:7 years ago this very night... (2, Funny)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734648)

So what? It's the year of Linux on the Laptop!

Re:Vista wasn't a disappointment (1)

jt2377 (933506) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734664)

2007 is the year of Linux?

Not so great (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734578)

If Vista wasn't full of bugs it may have averted this catastrophe [myminicity.com]

never thought (2, Funny)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734612)

i'd ever see a new OS that would make people *want* to stick with XP.

Re:never thought (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734692)

Forewarned is forearmed.

Because Vista sucks, people will stick to XP,
with the backdoor updates.

XP is *NOT* to be trusted either.

If you have XP with SP2, watch out.

As a developer... (5, Insightful)

the_banjomatic (1061614) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734618)

It aways makes me feel kinda bad for the Microsoft developers that worked for years on Vista... Truth is, its not horrible, just lackluster. But it still has to burn a little to have the reason you came to work for the past 5 years be labeled "The Most Disappointing Product of the Year"

Re:As a developer... (4, Insightful)

mboverload (657893) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734732)

> It aways makes me feel kinda bad for the Microsoft developers that worked for years on Vista... Truth is, its not horrible, just lackluster. But it still has to burn a little to have the reason you came to work for the past 5 years be labeled "The Most Disappointing Product of the Year"

The first heartfelt comment I've seen for a long time on Slashdot.

Go forth, my brother, and touch more.

Re:As a developer... (2, Interesting)

willyhill (965620) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734804)

I'd probably feel fine about creating something that has so far captured ~10% [hitslink.com] of a billion-plus potential market.

The whole "Vista is a flop" is 1/4 disappointment about what it could have been (certainly valid) and 3/4ths plain old FUD and buku profitable ad impressions.

Re:As a developer... (2, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734878)

...of course you would. You're conveniently glossing over the fact that
Windows Whatever is loaded by default by PC system OEMs on just about
any new PC sold. With a deal like that, it's pretty uninteresting to
be on a mere 10% of "a billion-plus potential market".

      OEMs and consumers alike tend to jump on the "next big thing" that
comes out of Redmond. That's not the case this year (with Vista). It
can't even completely conquer the Dell crowd (like XP did before it).

Re:As a developer... (1)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734808)

Look at it this way the bar just got substantially lower for the next release. Instead of shooting for innovative they're just trying for "Doesn't suck". All they have to do is get rid of the worst parts and fix the CPU sucking features to have successful release. I think by this point they have a good idea what people dislike about it so it should be a simple matter to fix the primary issues. Just dump the Vista name like ME and in aother year release a next generation. Since there are some structural problems I don't think a service pack will cut it. Better to get shed of the Vista stigma.

Slashdot admins, most disappointing spellers (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734882)

Disappointing, not dissapointing you dipshit admins.

Re:As a developer... (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735078)

I suspect they knew well in advance of the rest of the world.

The real disappointment would be to start out those five years with all kinds of plans for the cool stuff you were going to put in the next version and see it all cancelled.

Glass half full (4, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734620)

The chant at Microsoft, "We're number one, we're number one!"

Re:Glass half full (1)

Gregb05 (754217) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734700)

They're also #9 and #11.

dx 10 on xp (1)

fearanddread (836731) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734624)

I have this hope that people will keep not buying vista and eventually MS will be forced to add directx 10 to xp. I know...keep dreaming.

In other news... (0, Offtopic)

Vorknkx (929512) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734636)

The sky is still blue.

How Jar Jar would put it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734642)

Dissa Vista ista dissappointing...

Deeply wrong with the universe? (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734644)

I'd say something's finally *right* with the universe, if people are starting to realize that MS is a crap peddler.

Macbook Pro (5, Insightful)

SquallStrife (669316) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734676)

"...and when the fastest Vista notebook PC World has ever tested is an Apple MacBook Pro, there's something deeply wrong with the universe." Why does that have anything to do with Vista? Isn't that just an indication that Apple make great computers?

Re:Macbook Pro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734794)

Couldn't agaree more. Vista's problems are due to the MS monopoly. They bought up way to many threatening competitors and they should be de-throned. I have always said for a long time that Bill Gates is one of the world's most dangereus people ever. Wait until his digi stuff kills your freedoms. And, yes, Apple makes a superior product all around and I don't own one, yet.

Re:Macbook Pro (0)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735060)

It's surprising because generally people would assume that desktops are faster than laptops.

Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink' (5, Interesting)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734680)

Probably going to get modded "-1 Troll" for this, but having seen and used the product, I don't think Vista is all that bad. Granted, I still wouldn't want to try and run it on a system that only meets the "minimum specifications",... but seriously, who's going to recommend such a system anyway? True, the extra "confirmations" are a bit of a pain, but they're really not THAT bad. I honestly can't say I've seen a Windows Vista system crash any more or less than a Windows XP system (or a Mac, for that matter). Compared to Linux, on the other hand, well,... there's still no comparison,... ;-)

As for all the extra "eye candy" ... yeah, it's probably a little over the top. But on that same coin, Linux and MacOS have been getting their fair share of extra processor-eating-eye-candy, too, so what's the big deal here?

Still, if you have Windows XP, there's still no reason to rush out and replace it with Vista (just not worth the hassle, really). But if you're buying a new PC, I wouldn't freak out if it has Vista,...

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (5, Insightful)

teh moges (875080) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734766)

The big deal with Vista, yes it's not that bad, but even in its best possible light, its a minor improvement on XP. In its worst light, it is actually worse then the product that was released before it.

Put simply, it is not worth the cost of upgrading for all of the new features.

I have found a great use for it though. I have officially taken the stance that I will "never buy Vista" and will also "not support Vista", which frees me from the usual role of having to do tech support for anyone that knows I am in IT. I will happily support a Linux distro and most XP problems have solutions on the net by now, so my "personal favours" workload has reduced dramatically.

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (1)

mboverload (657893) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734802)

The reason I don't like Vista (even though I choose to run it):

The Start Menu.

The instant search feature is great. Having to SCROLL THROUGH MY PROGRAMS is not. Plus, there's no way to go back to XP-style Start Menu. It's Windows NT or nothing.
http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slowstartmenukb9.png [imageshack.us]

Even worse: I run a Core2 Duo overclocked to 3.4GHz and 2 gigs of PC6400 RAM. The start menu program folders take a bit to open. How the hell do you make opening a start menu folder SLOWER on a FASTER machine?

(If any of this is incorrect or someone has any tips they are welcome!)

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (2, Insightful)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734856)

If you don't like the newer Start Menu, why not just switch back to Classic View?

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734952)

Because he doesn't like Classic. He likes the XP-style start menu, not 2K.

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (1)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734998)

Because that sucks too.
Vista's Start Menu problems are that it's half significant improvement, and half abomination.

If they'd just drop the scrolling menus and go back to popup for All Programs, it'd be fine.
Scrolling menus are one of the worst UI ideas ever. I've never seen an instance in which scrolling menus have been a good idea.

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (5, Informative)

QuasiEvil (74356) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734968)

If your comment was about XP and not Vista, I might agree. I'm a very happy XP user. However, last weekend I bought a new laptop when my old one crapped out. Obviously it had Vista, so I tried to use it for a couple of days. Between the fact it was abysmally slow, consumed a gig of memory just sitting there, kept asking me if I wanted to do things (yes, I know about limited user privileges, but this is Windows, for god's sake, where everything needs administrator), and I couldn't find a damn thing, well... the best compliment I could give it was that it was pretty. Add to that the fact I don't even get a damned OS install disk anymore, and I was significantly less than thrilled about its long term sustainability.

So, I decided to downgrade (upgrade?) back to XP. HP's own website basically said "DON'T DO IT, MAN, IT'LL NEVER WORK" and provided exactly no XP drivers, only Vista. Yeah, like I'm going to believe that. So I did, and after nearly ten hours of collecting drivers from other sources (occasionally having to change vendor IDs and the like to get them to load), I had it running perfectly.

The thing that bugs me most is that HP has the drivers - the hardware in this new box isn't anything all that revolutionary, or different from what was found in their old XP offerings. There's no reason they couldn't have put up the necessary XP drivers - most of them I got from HP's site, just under other models. The only possible explanation is that MS is sitting in the background, threatening to flog them mightily if they dared not do everything possible to push this steaming pile known as Vista upon us.

Oh, and yes, it dual-boots into Ubuntu 7.10 just fine.

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735020)

Granted, I still wouldn't want to try and run it on a system that only meets the "minimum specifications",... but seriously, who's going to recommend such a system anyway?

