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Microsoft Co-founder Dings Windows 8 As 'Puzzling, Confusing'

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the solid-color-rectangles dept.

Windows 343

CWmike writes "Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen has called Windows 8 'puzzling' and 'confusing initially,' but assured users that they would eventually learn to like the new OS. Allen, who co-founded Microsoft with Bill Gates in 1975, left the company in 1983 after being diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease. In a post to his personal blog on Tuesday, Allen said he has been running Windows 8 Release Preview — the public sneak peak Microsoft shipped May 31 — on both a traditional desktop as well as on a Samsung 700T tablet, designed for Windows 7. 'I did encounter some puzzling aspects of Windows 8,' Allen wrote, and said the dual, and dueling user interfaces (UIs), were confusing. 'The bimodal user experience can introduce confusion, especially when two versions of the same application — such as Internet Explorer — can be opened and run simultaneously,' Allen said."

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You'll learn to like it. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41534961)

Or we'll fucking kill you!!

Re:You'll learn to like it. (4, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 2 years ago | (#41534973)

Almost.

They'll hold your hard work hostage in the guise of proprietary application and data formats instead.

Considering that there are standard data formats (5, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535061)

Considering that there are standard data formats readable today that date back to the 1960s - they are so old that they have EBCDIC headers instead of ASCII - Microsoft really have no excuse for their hidden, shifting then obsolete data formats. When you can't even open a file with the newer version of the software it was written on that is a bit bit of a kick in the nuts of your previous customers.

Re:You'll learn to like it. (2)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535231)

Or we'll fucking kill you!!

Ha! I'll just switch to Ubuntu and Unity - oh wait... Damn. (sigh)

Like he said (4, Funny)

Mska (2742945) | more than 2 years ago | (#41534965)

Users will like it in the end. Just like people like Ribbon now, even if they were confused first.

Re:Like he said (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41534991)

We will be forced to like it as manufacturers will set it as your only option. Reports so have not been good so far.There have been some user that have liked but not many.

Re:Like he said (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535125)

Wrong. You have the option to NOT buy and use Windows.

Buy a Mac.

Or buy a PC w/o an OS and use Linux or FreeBSD.

Re:Like he said (2)

knuthin (2255242) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535423)

Anyone knowing a site that gives a list of PCs/laptops without an OS?

Re:Like he said (2)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535909)

byo (build your own) + debian = save a crapload of money... works for me :)

Re:Like he said (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41534995)

Or they will keep bashing it and refuse to have anything to do with it... Kind of like Vista. If it's anything like Vista, Windows 9 will be a much more refined OS based on Windows 8 and everybody will like it.

Re:Like he said (5, Informative)

Panoptes (1041206) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535051)

"Just like people like Ribbon now" Personal opinion presented as a fact doesn't really contribute much to the discussion.

Re:Like he said (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535225)

YOU WILL USE IT AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!

If not, well, we've got your money and no backsies.

Re:Like he said (4, Interesting)

santax (1541065) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535055)

Let me get one thing straight. I do not like Ribbon... I really really hate Ribbon. Before Ribbon on my windows system I would use MS Office and on my linux system Open (libre) Office, These days I run Libre on both and make damn sure that anything I program, does not contain ribbons. Too many damn clicks to get to what you want. That's not what automation is about.

Re:Like he said (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535109)

I love the ribbon and use it in all my (commercial and oss) applications. Never had a single complaint about it.

Re:Like he said (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535169)

And you're free to do so :)

Re:Like he said (5, Informative)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535207)

Sure. If I'll ever come across your software, I'll probably not complain either. I'll just not use it.

Re:Like he said (1)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536021)

Also, Apple Maps works just fine, and there are no American tanks within 1500 miles of Baghdad.

Re:Like he said (2, Informative)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535863)

As someone who runs the IT for an office that uses Office 2010, the biggest complaint is the Ribbon. Everyone hates it, they ask why they can't use the old system, blah blah blah. It drives me nuts.

Those that I've shown Windows 8 laugh at me & say "I just got used to the start menu, Microsoft can get fucked if they think I'll use this".

