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NY Times' Broder Responds To Tesla's Elon Musk

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the ding-ding-ding dept.

Transportation 609

DocJohn writes "NY Times' John Broder responded to Elon Musk's blog entry. Accused of driving around a parking lot for no reason, for instance, Broder notes he was simply looking for the poorly marked charging station. Worst of all, much of Broder's behavior can be attributed directly to advice he received from Tesla representatives — something Musk fails to mention."

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Nope (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905575)

The groupthink here already decided Broder is in the pocket of big oil. No explanation will change that.

Re:Nope (-1, Flamebait)

cbhacking (979169) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905591)

Have you read his previous car articles? I'm not going to claim "in the pocket of Big Oil" but he shows a clear bias against electric cars - fillin your own reason for this, if you want to.

Re:Nope (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905647)

Fine. The Jews are holding Broder's undocumented adopted Cuban son hostage in an effort to force him to push their agenda.

Making things up is fun.

Re:Nope (5, Insightful)

AaronLS (1804210) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905701)

Is it so far fetched to imagine that there isn't a conspiracy, and his bias is just part of who he is? Humans are irrational. They form opinions and become entrenched in them. Millions of people are pretty biased in interpreting politics, not because they are part of some mass conspiracy, they are just stubborn and close minded.

Re:Nope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905717)

Is it so far fetched to imagine that there isn't a conspiracy, and his bias is just part of who he is

Congratulations, you understand the point.

Also, the NYT is opposed to having a minimum wage: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905771)

Re:Nope (5, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905753)

What's most likely is that he's just sloppy and got caught fudging the data. It was a Fake, But Accurate moment, a firecracker in the gas tank moment, or, a Zimmerman tape edit moment

Reported fudge, lie, push the truth to fit their preconceived notions. What his was? Who knows. But he tried to make a stupid point and got caught.

Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (-1, Flamebait)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905673)

clearly wants to destroy the planet. Broder probably goes to church too, and to Tea-party rallies, when he isn't shooting assault rifles. No wonder /.'ers hate him.

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (2, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905843)

Anyone who doesn't like electric cars clearly wants to destroy the planet. Broder probably goes to church too, and to Tea-party rallies, when he isn't shooting assault rifles. No wonder /.'ers hate him.

You are an idiot. Unfortunately, there is no law against it.

It is to be expected from someone who parrots Tea Party nonsense rather than exercising some original thought.

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (4, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905927)

BBBZZZZ You both lose. This transcends stupid comments about the Tea Party or saying he's a Lefty. He's a Reporter. He did what Reporters do, distort, mislead, lie. Probably to enhance his reputation and certainly to enhance revenue...look how many clicks NYTs is getting from this.

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (3, Insightful)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906021)

look how many clicks NYTs is getting from this.

And I would imagine Tesla's website is getting a few extra clicks today. What a great game - create a bit of controversy and everyone wins.

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906015)

It is to be expected from someone who parrots Tea Party nonsense rather than exercising some original thought.

Like you? You resort to name calling first, calling Tea Party people idiots because you have no intelligent response. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that deficit spending in a country of over $1 Trillion a year every year was the smart thing to do. And when you get $16 Trillion in debt that the LAST thing that should be mentioned would be to cut spending, which is the ONLY stance I see from all Tea Party people.

No, you are the idiot who has failed to even begin to debate and had to resort to name calling first. I know five year olds that can out debate you.

Yes, I'm an idiot. (0)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906017)

You are an idiot. Unfortunately, there is no law against it.

But, unlike you and the populations of Ohio, Kentucky, New Mexico, and Mississippi, I don't approve of depriving people of basic rights based on inaccurate measures of intelligence.

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (-1, Troll)

sesshomaru (173381) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905925)

Assault rifles are good, they supported by the Second Amendment as a bulwark against government tyranny.

Church is fine, I mean if you believe in that sort of thing. I think it's a little silly, given that clown in the Vatican, but whatever floats yer boat.

Destroying the planet? Oh, I doubt he believes deliberately destroying Tesla will have much impact either way.

However, Tea Party rallies?

  Ok, now you are getting somewhere. No, he probably doesn't attend the rallies, but the Tea Party is just an astro-turf organization funded by Big Oil and specifically the Koch brothers. The Koch Brothers are probably bribing either Broder or the NYT as an organization as well.

