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Japanese ATMs To Use Palm Readers In Place of Cash Cards

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the clean-your-hands dept.

Japan 113

alphadogg writes "A Japanese bank this week said it will introduce ATMs that use palm scanners in place of cash cards. Ogaki Kyoristu Bank said the new machines will allow customers to withdraw or deposit cash and check their balances by placing their hand on a scanner and entering their birthday plus a pin number. The ATMs will initially be installed at 10 banks, as well as a drive-through ATM and two mobile banks. Ogaiki announced the new ATMs with the slogan 'You are your cash card.'"

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Well that's cool (5, Funny)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651347)

I can get my fortune read... I wonder how much that adds to the transaction fee

Re:Well that's cool (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651397)

a fortune?

Re:Well that's cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651763)

How much money you get depends on your future luck. That's a clever system, it's self-fulfilling.

Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (2)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651833)

Gotta have it done Yakuza style.

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39652189)

Or, you know, modify the account to disable access, like a normal bank.

You Slashdotters are fucking morons.

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39654721)

1: card get compromised (lost/skimmed)
2: revoke credentials (block card)
3: receive new credentials (new card/PIN)
4: access money

Please explain scenario with palm scans? A onetime fix is to use the other hand, but then?

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (1)

sirlark (1676276) | more than 2 years ago | (#39654889)

I thought of this when I saw the headline too; I've long had issues with the whole idea of using biometics as a security feature pecisely because they can't be revoked and are, at least in the case of fingerprints, easy to compromise. But RTFS again. The bank is proposing the replacment of the card with the palm scan. That is, they're replacing the physical identification token, not the security access component. They are retaining pin numbers. You just don't have to carry a physical card around with you anymore. If anything, I'd say this is one of the more sensible uses for biometrics I've seen.

To answer your question directly:

  1. Palm scan gets compromised/duplicated
  2. Pin changed (just to be sure)
  3. Duplicate palm scan is useless

Granted this relies on the idea that any payment will always require a PIN entry, not the case with credit cards for example.

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (2)

N1AK (864906) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655497)

Actually what you said isn't entirely true. If someone steals your credit card and you cancel it then the card they have can never work, even if they got your new pin. If someone gets your palm print and you change your pin then they still have a valid palm print. There is a reason cards get cancelled when stolen and we don't just change the pin. You also can't change your DOB so if they had that then the only thing they're missing is your PIN.

Is it a big enough issue to stop this from working? I'm not sure, but I can't say it's a good idea without seeing a lot more evidence to support that conclusion.

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (1)

Golddess (1361003) | more than 2 years ago | (#39656665)

In the end, whether it's a new card or a new PIN, it's all just numbers you're changing around. The only difference is the number of numbers. So maybe if PINs were 16 digits long instead of 4...

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (1)

durrr (1316311) | more than 2 years ago | (#39657831)

If someone steals your hand, I think your bank account is the last thing on your mind.

Re:Revoking Credentials is a Bitch (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#39654753)

Yeah, I'm amazed a bank wouldn't have thought of that, considering how often they end up sending out new cards and resetting PIN numbers. Perhaps the PIN only defaults to your birthday and should then be changed.

Re:Well that's cool (1)

HertzaHaeon (1164143) | more than 2 years ago | (#39654509)

The funny thing is that if you go to Japan, you see these palm readers who set up shop at night on streets, with a tiny booth and everything. I immediately thought of them when I read this.

Re:Well that's cool (1)

LifeIs0x2A (2615925) | more than 2 years ago | (#39656323)

If it's a good fortune you might get some interest..

In other news... (4, Funny)

bdabautcb (1040566) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651389)

... there has been an unexplainable increase in muggings resulting in chopping of of hands.

Re:In other news... (1)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651437)

dang you beat me to it....

Re:In other news... (2, Funny)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651527)

How are they going to enter a PIN with no hands?

Re:In other news... (1)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651677)

i can't tell if you got whooshed or if you're whooshing me. oh well. whoosh!

Re:In other news... (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653763)

Cheek-print!

Re:In other news... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651567)

Thats probably one reason why they added the pin code still being needed.

Re:In other news... (2)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#39656001)

"Give me your PIN or I will cut your hand off!"

No wait...

Re:In other news... (1)

mrmeval (662166) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651673)

I've done quotes on it sometime before this, of course I can't find it.
"The difficulty with hacking biometrics is keeping the body parts alive. " --mrmeval.