Anyone who is not out of touch with the needs of today's home users. WinXP and Linux work fine on such systems, and are pretty fast. Home users don't have a need for 1 GB of RAM and a 2 Ghz CPU. Never mind dual-core, quad-core, etc.

As for all the extra "eye candy" ... yeah, it's probably a little over the top. But on that same coin, Linux and MacOS have been getting their fair share of extra processor-eating-eye-candy, too, so what's the big deal here?

They do it while eating up much less.

Re:Going somewhat against the slashdot 'groupthink (2, Interesting)

WallyDrinkBeer (1136165) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735026)

The crazy thing is, microsoft spent an incredible amount of money and time on Vista. Then before release cut a lot of the features that were in Longhorn.

I'm also very cynical about their multi versioning ultimate, basic etc. They're just trying to segment the market to maximize revenue, it's software - it isn't costing them anymore to produce ultimate than basic.

Extra DRM restrictions on HD content etc just makes me want to puke.

I just expected more. Vista and Bill Gates can go to hell.

Vista = Genius Security Move (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734698)

You know how Microsoft changed all their development practices with security dead in their sights? Well, maybe Microsoft saw Apple's security through obscurity model and just thought "if we could get our numbers down to Apple's share, then nobody would attack us." And Vista is the result - an OS so bad nobody wants to use it.

My personal experience? I have hardware that works flawlessly in XP. When I install Vista, its okay until I try to run update. Then I get constant blue screens. I don't want Vista enough to figure out why, so I switched back.

but this makes no sense (2, Interesting)

v1 (525388) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734706)

Not that I classify windows users as sensible people in the first place, but why oh WHY are 90% of the windows computers sold today preloaded with Vista, if so many people can't stand it???

My best guess is that MS is licensing to machine retailers at some ridiculously low rate of like $35 for a $299 install, to insure we get it rammed down our throats whether we want it or not. This being the case, MS is taking a calculated loss on Vista, evidently hoping to get more windows users for whatever comes after vista? I don't think it's going to work out that way?

Re:but this makes no sense (5, Insightful)

Cally (10873) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734738)

You're new round here, right? Microsoft pwns the PC vendors. They push Vista, or they get the hose.

Not entirely true (1)

enoz (1181117) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735066)

Earlier this year Dell reneged on Vista and allowed customers to choose XP [slashdot.org] to be pre-installed on some of their machines.

Re:but this makes no sense (1)

Glowing Fish (155236) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734752)

Microsoft is selling cheap to individual users, in order to make their products the de facto standard, which means large businesses and organizations will continue paying large licensing fees for Windows, Office and the rest of their line.

Re:but this makes no sense (2, Insightful)

mc moss (1163007) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734756)

I've seen some really low-end pc's (512 mb ram, integrated graphics chip) with vista pre-installed. I can't even imagine how slowly vista would run on those computers.

Re:but this makes no sense (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734932)

It makes perfect sense. Microsoft gets to book two OS sales per PC.

One Vista and one XP.

Re:but this makes no sense (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735098)

why oh WHY are 90% of the windows computers sold today preloaded with Vista, if so many people can't stand it?
People are so sold on the idea that the latest must be the greatest, my guess is most users don't want a new PC with an "outdated" OS. Especially with the promise of a service pack that will fix everything just around the corner.

It is the price that is wrong (4, Interesting)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734714)

Vista would be fine if MS was selling it for $10 a pop.

Re:It is the price that is wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734958)

so get a copy of the upgrade from xp - free

No surprise here, but ... (5, Informative)

sk999 (846068) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734744)

... to complete its humiliation, Slashdot has managed to confuse PC Magazine [pcmag.com] , which has nothing to do with the article, with PC World [pcworld.com] which is where the article actually appears: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140583-page,5-c,techindustrytrends/article.html [pcworld.com]

Re:No surprise here, but ... (1)

willyhill (965620) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734762)

Who needs facts or credibility when you're busy partaking in the big $$$ that Microsoft bashing is these days.

there is no humiliation here (1)

Trepidity (597) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734930)

Slashdot recently celebrated its tenth anniversary of not being ashamed about inaccurate article titles, so they're not about to start getting all embarrassed about them now.