As T. Boone Pickens has stated, "The biggest deterrent to an energy plan in America is Koch Industries, They do not want an energy plan for America because they have the cheapest natural gas price they've ever had, and they're in the fertilizer business and they're in the chemical business. So their margins are huge. And they do not want you to have an energy plan, because if you had a plan, then natural gas prices would come up." [businessinsider.com]

With the kind of economic resources the Brothers grim can bring to bear, getting a test scuttled in a major newspaper is nothing. At any rate, someone decided to skew the test, and I doubt it was because Broder has a personal grudge against electric cars or Tesla motors.

As always, follow the money and ask, "who benefits?"

Re:Anyone who doesn't like electric cars (-1, Flamebait)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906079)

I get tired of the Daily Koz zombies coming here and vomiting their Kool Aid all over the place.

Electric cars aren't the only way to reduce (3, Insightful)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906113)

pollution and carbon emissions - and possibly not even the best way. Someone can logically disagree with the concept of electric cars, but still want to reduce emissions. For my money, telecommuting and online education and online shopping could have far more beneficial environmental impacts than building a global army of several hundred million electric cars running on lithium batteries. If people can replace nearly all their daily driving activities with online interactions - then you would be getting somewhere. Of course, we've got quite a ways to go with bandwidth and interactive forms of media before people would start dumping their cars en masse.

Re:Nope (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905713)

Maybe because they're not yet ready for prime time? Seemed to me the biggest problem in the article was the battery charge dropping overnight in the cold weather. Elon Musk forgot to rebut that. Maybe if global warming is real, that won't be a problem. Eventually. Oh, and an hour and a half to refuel at supercharged station? I can't be the only one who sees a problem with that.

Re:Nope (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905815)

That's because electric cars suck ass and no amount of hissy fits by Musk will change the cold hard facts.

Re:Nope (5, Interesting)

DCFusor (1763438) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906161)

I don't think mine sucks. I love it. Chevy Volt. Has a fanboy webpage, not GM sponsored. gmvolt.com. We talk about the others, many of us either wish we had a Tesla - or DO. Funny thing - the least little thing wrong with any of our cars gets discussed. And we here almost nothing bad about Tesla, even though we're not his fan-group. What cold hard facts? People who, unlike this reporter, have some brains, and enough money to buy an electric almost universally love them. I prefer the mixed-hybrid Volt, as it can be an only car even if you do like to take long trips, and don't want to wait for even a super-charger to fill it back up. Guess what Bob Lutz (the guy who influenced GM to make the Volt) says? They'd never have made this great car if Elon hadn't prodded them in the ass with his.

Tesla kept logs. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905703)

They know exactly what Broder did with the car. It's like your son telling you he didn't visit that porn site when his laptop's IP address is logged by your router as having done so. Seriously, the guy didn't understand the technology he was fucking around with and his lack of credibility is about to be exposed in a big way.

Re:Tesla kept logs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905751)

Ok. How exactly does that mean he's in the pocket of big oil?

Re:Tesla kept logs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905777)

So, why won't they release the actual logs, but instead gives us unclear charts with interpretations?

Learn to read a chart. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905825)

Or see icebike's comment: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3462591&cid=42905789

Either way is fine by me.

Re:Tesla kept logs. (1)

Daemonik (171801) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905903)

Because 99.99999% of the world who are not Tesla engineers won't have a fracking clue what the data means, so in the interest if making their explanation understandable they interpreted the data for us.

Re:Tesla kept logs. (0)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906035)

It's really not that hard to read a speed vs time and a charge vs time graph.

Re:Tesla kept logs. (4, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906129)

Because "logs" are an endless series of JPG files depicting a graph of speed vs time and a charge vs time.

Go sit in the corner, facing the wall.

Re:Tesla kept logs. (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905789)

They know exactly what Broder did with the car. It's like your son telling you he didn't visit that porn site when his laptop's IP address is logged by your router as having done so. Seriously, the guy didn't understand the technology he was fucking around with and his lack of credibility is about to be exposed in a big way.

Exactly.
Tesla reps told him to drive 80?
Tesla told him to undercharge even though the range indicator said he wouldn't make it. Not once, but THREE times?
Tesla told him to lie about limping along at 45, even tho the log shows he never drove at 45?

Caught in a latent lie he tries to blame others. But mom, dad said I could....

Re:Tesla kept logs. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905967)

Caught in a latent lie...