I've done poetry on it:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=184870&cid=15266574 [slashdot.org]

Re:In other news... (4, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651859)

That all depends on if it needs to be alive. I remember a study with gummy bears and some older fingerprint readers...

I'm not completely against biometrics, I just think they need to be thought through VERY thoroughly. I'd envision a few necessary provisions:
1) must include confirmation that body part is still attached to the living body (possibly with something like pulse oximetry? (I'd think that would be difficult to fake?))
2) must still require some form of authentication (PIN or otherwise), and should include capability for a duress code. (If your debit card is stolen, you aren't in real physical danger after the theft, if you are kidnapped and forced to go with them to the bank, you are)
3) must include provisions in case of legitimate injury to said body part. (what if I loose my hand in an industrial accident, the injury itself is bad enough, the inability to access my money would just add to an already lousy situation)

Re:In other news... (4, Interesting)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651913)

Hate to reply to self, but:

4) include provisions to change if hacked. (Don't assume it's impossible, if someone manages to "copy" my hand, I want a way to have that access disabled and change to some other way of authenticating, now we get issued new debit cards, I'm not ready to change my hand if someone manages to copy it.)

Re:In other news... (1)

Mitreya (579078) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652743)

4) include provisions to change if hacked. (Don't assume it's impossible, if someone manages to "copy" my hand...

Well, you'll just get a new hand...?
All the schemes with un-changeable authentication methods are such a bad idea. Hasn't using SSN demonstrated that? And I am sure once the biometric passports are widespread, they will prove that too.

Re:In other news... (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652821)

Not necessarily, there are other ways around it, for example if your right hand is hacked, use your left, or revert to a card system, or use a retinal scan, or something else.
My point isn't that it's impossible to overcome this challenge, because I don't believe it is. My point was that this is something that needs to be taken in to account before deployment.

Re:In other news... (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655617)

for example if your right hand is hacked, use your left,

And if both hands are hacked, use the stumps...

Re:In other news... (1)

Aaron B Lingwood (1288412) | more than 2 years ago | (#39654157)

Well, you'll just get a new hand...?

Franchise Opportunity
You can become a Re-Hand(TM) franchisee for $0 upfront (T.A.P)

Re:In other news... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39652151)

I presume they are using Fujitsu's palm-vein technology (which is already in some ATMs) then #1 isn't a problem as it uses the blood flow through your hand for the reading. It doesn't read the palm print but the actual vein structure within the palm.

I have no idea in regards to how it is handled for #2, we have only really worked with companies that have done School lunch & hospital implementations in the US

For #3, they usually register both hands, although if both are damaged, they still need a backup system.

Re:In other news... (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652373)

Interesting. I'm assuming that the palm-vein technology won't read the veins properly unless there is blood actively flowing?

As for both hands, the machines I've seen (very primitive ones, so possibly not comparable) were designed for only one hand, or the other, not both (ie, everyone had to use their right hand, left hands wouldn't sit right on the scanner due to positioning of pegs designed to sit between the fingers) If it can actually read either hand, that's definitely a step the right direction (though if you have neither hand, you're still screwed, but at a certain point that's always the case)

Now that still leaves the problem of duress, and what to do if someone does manage to make a functional copy of your hand (I refuse to believe that any technology exists that is impossible to fool, no matter how difficult it may be) (maybe though you have it in the both hands part, unregister the one they copied and use the other one?)

Technological excess (1)

QuincyDurant (943157) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652157)

pulse oximetry

How about just tougher laws against cutting peoples' hands off at the wrist instead? Just a suggestion

Re:Technological excess (4, Interesting)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652327)

Doesn't work. Many studies have shown that tougher laws are rarely accompanied by any decrease at all in the activity being regulated.
The problem isn't the severity of the punishment, but the percieved likelyhood of being caught. Seems in general, once you get past a very low threshold, it doesn't matter how severe the punishment, people are either worried they will be caught, and follow the rules, or don't think they will, and break the law.

Note it doesn't matter what the actual likelyhood of being caught is, only the perception. This has been shown in places such as New York where focussing on petty crime (graffitti, jaywalking, etc) caused a reduction in more severe offences, the theory being that the Police were more visible, and more people were talking about being caught, so the perception of what you could get away with changed, even though the overall likelyhood of being caught for the higher offences was largely unchanged, and the punishments were unchanged.