I'm not sure who committed to this interface, but they need to be publicly flogged. Some streaming would be good too during said flogging.

Re:Like he said (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535073)

All it takes is to gradually push Win8 UI elements onto unsuspecting Win7 users in a form of unavoidable updates. When they make Win7 look even worse, people will start switching to Win8. You can expect some rectangles being pushed to Win7 once Win8 sales miss expectations...

Welcome to Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41534967)

Still not as good as a linux desktop or a pure android tablet

Re:Welcome to Windows 8 (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41534993)

Still not as good as a linux desktop or a pure android tablet

Indeed. Good thing I'm not forced to use any of those, I'll just stick to Windows 7!

Re:Welcome to Windows 8 (3, Insightful)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535213)

Still not as good as a linux desktop

Well, the developers of Linux desktop environments are working hard to change that. :-)

Re:Welcome to Windows 8 (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535925)

there will always be bash

Peak? (4, Insightful)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#41534985)

I see this mistake being made all the damn time and, well, it's STILL "sneak peek." A peak is e.g. the top of a mountain or a sudden, high jump in a graph whereas peek is about taking a quick look at something.

Re:Peak? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535049)

Sneak peak is what you get when a pretty walks by floating sweet sexy smell and you have to bend forward slightly or -

OK, OK, no need to get angry, I'm shutting up and leaving already...

Rodger Ramjet confused as well (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535069)

Rodger Ramjet in one episode had to fly to Betternot Peak :)

Re:Peak? (1)

jovius (974690) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535099)

Sneak peak sounds more like micro and soft though.

Re:Peak? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535101)

No, it's correct. Because Windows has reached its peak, and now it's downhll all the way.

Re:Peak? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535609)

what, you don't like peap shows?

Re:Peak? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535769)

Twitter.com/stealthmountain

It's improductive (3, Insightful)

Wainamoinen (891945) | more than 2 years ago | (#41534999)

For me it's quite simple Windows 8 interface doesn't make me more productive.

Looking at my physical desktop, I don't have fancy clocks, tons of post-its, shinny gadgets... No, just a couple of books, some papers. I don't want distractions. I want to be focused on my work.

I'll leave Windows, I'll return to GNU/Linux now that it's more matured, tons of great applications an a solid OS.

Re:It's improductive (4, Interesting)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535083)

For me it's quite simple Windows 8 interface doesn't make me more productive.

Unless you use a tablet; where its just fine. Or count the fact its genuinely snappier than Windows 7... both of which are positives for productivity.

Looking at my physical desktop, I don't have fancy clocks, tons of post-its, shinny gadgets... No, just a couple of books, some papers. I don't want distractions. I want to be focused on my work.

And when you launch 'desktop mode' its pretty much windows 7; but faster, and even fewer distractions. Sounds good to me.

Really, I've been running windows 8 on one box for a couple months now. My biggest complaints are that there isn't a button on the task bar for the start menu -- its 'hot corners' and the shutdown command is a bit klutzier to get to. The former is an easy tweak to fix if i care enough; disable hotcorners, add a 'button'. The latter even easier.

The new start menu is really no less efficient to use than the old one on a desktop. Its a bit more distracting that it goes full screen, but thats about it, and as a result I'm motivated to pin more apps so i use it pretty rarely.

I expect we'll see some refinements over the next little bit, but really, on a desktop I never use the metro tile stuff, so its just not relevant. I cleaned up my start menu so there are no pinned tiles for shit i don't care about, same as i've always removed irrelevant default crap from my start menu. Overall the win8 desktop experience is fine with minimal tweaks.

As a tablet/ultrabook OS its a big improvement over win7.

WinRT (ARM)-- I'm not impressed or interested in it whatsoever, and hope it gets axed.

Re:It's improductive (3, Insightful)

Swampash (1131503) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535127)

Wait, you're saying it's "snappier"? Well shit, that's all my objections taken care of. Because we all know "snappierness" is the only objective metric that matters.

Re:It's improductive (0)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535301)

Well shit, that's all my objections taken care of. Because we all know "snappierness" is the only objective metric that matte

You complained it made you less productive. It being essentially the same and faster is a direct counter to that comment.