Well... He is a closet homosexual, so the latent lie business checks...

Re:Tesla kept logs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906153)

B-b-but the anti-copyright shills keep telling us an IP address doesn't point to a person?

Re:Nope (-1, Flamebait)

elrous0 (869638) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905867)

I understand why you're posting AC. Sadly, ./ has a fawning love of Tesla and Musk that anyone daring to offer even the mildest criticism will end up with their karma in the dirt. It used to be the same around here with Apple and Jobs.

Re:Nope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905889)

Thanks. Knowing I'm not the only one who feels this way might keep my misanthropy in check for another beer or two.

Re:Nope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906103)

It used to be the same around here with Apple and Jobs.

It has *NEVER* been the way of Slashdot that praising Apple & Jobs brings Karma. Slashdot has always been filled with Apple-haters and that hasn't changed with time.

In many ways, Slashdot is like the elderly racist relative that won't change their views despite being out of touch with the rest of society.

Re:Nope (1)

cffrost (885375) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906121)

I understand why you're posting AC. Sadly, ./ has a fawning love of Tesla and Musk that anyone daring to offer even the mildest criticism will end up with their karma in the dirt. It used to be the same around here with Apple and Jobs.

Much of the American public loves the 1%, and has no reservations about throwing themselves under a bus to protect the interests and reputation of the latter.

The reporter does not like electric vehicles (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905611)

There is another reporter duplicating this exact run.
Open the window and turn up the heater. Drive in circles in a parking lot.
Use the advise from Tesla motors in an odd way to maximize drain.
I await the other reporters story not this con job.

Re:The reporter does not like electric vehicles (-1, Redundant)

siddesu (698447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905767)

And the car salesman doesn't like his half-baked vehicle to be reviewed negatively. So? Anyone who's looking will see three things: Musk has not published data, but charts and accusations, the released charts largely corroborate the original report and definitely do not paint the grave picture the car salesman is pitching; and the advice the reporter got from Tesla staff was ridiculous and contributed more to the problems than his driving style or heater usage.

Both the original report and the rebuttal were biased, but Musk's accusations are unjustified and his ramblings are not very convincing.

I'll wait for the data before I make up my mind though, although I doubt they will be released.

You clearly didn't review the charts given. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905817)

Like Broder, I bet you made up your mind before even glancing at them. I mean good God man, what reason do you have to call the vehicle half baked? Fuck you.

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (-1, Troll)

siddesu (698447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905873)

You can bet what you want, but I read the original article, the rebuttal and the rebuttal of the rebuttal and I see no basis for Musk's accusations, the charts support the reporter's story better than Musk's. There is no indication of lying, of large detours, of the reporter trying to "run down" the battery, etc. For all intensive purposes the conclusions of the original report -- that the car performs poorly in cold weather, that it takes longer to fill up and that much more careful planning is needed driving it -- stand.

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (5, Funny)

mooingyak (720677) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905977)

For all intensive purposes

I try not to be a grammar Nazi, but man you even italicized it.

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (-1, Redundant)

siddesu (698447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905991)

Yeah. Can you guess why?

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (2)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906031)

Let me attempt to clear this up.

Those words you italicized? They don't mean what you think they do.

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906049)

Yeah. Can you guess why?

Illiteracy, obviously.

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (3, Insightful)

notsoanonymouscoward (102492) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906159)

"the conclusions of the original report -- that the car performs poorly in cold weather, that it takes longer to fill up and that much more careful planning is needed driving it -- stand."

Why the need to lie about it then?

Re:You clearly didn't review the charts given. (4, Insightful)

EvanED (569694) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906061)

So to start, I am totally down with the idea of electric cars; I think that the utility of them around town would outweigh for many people the range problems for longer trips*. I personally try to drive relatively little; I've put an average of well under 5,000 mi/year on my car. I probably shouldn't say this, but Tesla is the answer to "what's your dream car?" security question on some website. Believe me when I say I don't have a bias against electric cars.

(* There was some discussion about this in the previous thread which I almost participated in, but didn't. Ballpark figures for the Tesla seem to be an hour of charge for about every three hours of driving. Personally, this is enough of an increase in stopping time compared to what I currently do on long trips that I really wouldn't want to do a long trip in one.)

But... I've read Musk's comments and both responses on the NY Times blog (ironically I haven't actually read the original article), and to be honest I didn't really find Musk's blog post all that convincing. And this is after a bit of me wanting to see the NY Times review get nailed to the wall.