Now back on topic, the sort of crime envisioned here would probably be much less likely to occur than someone stealing a debit/credit card now (It's both a phycological threshold as well as a legal threshold that you would cross from simple theft to assault causing bodily harm, and that will weed out some (most?) criminals, however the severity of the offence is significantly higher, and any criminals left in the group willing to cross that threshold will cause severe damage. That's not a tradeoff everyone is willing to make.

Re:Technological excess (1)

QuincyDurant (943157) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652477)

I agree. We need better enforcement of laws against cutting off people's hands at the wrist. What we don't need is an over-engineered ATM machine.

Re:Technological excess (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652603)

And why not? There are really only 2 ways to lower crime rates.
1) strong enforcement, this is either a) not effective, or b) extremely intrusive, or more likely c) both. Not to mention very expensive.
2) Removing incentive to commit the crime in the first place, this is relatively cheap, effective, and when done properly, non-intrusive.

You are arguing for the choice envisioned by the creators of the TSA, PATRIOT act, SOPA, etc... and you don't see why that might be an unpopular opinion on Slashdot?

Re:Technological excess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653645)

Automated teller machine machine? Talk about over engineered.

I bet you say "PIN number" and "LCD display" too.

Re:Technological excess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39657115)

Yeah, those automated ATM machines always ask for my personal PIN number on the liquid crystal LCD display where the backlight is from light emitting LEDs. However I don't know if they communicate over local LAN or wireless WLAN network. I guess they use the internet IP protocol, though. :-)

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39652379)

1) must include confirmation that body part is still attached to the living body (possibly with something like pulse oximetry? (I'd think that would be difficult to fake?))

Why?

Does your ATM check to make sure I haven't put a few rounds of 7.62mm in you then divested your sopping corpse of your wallet?

Re:In other news... (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652527)

No, but in reality people rarely kill someone for their ATM card, they take the card, (and maybe the whole wallet) but usually don't do permanent damage to the victim (there are of course always exceptions). Now if they have to take my whole hand to accomplish the same thing, I'd really rather not give them an incentive to cause me bodily harm. Never mind the fact that making sure it's a living hand also stops attacks similar to the gummy bear attack used on early fingerprint readers, and you can see some definite benefits to doing this.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653099)

The palm readers I use on a frequent basis require me to squeeze some pins together, which pretty effectively ensures the hand still works.

Re:In other news... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653403)

what if I loose my hand in an industrial accident

Good physical therapy can tighten that right back up for you.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653929)

what if I loose my hand in an industrial accident

Can't you tighten it with screws?

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39656831)

also liability for the bank if their security policy results in people getting their hands or other body part hacked off.

Re:In other news... (2)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653041)

So hacking is a crime?

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39654233)

Mein Handy! [youtube.com]

"Your hand or your life" (1)

GeneralSecretary (1959616) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651401)

How do you say that in Japanese?

Re:"Your hand or your life" (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651737)

Just make a sign [google.com] .

Re:"Your hand or your life" (1)

EkriirkE (1075937) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652513)

"tega shinnu" i think?

Re:"Your hand or your life" (1)

FishTankX (1539069) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653875)

It would be 'te ka inochi'. But that has no implied meaning of 'Give me one or you loose the other'. If you wish to say, literally, 'allow me to use your hand, or I will take your life', it would be something like 'te wo tsukawasenakatara korosu yo'. Yes, agglutinating languages can create some monster words.

This just in (3, Funny)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651413)

The most popular nick name in Japan, "Lefty".

Mysterious spate of hand amputations in Japan (2)

Aguazul2 (2591049) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651421)

Not sure I want my card permanently attached to me with blood and tendons and stuff.

Next time you get mugged in Japan (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651429)

They won't just take your wallet but also your hand.

Re:Next time you get mugged in Japan (1)

BlueTrin (683373) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655375)

Is this a thread about forced marriage ?

PIN Number (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651445)

Personal Identification Number Number

I assume you also meant ATM Machine?

Re:PIN Number (2)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651731)

pleonasms are a safe haven for redundant tautologists. basically it's fundamental.

Re:PIN Number (3, Funny)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652479)

Wow, you sound like you have a high IQ quotient.

Gummy Bear Supply Chain... (5, Funny)

aaronb1138 (2035478) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651483)

Gummy bear manufacturers inexplicably inundated with requests for large, softball sized gummy products.

In truth though, I really hope they are scanning the sub-dermal print rather than the surface.

Re:Gummy Bear Supply Chain... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651601)

You just have to carve up a party gummy. (it's like a 25lb gummy bear).