For those of you who like Vista (5, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734760)

And I suspect you are many. How do you address the following issues?
  • increased support for DRM which inherently decreases my freedom, especially when applied to broadly
  • continuation of Microsoft's dominance which I have found through experience indirectly hinders my ability to choose the software and hardware that I can make use of
  • the artificially high cost attributed to this operating system
  • the continuation of apparent willful vendor independent standards
  • the continued use as leveraging tool to push Microsoft specific, and often closed psuedo-standards

For those of you who like to live (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734904)

And I suspect you are many. How do you address the following issues?

-the continued contribution of CO2 from breathing
-starving children in Africa while you eat
-original sin
-britney spears
-the continuation of a two-party system
-Slashdot trolls
-the david lynch version of Dune
-the holocaust
-Vista

Re:For those of you who like Vista (4, Insightful)

JebusIsLord (566856) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734908)

Well I can't say I like it, but I do use it, so i'll bite:

This DRM complaint thing - what's the deal? Vista doesn't prevent you from doing anything XP will let you do. They added the ability to play restricted formats, which simply isn't included at all in XP. If you don't like HD-DVD playback, then don't use it! It's not like MS could have offered it without DRM (and not been sued to high hell). I can still rip DVDs and CDs with aplomb.

Its true, but as an IT professional I need to stay current on MS technology, or risk unemployment. At home I use Linux and OSX primarily, though I do play the occasional game on Vista. Hardware though? I don't think Windows restricts your hardware options too much... most stuff works on other OSes too.

Yeah Windows is pricey at retail, but OEM copies aren't that bad (similar to OSX pricing). I agree, though. I got my copy through our MSDN subscription of course so it doesn't apply to me.

Their standards (un-) support is extremely frustrating, probably my #1 complaint. Also why I have to keep a Windows machine around - to find out how to get everything else to work with it. Did you know they broke CIFS again in Vista/Server 2008? Yup.

I use Linux because it's so functional, OSX because its enjoyable, and Windows because I have to.

Re:For those of you who like Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734946)

increased support for DRM which inherently decreases my freedom, especially when applied to broadly
Doesn't affect me.

continuation of Microsoft's dominance which I have found through experience indirectly hinders my ability to choose the software and hardware that I can make use of
Sorry, not seeing it.

the artificially high cost attributed to this operating system
my job pays for MSDN, no cost to me.

the continuation of apparent willful vendor independent standards
Microsoft is on the majority of hadware, that makes them a standard by default.

the continued use as leveraging tool to push Microsoft specific, and often closed psuedo-standards
What, you expect them to push product made by thier competitors? Of course they are pushing thier own products.

I like Vista, it's faster and more stable for me than XP was.

BFD (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734772)

Seems every OS and gadget from 2007 is listed here, including the media darling, the iPhone.

Leopard is listed, which came as a bit of a surprise until I read this:

Adding insult to injury, some upgraders even reported a Windows-like Blue Screen of Death when upgrading from previous Mac OSs.

There's nothing Windows-like about it. There's a big difference between a kernel panic and simply stalling during the boot process on a screen which happens to be a shade of blue.

In mid-November, Apple released an update to Leopard that fixed some of the bugs, including the firewall glitch. Repairing Apple's reputation, however, may take slightly longer.

It speaks volumes that Apple fixed some problems 2 weeks after the OS was initially released. Their reputation is OK with me.

I don't think anything would please the author of this article unless it wiped his ass or gave him a spontaneous orgasm.

(sorry for the sort of off-topic-ish post)

Bogus list (0, Redundant)

Revolver4ever (860659) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734790)

Office 2007? iPhone? Social Networks - and then Facebook as its own entry? Leopard?

All of those could be cut and I'm just listing what I remember from the article. Why did PC World choose 15 when clearly more than half of those are not tech dissapointments at all, or are so vague and general that they should have never been included in the first place?

Sigh...this is a non-story. Vista is not very good, but it's better than this list.

Congrats Microsoft! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734866)

That's a great effort MS! that must be two years running now, right?

PC World not PC Magazine (1)

zoid.com (311775) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734880)

These are not the same publications.

Obligatory. (1)

rgelb1 (472797) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734898)

It does NOT [angryhacker.com] suck.

Re:Obligatory. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734964)

that was retarded

Not to rain on your parade (4, Interesting)

westlake (615356) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734916)

The w3Schools OS Platform stats [w3schools.com] for November:

Vista 6.3%
Growing at slightly under 1% a month.
This train may have been slow leaving the station, but it is building up momentum.