For instance, Musk claims that the logs show that the heat was turned up when the reporter said he turned it down. But within 20 minutes of the point at which Musk says proves his point, the temperature was turned down -- dramatically. The NY Times article doesn't really give a precise "I turned down the heat at milepost 182"; that's a mileage that Musk seems to have derived from the following quote from the original article:

As I crossed into New Jersey some 15 miles later, I noticed that the estimated range was falling faster than miles were accumulating. At 68 miles since recharging, the range had dropped by 85 miles, and a little mental math told me that reaching Milford would be a stretch. I began following Teslaâ(TM)s range-maximization guidelines, which meant dispensing with such battery-draining amenities as warming the cabin.

But Musk doesn't say how he arrived at that number in his blog post; he just asserts that's the point at which the reviewer says. IMO it's not too much of a stretch to think that the above review is imprecise enough that skirting that arrow over just 20 miles to where the temperature was lowered could be what actually happened.

This point in particular sits very poorly with me on Musk's side; I really feel like he was looking for faults with the data hard enough that he was probably prone to find ones that weren't actually there.

Note that I'm not by any means absolving Broder. I think that this story still has a bit more to play out until it reaches its resolution (if it ever does, without phone calls). But I really do feel like the "oh the NY Times got served!" people are really jumping to conclusions, even given Musk's data. I've been burned too many times my assuming things when they looked so clear before.

Re:The reporter does not like electric vehicles (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906005)

Re:The reporter does not like electric vehicles (4, Insightful)

siddesu (698447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906045)

But there is no real information in this entry. The rebuttal and the rebuttal thereof are more interesting. Reader comments I've seen are very much biased in favor of Mr. Musk, but most of them are based on the logic "he released data, therefore he is right" rather than a look at what actually was released and what it means.

Overall, this is a skirmish about nothing, except that it is very interesting to observe how the public reacts.

Re:The reporter does not like electric vehicles (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906173)

But there is no real information in this entry. Yet. The article expressly mentions that there's more to come. It does include this line:

I reject Mr. Musk's central contention that Mr. Broder's Sunday piece was faked in order to sabotage the Model S or the electric-car industry.

Margaret Sullivan has proven herself to be a very independent voice; I expect that'll be true here as well.

A couple of points (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905613)

A charging station he had previously been to...which makes his claim seem pretty suspect to me.

Also, Musk did say this: "The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense."

That was the most damning accusation, and on that note, Musk refutes the claim that he was told by Tesla employees to act as he did.

Re:A couple of points (3, Insightful)

number11 (129686) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906041)

Musk refutes the claim that he was told by Tesla employees to act as he did.

What, you figure Musk was there when they talked to him? No, he called the employees and asked them what they said. You figure they're going to admit screwing up to the big boss who's clearly pissed off? Or, Musk may just be claiming the advice was different, without even checking. I don't know, you don't know, and (unless Musk was recording the calls) nobody knows for sure what was said.

Re:A couple of points (5, Informative)

EvanED (569694) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906111)

A charging station he had previously been to...which makes his claim seem pretty suspect to me.

When? On the way up?

Not true: there are separate service plazas on each side of the highway. Furthermore, if you look at Google's "satellite" photo [google.com] , they are not symmetric -- the parking lot is a completely different layout on the two sides, and the Tesla charging station (marked on the Google image) is in a different location.

Musk (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905619)

Musk's media relations are terrible.

Re:Musk (-1)

joe_frisch (1366229) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905725)

Stunningly bad. The correct response was to say that the Tesla support people had given bad advice, but that the car was OK, and that the support staff were being retrained. It may even have been true - I've had enough terrible advice from support people at other companies that it wouldn't surprise me if the Tesla support were bad as well.

Even if the support wasn't at fault, claiming they were would clear the car's reputation and provide the company a way to "fix" the problem through additional training.

Claiming that a reporter for a major newspaper is blatantly lying is absolutely not the right way to go about this. Many readers will think of the reporter as a "customer", and telling the customer that they are wrong is rarely a good approach, especially when dealing with high end luxury goods.

If I had Tesla stock I'd be tempted to sell, not because the car is bad, but because their PR is so terrible that I fear for their future.