Re:It's improductive (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535945)

if you honestly think win8 is essentially the same and faster than win7 in the sense that productivity is increased you are truly a moron

Re:It's improductive (4, Insightful)

humanrev (2606607) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535791)

Its a bit more distracting that it goes full screen, but thats about it, and as a result I'm motivated to pin more apps so i use it pretty rarely.

Wouldn't that suggest that the new Start screen is a failure then? The fact you have to pin more apps than normal sounds very much like a workaround for deficiencies which didn't exist in Windows 7. Heck, I have about half of my Superbar in Windows 7 full pinned apps already - the rest I launch from the "recently launched" area of the Start menu (and the remainder via search of course). Does the Windows 8 Start screen have a recently launched area at least?

Or else?? (5, Insightful)

composer777 (175489) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535001)

I find it pretty sad that even Allen is finding problems with it. I can't say I understand the necessity of making a workstation OS easy-to-use on a phone. They should have been focusing on making it work better on, you know, workstations. For example, I have 3960x1600 pixels of resolution on my current workstation, and windows is a complete dog in terms of window management. How exactly does Windows 8 address this? It doesn't, but gee, it works great on a cellphone/tablet, which maybe I'd care about if I actually ran Visual Studio on a fucking cell phone. As it stands, this UI is an inconsistent piece of garbage, whose sole purpose seems to be to force me to waste my time learning how to use their mobile UI, in the hopes that maybe I'll be more likely to buy one of their tablets.

Re:Or else?? (2)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535177)

If I were allowed to grant you 6 mod points, I would sir. It's not about the platfrom per-se. It's about how it's being used. Windows 8 and Ubuntu have followed the same track as to catering to those that would rather dick around and not produce anything. To people like me, that produces things, this is a drawback.

It's ok that they go on this track for consumers of things; but for god sake, make something for the rest of us that are producers of things.

Re:Or else?? (5, Insightful)

bertok (226922) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535249)

It's ok that they go on this track for consumers of things; but for god sake, make something for the rest of us that are producers of things.

The sad thing is that they actually have done that, but then layered the stupid mobile crap on top, hiding the productivity-enhancing goodness underneath!

For example, PowerShell 3.0 is a pretty big step forward. I've been using the CTP and now the RTM build on Windows 7, and I love it.

The guts of Windows Server 2012 are better than the previous versions, but it's all hidden behind the new Server Manager that has been re-authored to have the "formerly known as Metro style, but not a really a Metro app, because Metro can't actually be used to... do things." The result is a hideous application that doesn't look like anything else in the operating system, and has a terrible control layout that's both confusing and slow. For example, after you open a "menu", you see about three items. About two seconds later, more items appear in the menu. That's just about the worst GUI design failure I've seen since I've had the misfortune of having to use X11 applications, where some buttons perform their command when the mouse button is depressed, and some perform the command when the mouse button is released.

The core: better than ever, better even than UNIX/Linux in many areas, including the command-line!

The skin: worse than ever, worse even than the inconsistency than UNIX/Linux is sometimes bashed for, but all within one operating system that I assume follows some sort of "design guidelines".

Re:Or else?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535321)

This.

Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (2, Interesting)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535505)

Tell you what - try remote managing a Win7/8 machine purely via the command line (of course you'll have to install sshd since MS don't bother to ship one) then get back to me about how much "better" the windows one is.

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535595)

To be fair, rdesktop does a good job of that. Also, telnet (Yeah living in the past, but it works.).

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535955)

telnet

why don't you just hand over your car keys to the nearest group of thugs while you're at it

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (2)

CxDoo (918501) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535649)

You are not really familiar with Windows younger than XP?

Keywords:
PowerShell
WinRM
WinRS

Knock yourself out.

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535993)

bash,ssh,nfs,samba,etc

powershell is just clambering (poorly) for some *nix shell cred

windows server is still windows... ie... it has windows, and windows (dialog hell) is what makes windows suck so much on a server. you should be able to manage a server from a simple command line and make scripts to automate things

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (4, Informative)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535659)

You may be unaware of this, but Powershell supports remote operation, and can be used to completley administer a machine (recent versions of Windows Server ship without the graphics subsystem, relying on Powershell for full administration). People do what you derisively suggest that somebody "try" all the time.