Re:Gummy Bear Supply Chain... (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652235)

In truth though, I really hope they are scanning the sub-dermal print rather than the surface.

There are some facial recognition systems that use IR to look at capillary patterns or some such thing to prevent spoofing by photos. These systems would also fail should something (a machete) detach a limb or other organ for the bio-scan.

Re:Gummy Bear Supply Chain... (1)

Kharny (239931) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655361)

those would work rather badly in countries where it gets cold in winter then?

About time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651491)

The best/easiest 2 factor auth gets (assuming their hardware/ algorithms don't suck) short of an iris scan

I see a lot of strong arm robberies (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651533)

I foresee a large number of strong arm robberies, where they make money hand over unclenched fist.

Buddha Palm technique, anyone?

Cellphone Forced Use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651611)

I bet this is a way to force people to use cellphones, for better tracking of people... both for marketing and for government control. May sound like just a conspiracy theory, but tying payment to an electronic device that has built in tracking just seems like a scheme that is meant to combat crimes related to money. In actual fact, of course, it just makes the crimes different in nature, but that is a different story...

I know a ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651623)

... group in South Dallas that would pop your eye out for a forty. Never mind chopping your hand off.

Re:I know a ... (1)

Datamonstar (845886) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652351)

As a Dallas resident, I wish to gain membership in said company in the pursuit of obtaining henchmanship within a successful super-crime organization. Is there perhaps a website or RSS feed that I could subscribe to for more details.?

Yay disease! (1)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651651)

Welcome to the newest way to catch that virus going around! High five?

Re:Yay disease! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651837)

Viruses are rarely transmitted from person to person by touching something with the hand. Unless your skin is not intact, or, after touching something, you stick some part of your hand (i.e., a finger) into some part of you not protected by intact skin (like an anus, a vagina, an eye, a nose, or a mouth), you have nothing to worry about. You're more at risk from bacteria that live on the skin's surface. A simple solution to both problems, is of course that the device sense when a hand is inserted, and removed from the area where the pad is, and after removal, sterilize/sanitize the site. Too easy.

I guess what I'm saying is, "WASH YOUR HANDS BEFORE YOU STICK ANY PART OF ONE INTO A BODILY OPENING OR RUB YOUR EYES, which amounts to the same thing. Then you're fine. Such a system as this bank is proposing will ENCOURAGE people, if they don't want to get sick, to become more conscientious about hand hygiene.

Good! Can't wait for such a system to be put into effect here. Only they shouldn't have to enter a birth date, since it's not like that's hard to find out. Also, they should use just a fingerprint reader, the kind you have to draw your finger across, instead, so that you can't just make a copy of someone's hand print then use it... or better yet, just take a high-res photo of someone's face, including matching iris patterns, or retinas. Or a combination of the above.

But I could be wrong.

Re:Yay disease! (1)

Jappus (1177563) | more than 2 years ago | (#39654737)

As far as I can remember, you're still entering your PIN with your fingers, aren't you? And everybody's using the same keypad, too. Not to mention the usual places people use as arm-rests on those machines while they wait for their card/money.

In other words: You touch stuff that was touched by other beings all the time. Our evolution was constrained by that. As such, most living things on this planet -- including you -- has a neat facility that is called "immune system". It also works almost all the time, as far as I've heard.

Finally! (1)

Spykk (823586) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651655)

At last, a way to profit from the disdain of the fairer sex. A little baby powder on each cheek and a night in the bar should set me up for life.

Re:Finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651785)

You get slapped every time you go to a bar?

Hygiene and broken arms. (4, Interesting)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651671)

I used to do a ton of work in a colo facility at a previous company. The colo I worked required you to use the hand scanner to get into and out of the "man trap" by the lobby. This was a problem in two ways:

1. To get to the restroom you had to go through the lobby. No telling how many people would use the restroom and then bypass washing their hands, proceeding directly to the hand scanner and back to the datacenter. You had to put your hand on a metal plate and in my 2years working in this colo, I never saw them once clean that thing.

2. About 8 months into my job, I broke my right hand and it required me to wear a hard cast. The hand scanner was not made for your left hand, but your right hand palm down due to the orientation of some plastic finger pegs. So with a broken hand, not only did I have to call security every time I needed to go through a door, but they called a VP every time i entered the facility.

So good luck if you hurt your right hand or don't want to receive the bacteria from the previous users.