Re:Musk (4, Insightful)

Daemonik (171801) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905937)

You must be unaware of the fact that there are very clear instances where bending over for a customer is the worst thing a company can do. This "customer" is in the wrong, regardless if Musk has the personality of a rabid wolverine on PMS.

Re:Musk (5, Insightful)

tipo159 (1151047) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906019)

How is this "Insightful"? Given the low regard that the general public have for reporters, why would they regard the reporter as a customer like them?

Personally, I don't think reporters get called enough on their BS. I am not a big Elon Musk fan (he came across like a baby after the "Top Gear" situation), but his response in this situation raised my opinion of him a couple of notches.

Anyway, in the past, I have observed a strong bias against particular cars in the Automobiles section in the NY Times. There are occasionally very good automotive-related articles there, but, for the most part, I take everything that I read in that section with a grain of salt. Given that NYC is one of the most car-unfriendly cities in the US, I have always wondered why the NY Times even has an Automobiles section.

Re:Musk (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906067)

Speaking as a person who provides support professionally...

Fuck you, fuck the horse you road in on, fuck your mother, your father, your sister, and your dog.

If Musk's people gave the right advice, and he's positive they did, major props to him for standing behind them. I wish more companies out there would be willing to tell off the "customers" who purposely act the fool.

How you treat those above you shows nothing. How you treat those "below" you shows everything.

And in this corner... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905661)

Can we get these 2 in a cage fight?

Who'll take odds?

An old rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905665)

Never get into a pissing contest with people who buy ink by the barrel.

Unless you like seeing your name in the paper. (1, Funny)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905685)

Like Elon Musk.

Logs don't Lie Bitch (1, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905667)

Admit it, you were caught being a New York Times reporter.

Pack it in, because logs don't lie.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905687)

More... I cannot account for the discrepancy, nor for a later stretch in Connecticut where I recall driving about 45 m.p.h.

Logs don't lie...BITCH!

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905781)

So... when the RIAA's lawyers produce server logs in court that they say clearly prove a defendant repeatedly broke the law at the expense of their member corporations, you're going to be post here saying

Logs don't lie...BITCH!

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905839)

Logs don't lie no matter who's using them. You have a problem with logs?

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906089)

Here's the fourth graphic in Musk's blog [teslamotors.com] attacking Broder, based on one of those logs that "don't like, BITCH!".

They don't huh. Go back and read the text on that graphic. Notice anything funny? Musk is accusing Broder of trying to drain the battery on the expensive sports car by driving around a large rest stop (the one with the Tesla recharging station) for an awesome amount of time (5 minutes) through a staggering range of 0.6 miles.

Think about it. If Broder had been cynically trying to sabotage his trip and stall out the Tesla, and didn't know about the monitoring (which evidently he didn't) do you think he would drive in circles for five minutes around that rest stop? No, he would get off the fucking highway and go off riding around towns, or Manhattan (which Musk claims Broder did, but can't back up).

Mr. Elon Musk, you gotta be fucking kidding. That 0.6 miles driving around that service center parking lot is one of your main "proofs" of sabotage?

Musk is a showman, in the tradition of P.T. Barnum and Donald Trump. When these people say something and put their personalities behind it, lots of people believe them. But, you gotta slow down and look at the details. The details lie.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906095)

Logs dont lie but they can be used in a way to twist the truth. Remember statistics are like mini-skirts, they dont show everything!

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906055)

An IP, not a defendant.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905797)

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905755)

Note that almost all the reporter's "explanations" are based on phone calls. Since the logs are gonna fry me, let's see what I can lie about that they can't prove... of course! I can say I was told anything in phone calls and there is no way they can catch me lying.

God I hope Tesla was recording the calls, and can prove this SOB is a lying dirtbag.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905791)

Spot on.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (2)

NothingMore (943591) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905803)

They do not. However there have now been questions raised as to the analysis by Musk by other papers. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/elon-musks-data-doesnt-back-his-claims-new-york-times-fakery/62149/ [theatlanticwire.com]

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (3, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905851)

Just a bunch of Journalist Homers circling the wagons to protect Broder.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905863)

Or, you can look at it another way, It's just the same kind of "rebuttal" Broder published. Filled with half assed explanations and caveats.

Overnight rated range remaining (4, Interesting)

pikine (771084) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905835)

The log does show that rated range remaining dropped at the 400 mile mark very sharply. I wonder what happened. Did Broder just park the car and leave it on overnight? The battery charge did drain quite a bit without making any distance. Since the log's x-axis is distance based, it doesn't show how fast the battery charge is used up while the car is not moving.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905865)

Admit it, you were caught being a New York Times reporter.