Re:Better than the unix command line? Seriously? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536057)

so windows server is becoming more like linux... go figure

Re:Or else?? (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535581)

"Buried under..." blah blah blah. So why isn't it on top instead of the bottom of all of the bullshit?!

Re:Or else?? (2)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535685)

Actually, Win8 helps on systems like yours a lot. For example, the multi-monitor support is vastly improved, with things like the taskbar spanning multiple monitors and showing the windows open on each monitor on that monitor's taskbar. I really don't get why people keep talking about the Metro experience on a desktop; it's neither required, nor important. There's plenty of non-Metro features, some of which are long-overdue improvements to the desktop. Almost nobody ever seems to talk about that, though...

Re:Or else?? (2, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536013)

I really don't get why people keep talking about the Metro experience on a desktop; it's neither required, nor important.

But that's just it: It *is* required. You can't turn it off.

Just like the new Office Ribbon interface (1)

purpledinoz (573045) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535013)

But at least Windows allows you to switch back to the old style interface...

Re:Just like the new Office Ribbon interface (5, Funny)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535241)

>But at least Windows allows you to switch back to the old style interface..

Until you hit the Windows key, then Metro slaps your face like a turgid cock in a bad gay porn film.

--
BMO

Only one solution to this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535623)

Ripping my Windows key out.

I can just use F1 as a replacement. Nothing uses F1 for anything productive either, just to annoy you.

Re:Just like the new Office Ribbon interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535779)

So you're familiar with the content of bad gay porn films?

PAUL ALLEN ?? WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535019)

We want Bill Gates III or we want NOBODY !! We don't want no secondratehasbeensoftie no one knows !!

Re:PAUL ALLEN ?? WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535145)

Return your geekcard as it has been rendered null and void, you blithering idiot.

Re:PAUL ALLEN ?? WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS !! (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536069)

what is this "microsoft" that everyone keeps blathering on about?

*goes back to bash prompt* - cos he really hates prompt :)

Re:PAUL ALLEN ?? WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS !! (1)

Kahlandad (1999936) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535969)

Yeah, they should have gotten someone important... like why couldn't they find the guy who came up with the company name Micro-Soft or something? I bet he's pretty important!

Google could upend this whole forced upgrade BS (3, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535021)

Right now, the great majority of people don't have a choice. Corporations need Windows, and when MS says "jump", they fucking JUMP. But they're tired of it.

Google, with a beefed-up ChromeOS, could truly disrupt the status quo - include WINE so that it can run a select few Win32 apps - notably MS Office -, make it manageable remotely, and a lot of desktops will migrate to ChromeOS.

Not easy, but Google is the only who can pull it off. And should - since Win 8 is a walled garden environment, about to shut the others out.

Android not Chrome (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535153)

Android runs excellently as a desktop OS. If you want a sneak peak, take a mouse and one of those OTG cables and plug it into a smart phone, or a tablet. You suddenly have a mouse cursor. Grab a Galaxy Note and then you have multiple windows too. Only it all works with touch, sensors, GPS, always on, the tablet features.

I don't think Corps will give up Windows, certainly not for Chrome. I think that more and more devices will be Android and the focus will shift until it reaches a tipping point.

We went through this with Open Office, the cost of MS Office was just too much, the ribbon nobody liked, a few people switched, then a few more, then management wanted cost savings, and we all switched.

Visual Studio we switched from to Eclipse because we needed to do more development in Java, that was because Android runs Java and server side we always used Java. So it made sense to switch. Personally I don't like Eclipse, it's messy, confused, typical IBM crud, but it is better for Java. No magic decision, no big brave choice, we just needed to use Eclipse more and Visual Studio use is fading away, mainly for maintenance of non-Java code now.

We'll probably keep Windows on the desktop, at least for the next iteration, but the hardware guys say we don't get a new PC this cycle, they'd prefer to spend the budget on tablets and smartphones. So I wonder what a few years will bring in the desktop market too.