XP 72.8%
XP's loss is Vista's gain?
The so-called "upgrade" migration to XP is beginning to look like just another Geek fantasy.

W2K 5.1%
Some good news for the die-hards.

Linux 3.3%
Slow erosion all year, and not much to show for four years of "The Year of Linux"

OSX 3.9%

A healthy niche, but ending the year where it began.

While I do not defend Vista... (3, Insightful)

Bullfish (858648) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734918)

part of it is that MS put out Vista when there was no need for it. A refresh of an operating system brings new drivers for new stuff, a bit of a different look, and built-in support or roughed in plumbing for what's coming down the pike. With the exception of gamers and videographers, for most people the PC, Mac, what have you, was fast and good enough three years ago. Most people browse the net, post here and there and do some mail/sms. They won't bother with computer or OS upgrades for quite some time, like only if their machine breaks. Companies, well, they dislike change, and the expense it brings, and for their limited computing needs, Vista brings nothing to the table.

The gamers, videographers and other hobbyists, they will have more than enough power to run Vista anyway so that won't really be an issue. That there is not enough superior to XP software for them available in Vista, is another matter.

Really, if Vista fails, it is because MS tried to make a market when there was none. The halcyon days of the 90's when people upgraded like buying shoes is over. Somebody just didn't get the memo.

corepirate nazis named most dangerous entity (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21734944)

no surprise there? their megalomaniacal 'mission' of greed/fear/ego based madness allows for almost all of US/yOUR children to live in darkness/fear or die.

remember, evile never sleeps, & it's running more scared now than ever in yOUR history, because of the growing awareness of its' life0cidal intentions.

in the end game, the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, many of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in.

for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it?

we're intending for the nazi execrable to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather'.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying [google.com]

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continues on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US;

gov. bush denies health care for the little ones

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html [cnn.com]

whilst demanding/extorting billions more to paint more targets on the bigger kids

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html [cnn.com]

all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

alternatively, (yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece [timesonline.co.uk]

still making his views known worldwide, whilst many of US keep yOUR heads firmly lodged up yOUR infactdead.asp(s) hoping (against overwhelming information to the contrary) that the party LIEn scriptdead pr ?firm? fairytail hypenosys scenario will never end.

for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available after the big flash occurs.

'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

I didnt like the list (1)

xrooles (1154553) | more than 6 years ago | (#21734970)

Personally I am not a vista fan, and I love *X, but this article seems too prejudiced.. the list contains major developments, now I think invention of the color picture tube by Philips would be on their most dissapointing list when it was invented.. cause its .. blah blah blah.. I think you need to be not that harsh on the things that are completely new.. The ribbons of MS Office might not be the best, but when you have 1000's of options to choose from, maybe the regular dropdown menu's arnt good eiter.. yes, it has to be disappointment to the current users when you change stuff, but things have to be changed in order to improve.. and personally I liked the idea of ribbons.. Iphone, Zune.. all termed as dissaopintments.. well Probably you were hoping for too much too soon..

didn't Vista "win" in 2006 too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21735030)

It was the most disappointing product last year because, after five years and the infamous codebase "reset", it was finally going to ship in time for the back to school season and Christmas holidays, galvanizing the PC industry in the process. Only the team blew right by those deadlines too, except for "press release" shipments taken by some of Microsoft's best business customers.

Office 2007 made the list? Seriously? (1)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735046)

Come on, after working with Office 2007 for the past four months, I have grown very accustomed to it. I still have 2003 at home, but 2007 isn't bad. In fact, I find that I'm able to mix the different components much better than in 2003.

But then again, maybe that's because I'm more adaptable. The people at PC World appear to be fogies, with their complaint about Office 2007 being the ribbon. They're probably the same kind of people who needed a seminar in order to figure out what all those little buttons across the top 10% of the screen are supposed to do in Office 2003, and had no clue that they also were in the menus until a second seminar.

Grow the fuck up please (-1, Troll)

coryking (104614) | more than 6 years ago | (#21735086)

Seriously. Can we stop with the Vista bashing now? Please?

Remember what your mom told you about the bullies who picked on you? What they say about you is a reflection of how they feel about themselves. Isn't that the truth?

If all you can do is bash other people and their ideas, what does that say about your own person and ideas? Why can't you be proud enough about yourself and your ideas to let them stand on their own? Surely if your ideas were so great they would speak them self, right?
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