Pack it in, because logs don't lie.

Yea and they back up exactly what he said in the article.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906033)

Admit it, you were caught being a New York Times reporter.

Pack it in, because logs don't lie.

Can you provide a link to the raw logs?

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906097)

Yeah...I'll get right on that. Elon is my buddy and he'll be happy to give a link for me to post taking you directly to the log results.

Did your mother drop you on your head recently?

Why don't you man up and accuse him of lying instead of pissing around and suggesting that other people prove he's right.

Re:Logs don't Lie Bitch (3, Insightful)

Jeremi (14640) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906115)

Pack it in, because logs don't lie.

Perhaps not, but logs can be altered.

I'm not saying they were in this case, but just saying "logs don't lie" seems a bit naive when the only log data we have to go on are those provided by Tesla, hardly a disinterested party.

come on... (5, Interesting)

apcullen (2504324) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905727)

They clocked the speed he was driving at because the tires were a different size? There's some mysterious huge downhill on the new jersey turnpike that caused him to hit 80 despite setting his cruise control to 54? Really? Is that the best he can come up with?

The model S may or may not be a good car. It sure seems like it's a pain to charge up on long trips. But this guy Broder sounds like he's full of it.

Re:come on... (1)

sycodon (149926) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905765)

I'm surprised he didn't try to say they were measuring kilometers per hours.

The speed difference between them is huge... (3, Insightful)

gQuigs (913879) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905733)

Was there a GPS logging that could confirm one story or the other? 54 mph vs 60 is quite a big difference on this long of a journey...

Re:The speed difference between them is huge... (4, Insightful)

adisakp (705706) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905943)

Was there a GPS logging that could confirm one story or the other? 54 mph vs 60 is quite a big difference on this long of a journey...

The data logging showed speeds as high as 81 MPH. That's hardly limping along at 45 and it's certainly not a "difference in wheel sizes" as the reporter claims. Plus he drove .6 miles in circles mostly at speeds between 10-15 MP while supposed "looking for a charging station". If you didn't find it on your first time circling the small 100 car lot, why wouldn't you just slow down to look for it rather than going in circles around the lot 30-40 times at a speed too fast to carefully look?

Re:The speed difference between them is huge... (3, Funny)

number11 (129686) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906125)

Plus he drove .6 miles in circles mostly at speeds between 10-15 MP while supposed "looking for a charging station". If you didn't find it on your first time circling the small 100 car lot, why wouldn't you just slow down to look for it rather than going in circles around the lot 30-40 times at a speed too fast to carefully look?

I expect that you've identified the problem. He ran out of juice because he drove the car 0.6 miles further than they'd planned for.

Re:The speed difference between them is huge... (2)

Forever Wondering (2506940) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905979)

Was there a GPS logging that could confirm one story or the other? 54 mph vs 60 is quite a big difference on this long of a journey...

I don't know for sure, but it seems like there was. When Broder claims he was driving around [nearby streets, presumably] looking for the [in his words] poorly marked charging station, Tesla is saying that he was driving around in a parking lot. The only way Tesla could know the difference would be GPS data. This stands to reason because as remarked elsewhere, when an electric car is low on charge, it alerts you verbally, and asks if it can "lay in a course" [Star Trek term :-)] to the nearest charging station. This strongly implies GPS. Plus, for such a high end car, a built in [GPS] navigation system is one of the expected extras.

Re:The speed difference between them is huge... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905997)

Not only in the car, but there's GPS logging on the reporter's phone.

It'll be interesting to see how they match up.

Re:The speed difference between them is huge... (1)

complete loony (663508) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906081)

The log should be a recording of the value that was displayed on the speedometer. So one of them is clearly misrepresenting the truth.

Believe it or not! (4, Insightful)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905793)

He's claiming Tesla representatives instructed him to purposefully drive past the reported range then lie about it? That does not sound credible.

Dead? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905801)

However Nikola Tesla is dead since long ago?

Too concise of a summary (0)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about a year and a half ago | (#42905879)

Who is Broder, and who is Elon Musk, and why would some guy publicly accuse another of driving in a parking lot?
I guess it is nice to be informed of something, but as a reader who didn't follow the other, very recent piece of news, I would have liked a few more words or sentences to give me context. Including what function does Mr Elon Musk occupy in the company.