Re:Google could upend this whole forced upgrade BS (3, Interesting)

sapphire wyvern (1153271) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535179)

Hmm. Well, you might have a point, but I'm not sure this would be in character for Google. So far Google has offered two types of software upgrades:

  1. 1) Web apps, where you get the upgrade whether you want it or not. You don't usually have to pay for the upgrade, and you don't have to do any management at the client end, but opt-out might not be available. And roll-back is almost never available at your discretion. And there's always the risk that Google gets tired of a niche offering which is unprofitable and/or unstrategic and drops it entirely.
  2. 2) Android, where many users can't get the upgrades even when they want them, due to foot-dragging and cheapness on the part of the device manufacturers and carriers.

I'm not sure that either option is unambiguously better than the MS treadmill (which applies to pretty much all proprietary packaged software, not just MS). Webapps have their advantages (especially from the developer's perspective), but at least with traditional packaged software, you can choose to stay put or even roll back to an earlier version if the new release doesn't meet your needs. And, since all the software runs on a standard PC hardware platform rather than the unique little snowflakes that ARM SoCs seem to be, your access to updates is less dependent on the willingness of your hardware vendor & ISP/telecoms carrier to spend money on software development & QA.

Re:Google could upend this whole forced upgrade BS (1)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535195)

Apple is probably in a much better position to end Microsoft's reign over the desktop, if it decides to release a generic OSX for the white box market. Sure, Apple's Mac sales are going to take an irreversible hit. But if gadget-type computers are the way forward, then Apple could conceivably deliver the coup de grace that would effectively remove a competitor from the picture.

The only problem would be the lack of a native office suite to replace MS Office, but if Apple can afford to release a half-baked home-brewed maps app, it can well afford to hijack and polish an existing second-tier office suite like OpenOffice, which unlike its GPL'd LibreOffice fork is available under a license that would allow Apple to close-source it.

Re:Google could upend this whole forced upgrade BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535437)

Why would Apple need to find a replacement for Microsoft Office? Mac OS X is not Linux: Microsoft *does provide* a version of Office for Mac OS X. That said, Apple already makes its own native office suite (iWorks), and both OpenOffice (and its specifically-for-Mac fork NeoOffice) and LibreOffice are available for Mac OS X. And that's if we discount applications moving away from native to online, like for example Google docs.

Re:Google could upend this whole forced upgrade BS (1)

bWareiWare.co.uk (660144) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536031)

Actually both Microsoft and Google would really prefer corporates run MS Office in Terminal Server or the like. This gives the enterprise much more control and the client doesn't even need an x86 let alone Windows/WINE.

More for Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535071)

Maybe the Linux community will get an influx of people that are fed up.

Re:More for Linux (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535193)

As a Linux fanboy, I have to say you're being too optimistic. I see people running to Mac as another option. It's a matter of education.

Re:More for Linux (1)

Robert Zenz (1680268) | more than 2 years ago | (#41536063)

I agree. People will complain about Windows 8 like there's no tomorrow...guess what they will still buy at the end of the day. Some will migrate to Macs and if we (the Linux users) are lucky we get some really good people on-board (like Valve).

To be honest, I don't want anyone to try to make Linux attract more "average" users...Android is trying to do that...and Android is Linux without all the good stuff.

"peak" is a mountain (2)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535131)

"a public sneak peak".

Illiteracy still rules at Slashdot under new management.

God help the layman user (3)

Rsriram (51832) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535151)

If a geek like Paul Allen finds it confusing, I can imagine the plight of the layman user who upgrades from Windows 7 to 8.

That's not ALL he said :P (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535165)

He also said Windows 8 is innovative: "Windows 8 is innovative and sometimes puzzling,"

AJAX apps (1)

jones_supa (887896) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535181)

As Win8 puts emphasis on the Modern UI apps, I have been pondering something. This summer when I dug into the world of creating graphical applications (Qt, GTK), I found out that the price for all the boilerplate code and abstractions was huge. That made me think that maybe HTML5/JS could actually be the nicer way to create complex UIs. Am I right or am I wrong? I have played with the idea of creating an e-mail application myself and, started to think about the option of actually creating the UI using HTML and all the business logic in C++. That approach seems to work relatively OK for apps like Steam, for example.