Re:Hygiene and broken arms. (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652177)

No telling how many people would use the restroom and then bypass washing their hands, proceeding directly to the hand scanner and back to the datacenter.

Compared to how many people walk around with their finger up their nostril to the second knuckle?

Wash your hands before eating lunch. Other than that, all bets are off.

Re:Hygiene and broken arms. (2)

Main Gauche (881147) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653173)

I never saw them once clean that thing.

Dude, it's Japan. A little spray nozzle comes out after each use, followed by a mini-squeegie.

Re:Hygiene and broken arms. (1)

Tig3RStyluS (2444638) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655215)

1. The palm vein sensor works at a distance of a few inches.. you dont need to come into contact with any metal plate so your concerns about hygiene are not necessary.

2. The palm vein sensor is not left or right hand coded. You are required to enrol when you are setup on the system. At that point you can choose which hand you want to enrol using the device and software. I assume the enrol process employed by the bank would be a bit like the IRIS enrolment at airports.. That is inside the bank they would offer you the opportunity to go through the enrol process. This would allow flexibility to change the hand with which you are enrolled in case you had your entire chosen hand in a cast or had it sliced clean off in an industrial accident or it might allow you to enrol both and use either.

Much of the above depends on how its been implemented by the integrator and bank. Where i have seen/used this before there was a fallback to a pin number system in case of issues such as the one you made in point 2 or to add an extra layer of security. As somebody else already pointed out, unlike fingerprint biometrics, you cannot use a dead hand, it has to be a live hand with bloodflow for the signature of the palm to be read by the sensor. The technology works very well and is impressive, it could be used in so many other applications, ATM is just an obvious one but i would sure feel safer if my bank implemented this technology.

Re:Hygiene and broken arms. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655899)

No telling how many people would use the restroom and then bypass washing their hands, proceeding directly to the hand scanner and back to the datacenter.

That applies to keypads of all kinds though. At least you have the option of wearing gloves I guess. In some ways the idea of a retinal scan at a distance like in Minority Report is kinda attractive from a hygiene point of view, but simultaneously terrifying in every other respect.

Re:Hygiene and broken arms. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39656927)

There is the scene of an eye ball in a bag... Not sure which is worse.
Just a reminder that biometric is not user friendly if someone decided to rob you regardless.

do you see (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651675)

the number of the beast hath arrived, and that number is yours, unchangeable and permanent.

ATM has palm reader? (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651767)

ATM: "Hmmm, I see from your lifeline ... well, you might as well leave the money in the bank, you won't need it in about ten minutes..."

ATM: "I see a tall well-dressed woman in your future. You better take out more money." (To provide some context for /. readers, "woman" is what your mom is, and when you date well-dressed ones it takes money to keep them happy. A "date" is, well, nevermind. Clean up your bedroom. As long as you live under my roof you follow my rules.)

ATM: "Your sun is in ascencion and all will go well in that fiscal matter you are contemplating. There will be a $2 fee for this transaction."

Re:ATM has palm reader? (1)

Fjandr (66656) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652789)

And here I was investing in the new Tea Leaves reader technology. Dammit, I'm gonna lose everything...

Re:ATM has palm reader? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39657289)

A "date" is, well, nevermind.

A date is a fruit which grows on date trees, right?

Adds new meaning the an already abused term ... (3, Funny)

DrJimbo (594231) | more than 2 years ago | (#39651771)

... hacking.

Old News (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39651989)

Japanese banks have been using Hitachi's Jomon (finger vein) authentication system for at least five years. It sounds like Fujitsu found a way to get their inferior biometric product into a few banks.

Hard To Do (1)

glorybe (946151) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652045)

These merciless banks have no concept how hard it is to beat someone down and whack off a hand and then carry it to the ATM with nobody noticing. All that hacking to get the hand off wrecks your clothes and you get all covered with blood every time. You even stand a huge chance of injury or even death if you pick the wrong person to take down and murder. What is a thug to do?

Re:Hard To Do (1)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652233)

I'll bet if you dip the stump in superglue, it'll seal it up pretty good.

e4/! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39652165)

What about ... (1)

Kittenman (971447) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652289)

Friend here in the office chews her thumb. She's almost been denied entry to the States once or twice as the fingerprint-taker won't get a good reading off a nibbled digit.

So will finger-chewers be able to withdraw their cash? Come to that, how about amputees? Or the remaining thalidomide generation?