This isn't Twitter, and we don't pay more for the Internet if we get a more complete summary, do we?

Re:Too concise of a summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905995)

You must be new here

Re:Too concise of a summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906105)

Summary is a followup to a previous story that was early in this day. You are reading Slashdot. You know of Google or Yahoo, or maybe Bing. Use them. But the biggest thing of all is the related links section right below the summary gives you the previous story. If this story had been from a different week or month, then sure, you could be ignorant of what is going on. But again, use a search engine and look it up.

Also, what is this Twitter you are talking about?

Reporters lie for ratings (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905895)

Ever heard of Fox News??? It's all about making some crazy outrageous claims that will entertain people and sell advertising. Hell, even Food Reviewers are making outrageous lies these days. [chicagomag.com]

What's really funny here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905931)

Is the number of you who are siding with a (to all reports) totally psychotic billionaire vs. a schlubby clock-punching "journalist" - at best a bagman, if he's not just doin' his job. Are you losers serious? Even if Broder is schilling for a corporation who is on the side of the oil companies - who do you think is going to win? Elon Musk can buy the Times and then some. Musk will realize that to sell cars he'll need make peace with the oil companies and their interests, produce a Tesla that uses - guess what? - gas. And Broder will go onto the next story, dutifully filing his reports.

Re:What's really funny here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906011)

"Even if Broder is schilling for a corporation..."

Yeah - he's probably in the bag for Old Spice.

"...something Musk fails to mention." (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42905955)

Something that Broder also failed to mention in his original article. In my opinion, if you are claiming to review A CAR, and THE CAR says it won't reach your destination, and someone one the phone says go anyway, and you go, and it fails to reach the destination, implying there's something wrong with the car by saying it should have but didn't is either being deliberately misleading or unforgivably stupid. There's no third option.

Clearly, tech support for computers with drivetrains is as stellar as tech support for computers in general, but if Broder is going to blame everything on bad advice, even if every single thing he says is true, it destroys his credibility as a technology reviewer of any kind. That would be no different than doing a review of an operating system and saying "it kept losing all my settings" when in fact what was happening was some tech support person kept telling you to reinstall it from scratch. That's a pretty important thing to mention explicitly. The Tesla didn't just "fail" by Broder's own words it failed because he was told to do dumb things and actually did those dumb things *against the advise of the car itself*.

And that's the best case scenario assuming I take it as a given every single factual statement made by Broder about the test drive is accurate. That doesn't account for why CNN's route replication appears to have been dramatically different.

Re:"...something Musk fails to mention." (4, Insightful)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906075)

The third option is the Broder is lying and didn't get that advice. Seems kind of obvious. And in keeping with the rest of the facts.

Re:"...something Musk fails to mention." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906165)

That's a different "if" not a third option of that "if." But it also falls within the category of being deliberately misleading.

The point though is that if he's lying, that's bad. But if he's telling the truth, that doesn't seem to be significantly better.

Isn't it cute? (1)

chooks (71012) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906053)

Nothing like a lover's quarrel on Valentine's day...

Does Broder not know how to fill'er up????? (3, Insightful)

Forever Wondering (2506940) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906073)

According to the Tesla data, Broder's charge percentages after leaving a charging station were 90%, 72%, and 28%. While 90% may be reasonable, and 3/4 of a tank a bit dicey, who in their right mind only fills up to just over 1/4 of a tank? If he were refueling a gasoline powered car in this manner, he'd be deemed a fool.

1 Gallon Kerosene + 1 Gallon Gasoline (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42906087)

Steps:
1) find the apartment of John Broder, its easy, snicker snicker
2) apply kerosene
3) apply gasoline
4) strike match.

Best to do ops as this around 2 am.

Before the op, apply duct tape to door and windows to prevent escape.

Oh yea sounds legit (0)

cmay (687134) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906151)

> I was told that moderate-speed driving would “restore” the battery power lost overnight
Oh yea makes perfect sense.

How do I know if Musk is truthful about the logs? (2, Interesting)

hrvatska (790627) | about a year and a half ago | (#42906171)

Is there anyone outside of Tesla that can independently verify that the logs actually recorded what Musk says they recorded? Why is there an automatic assumption by some that what Musk is publishing is what the logs actually recorded? How would we know if Musk is falsifying what's in the logs?
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