Re:AJAX apps (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535199)

I'll validate that.

Re:AJAX apps (1)

Gob Gob (306857) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535237)

When it comes down to it I would use a web app for most things. It scales better and you have a central point of debugging. You also aviod the hell of client OS/ library updates that your app depends on.

Re:AJAX apps (3, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535407)

And enter the new hell where you need to support 12 different browsers across 25 versions. Nothing says love like having to support Safari (Mac users), Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Internet Explorer (6-9?), and so on users these days.

I'll take the fights with the local libraries over this nonsense. Three platforms? Only a few versions to each? I can live with that. It's when you write your app in HTML5, and someone's browser doesn't support it, that you hear it.

Re:AJAX apps (1)

Gob Gob (306857) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535615)

I normally take the middle path and only use generic and robust techniques for the core of an application.

Also if you are selling a viable business application you can say things like IE9+ compatible to avoid such hell. Granted if you are writing for Joe Public then you have to be more mindful of older browsers but compatibility is not that hard (I haven't suggested HTML 5 I'm just suggesting using the appropriate level of language to solve your business case. )

If the client want HTML5 features to work on an old browser then they are already making a choice to either have multiple versions of a web application or have a structure fails gracefully for each one....sounds like divorcing your cousin - things are a bit fucked up to start with

Re:AJAX apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535499)

How do you centrally debug the client side javascript and the server side code...?

Re:AJAX apps (1)

Gob Gob (306857) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535619)

By choosing a level that you are aiming your app at and testing it on said versions / platforms / etc.

The other part is to use plain old HTML instead of AJAX everything and pick your compatibility battles where you have the high ground

Re:AJAX apps (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535255)

As Win8 puts emphasis on the Modern UI apps,

Windows Store Apps, you mean. That's the official name chosen by Microsoft.

Re:AJAX apps (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535527)

I believe that about 2/3 of all stock apps in Win8 (stuff like e.g. Mail) is actually written in HTML5/JS.

So, yes, you can certainly do that. Personally, I still find HTML itself to be a hassle for UI-related stuff, and JS to be a very underwhelming and quirky language even just for glue. And I don't see portability as buying you much, to be honest - if you want it to look good you still need to blend with other apps on any given OS, which means following the corresponding design guidelines - and those are markedly different between Win8 and iOS, for example, or even iOS and Android.

Test (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535187)

Test12

I Had someone switch from WinXP to osx (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535271)

Not wrong its confusing. I have installed the RTM and I was out at a customers today that just got their first iMac and saying how different and confusing it was. I pulled out my laptop and showed them windows 8. Lets just say they felt a little better.

Cost of conversion and retraining. (2)

Robert Frazier (17363) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535315)

One hears the argument that a main reason for not switching to linux from Windows is the cost of retraining, especially when it comes to applications. The argument has often puzzled me. I hear tell that some companies are still using Windows XP because of the cost of conversion to other systems. The cost of conversion to Windows 8 will be pretty high, I would suspect. On the other hand, one of the nifty things about linux is that once you get it a you like, it can stay that way for a long time.

Although the underpinnings have changed over time (e.g., I moved from icewm to awesome wm), the "look and feel" of my "desktop" has only changed very incrementally since about 1998. The applications have got snazzier, of course, but, even there, the basic layout hasn't changed.

Best wishes,
Bob

Hey, Windows 8 . . . it grows on you . . . (3)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535337)

. . . like mold.

"Learn to like" was a poor choice of words, considering the industry prefers phrases like, "Will bedazzle your balls off!" and "This new UI will make you cream in your jeans so often, that you won't need porn any more!" and "Our stuff sucks, use Nokia Maps instead!"

Microsoft is striving to be more like Apple now, with producing hardware, and all. So why don't they also do what Apple did, and bring back the original founder? He's tanned, rested, and ready for a new fight.