Re:What about ... (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653849)

Sounds like your friend needs meds. I doubt implementers care about the small percentage of head cases.

Do they tell fortunes? (1)

batray (257663) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652599)

If they are using palm readers I want to know if they will also being telling fortunes each time you make a transaction.

Re:Do they tell fortunes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39657349)

How do you think they decide whether you get a credit?

This is the future I envisioned (1)

Lord_of_the_nerf (895604) | more than 2 years ago | (#39652635)

High five a robot and get paid.

Only in Japan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39652757)

Only Japan would be able to implement palm scanning technology in ATMs while still charging you a fee for using your own bank's ATM outside of the bank's 9am-3pm business hours.

Another funny thing is you are charged the same amount whether you use of of your bank's ATMs(after 3pm) or one of the ones at convenience stores.

Great (1)

slapout (93640) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653139)

Great, now instead of just stealing your card they're going to hold you at gunpoint and take you to the ATM. Plus now they'll know your birthday!

Re:Great (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653437)

Or cut off your hand...

Re:Great (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 2 years ago | (#39655389)

Great, now instead of just stealing your card they're going to hold you at gunpoint and take you to the ATM. Plus now they'll know your birthday!

They'd do that anyway -- how else can they check your pin number

Is being mugged at gunpoint really something you consider in your country?

Slowesville (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653197)

So this will mean ATM queues are even slower, as people will now have to enter two sets of numbers instead of one. Technology is supposed to improve our lives.

A bad idea that won't go away (3, Interesting)

Tony Isaac (1301187) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653797)

Using biometric identification for ATMs or for building security has been tried many times, but it always turns out to be complex and unreliable. In the late 90s, banks tried to use iris scanners [lmtonline.com] . In 2001, I worked for a company that used fingerprint scanners for building access, instead of key cards. We often had to try numerous times to get a good thumbprint read, so we could get into the building.

The banks, and my company, both replaced these systems with magnetic stripes or RFID...because those technologies, while not so "cool," were more reliable and cheaper. I predict that this Japanese bank will soon be going back to the old ATM cards.

Please fix your banking system first (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39653861)

Well, this is another perfect example of fixing what is not broken, instead of improving the system. Everytime I try to get money from an ATM outside of the opening times (of the ATM, not the bank office, mind you) I have to either pay a fee, or on Sundays it is flat out impossible (ATMs running and saying they're out of order). Another example: when I want to pay something, I have to take my card to the ATM, get the money, walk with the money to the convenience store, pay in cash. Why? Why won't you just let me pay with your stupid plastic card, like I can everywhere in Germany (electronic cash, it just works) without fees.

Another example: you can't use online banking in some banks if you have lived less than 6 months in the country. Reason: none. Yet another example: Japanese companies frequently refuse to accept my (english) credit card. Reason: none. "American" companies like Amazon.co.jp don't have such problems, it's magic!

Oh I really look forward how they are going to fuck this up? Palm readers that don't fit non-japanese hands maybe? Palm readers that work only on random days? Palm readers that only work if you lived 10 years in Japan? I'm honestly excited what they are going to cook up!

I'm confused (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39654731)

We've had palm-reader ATMs for a long time. This isn't anything new. Mitubishi's ATM almost all have this. (And JP Post Yucho bank has fingerprint scanners instead). The only thing is that if you restrict your account to only be able to use these type of machines, then you can't use the ATMs at convenience stores.

How about interbank interoperability? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39655095)

Well, the Japanese is finally trying to bring their banking system kicking and screaming into the new century. On a recent visit there I must admit I was surprised how backwards their banking system were considering they are light years ahead of everybody else in other departments. I come from a supposedly third-world country (South Africa), but here ATM's just work. You can draw money at any ATM of any bank (if you don't care about cost) and ATMs are open 24/7. Every single ATM in South Africa works with Maestro/VISA electron cards.

Not so Japan:
1) In general, you cannot draw money from another bank's ATM.
2) Some ATM's are only open during business hours.
3) VISA Electron/Maestro card--- be prepared to run around trying to find an ATM.
4) Credit Cards.... you can forget about it.

At least now you will be able to press your paw against the machine, if you find the right machine from the right bank :-)

Tiem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39655817)

Tiem to go cut some hands n' palms off people, gear up for the revolution. I'll be rich!

Try again.. (2)

gvozd (239659) | more than 2 years ago | (#39657041)

This is a bad idea. Biometrics are passwords that can't be changed.

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