Thats what they said (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535339)

Funny. This what respective communities said when they radically change Linux windows managers. KDE, Gnome3, Unity. The UI of any OS changes so people will get used to it. Windows 8 is the way it is because Microsoft is preparing their OS for the touchscreen usage on every device long before any Linux distro is.

Can /. also post some possitive Win8 articles? (2, Insightful)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535363)

I mean there are some people that actually like it and have written so but you wouldn't know it coming here. That is unless we're only interested in hearing bad news.....oh right....

Re:Can /. also post some possitive Win8 articles? (1, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535455)

Nonsense. /. is about what IT people tend to think. If anything, it's refreshing to read what has been so painfully hidden on every other news / discussion site. It's almost like someone threatened them with an immediate removal of ad dollars if they didn't taught the cheeriest of interviews, while their chief technical contributors are fighting for a chance to use the defibrillator machine in the back after they thought about how badly Windows 8 is going to crash their stock portfolios. Put bluntly, the GUI for Windows 8 is designed for 'tards! People who get confused if their computer is doing more than one thing at a time, the kind of people who see overlapping windows and look under their desk for the ones underneath ("They've got to be under here somewhere"). And despite the amazing success of the MS Marketing team to threaten or otherwise shutdown any amount of opposition to the new heir to the MS throne, most of IT and its major pundits are desperately trying to figure out whether Windows 8 is some sort of April Fools joke that Ballmer is playing on the rest of us. If we had to make a choice today between Windows 8 and Vista, we'd choose Vista! You hear that? It's the sound of the tech industry pundits having to choose between being on MS's naughty list for the next 3 years, or losing any credibility they have.

 

Re:Can /. also post some possitive Win8 articles? (4, Insightful)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535963)

No, this site is about what people with an anti-Microsoft bias tend to think. To be honest I don't know why I'm complaining; I might as well ask Fox News to write about something good Obama's done.

As for the rest of your post; I read it, but yet couldn't find any actual information. Yes, I think that about best describes it.

"you'll learn to like it" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535389)

It's called Stockholm syndrome.

No matter how forced, abusive or unwanted, you'll eventually feel a connection.

Sorry Microsoft, I'll pass on this particular PC hostage-taking attempt and wait for better OS. Windows 7 is more than good enough for the next five years.

I actually have come to peace with it (5, Interesting)

Gumbercules!! (1158841) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535401)

I was going to write I actually have come to like it but my fingers borked at it and I realised it's not true. I've been using it for weeks now at work and have come to peace with the UI. I have learned how to work my way around its nuisances without circumventing it entirely (I made a concious effort to work within the Windows 8 framework rather than just avoid it altogether as I figured I need to at least know how to use it).

In short, I hate not having a start menu and I hate note being able to just start typing an application name to find it and run it (I know I can press windows+f in Win 8 but it's no where near as easy).

However, I will say this. Windows 8 and more importantly Server 8 is fucking brilliant -under the hood-. The ability to natively team NICs, ReFS, the *enormous* improvement that is SMB3, better clustering, better management of machines from one location, storage spaces, the improvements in Hyper-V etc leave me stunned - compared to Server 2008 it's like comparing Windows 2000 and Windows 98. The underlying tech is miles in front of the old architecture. It's just such a pity they put this bloody interface on at the same time and made it compulsory because a lot of people are going to skip on Win8 and never notice how damn good the underneath tech actually is, this time around.

Re:I actually have come to peace with it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535605)

Ummm, When in the new "start menu" you can just start typing and it searches.

Re:I actually have come to peace with it (1)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535715)

Just the same way people have been doing since Vista. I don't get how somebody like the GP could both know so much about the OS's features and have actually used it for any length of time, and yet be ignorant of that to the point of actively claiming that it doesn't exist...

What the hell is SMB3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535699)

Super Mario Bros 3?

Re:I actually have come to peace with it (1)

Waccoon (1186667) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535981)

In short, I hate not having a start menu and I hate note being able to just start typing an application name to find it and run it

It's nice that you're yet another server guy that loves to type, but... am I the only one in the universe that sorely misses Quick Launch? If there was one feature of XP that needed to be killed off, that wasn't it.

No typing, no Start Menu, no specific input device needed. Just one selection and that's it. What was so wrong with that?

Proof that they are copying from Linux (4, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535439)

Surely its no coincidence that after Ubuntu switched to Unity Microsoft is releasing a confusing UI that nobody wants and saying "you will like it, really you will"!

tl;dr version - resistance is futile (2)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535517)

You will grow to like it: not a prediction, a directive.

The only time I will use it is: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535643)

When I can rip the entirety of that crapfest of a UI out and replace it with my own without the rest of Windows throwing 50 fits/second.

I done the same in XP, you better believe I will do the damn same in Windows 8 if I even waste my time to get it. (games are the only reason I would get it)
You know, I think I might just wait till Win9. That's the next good one after all.

Or that there um Loonexes or what have you, you know that hacker OS all the big bad evil terrorists use.
Anyone got a Linux dealer? Meet me at the statue tomorrow night.

MS Made Wrong Turn in 2000 (3, Interesting)

BrendaEM (871664) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535713)

Almost everything MS has done to Windows since 2000 has been a mistake.
First the exceptions: 48Bit HD Addressing, 64 Bit Computing, and Cleartype.

Just off of the top of my head, here are a few things that went wrong with XP and W7.
XP's Melted plastic interface.
XP's and forward has different sized windows controls.
Visa/7's has huge memory footprint, too large for a phone, and delayed services.
W7's Computer logs are slow as molasses on my 3.4 2600k, with 16GB ram. It takes a minute to open and check the hardware log. Some logs cannot be cleared by the user through the UI.
The W7 small start button orb is too large for the rest of the bar, but otherwise the bar is good, that's why they will be changing it in W8.
Personal menus were a waste of user time. Menus are faster to use if they don't change.
In W7 many file properties like filesize are more tedious to retrieve.
Vista and W7 take a long time to boot.
Briefcases were a nice idea, but they crashed and were never fixed.
Too much indexing going on in the background. I cannot belief that W7 defaults to reading through every file you have.
Windows update should have never been done in a web browser. What were they training people for?
W7 needlessly removes all but 2 power schemes.
W7 audio is abyssal, with huge lag and delay recording anything with preview.
System restore takes up too much space on large drives. 10% of 3TB is too much. I patch windows to fix it.
Windows 7 updater is so stupid it won't even take the service pack first.
Desktop gadgets failed and died.
The idea that you would separate 32 and 64 bit programs into 2 folders was just plain messy.
Local, Roaming, LocalLow gave too many places to look for stuff.
W7 backpadaled meaning we still have the word "My" in front of everything.
W7 networking is slow out of the box.
In W7 deleting or copying files is slower than XP or 2000.
W7 hangs all the time in odd places, such as when opening "My computer"
They removed Regclean for the sake of registry cleaning companies.
They made the defrag less informative and stopped freespace optimization for the sake of defrag companies.

Anyway, from what I have seen of W8 is W7+W7phone. Windows 8 looks like quite the pigeon-rat. It's too large to be a phone OS and too limited to be a desktop system. I feel bad that I have an expensive CAD program as well as Photoshop, and have only this crap of Apple's walled in garden of weak hardware to choose from. Maybe they will fix Gnome 3, and add the dual pane back into Nautilus. Perhaps they will bring back the minimize button.

I am very disappointed with Microsoft, Apple, Android, Ubuntu, and Gnome, and there is no where else to turn : (
I would think that if Gnome got rid of hot corners, un-dumbed Nautilus, and brought back multi-pane windows, it would be the best of the above.

I am not chattin, texting, and facebooking all day. I write books, whole 110,000 word books, and sometimes, I actually have more than open at once! I edit large photoshops documents, once again, more than one open at once.

The thing of it is: we need to work on these computers!

alternatives (1)

heracross (2706015) | more than 2 years ago | (#41535843)

he talks like we have no other alternatives than windows these days, he is out of touch

Microstiff's Windows 8 = Vista (Cough, Cough) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#41535877)

Microstiff's Upgrade Path ....Windows 8 = Vista (Cough, Cough) = Windows Millennium

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