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Windows 8 Killing PC Sales

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the you're-not-helping dept.

Windows 1010

yl-roller writes "IDC says Windows 8 is partly to blame for PC sales suffering the largest percentage drop ever. 'As if that news wasn't' troubling enough, it appears that a pivotal makeover of Microsoft's ubiquitous Windows operating system seems to have done more harm than good since the software was released last October.' According to a ZDNet article, IDC originally expected a drop, but only half the size."

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My theory (5, Insightful)

dugancent (2616577) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418469)

There hasn't been a damn thing in the last several years worth upgrading for. Gamers and developers aside, there has been nothing at all interesting happening in the PC world.

I'm still on a 2.0ghz C2D laptop and had no intention of upgrading anytime soon.

Re:My theory (5, Insightful)

trparky (846769) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418493)

Only thing I would suggest as an upgrade to that computer is an SSD. But that's about it. It really is amazing what an SSD can do to an older computer.

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418563)

Only thing I would suggest as an upgrade to that computer is an SSD. But that's about it. It really is amazing what an SSD can do to an older computer.

It depends on the spinning disk I suppose. I upgraded from striped 15K RPM SCSI drives. The SSD was noticeably faster, but not anything on the scale I was hearing.

Re:My theory (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418639)

Try upgrading to striped SSDs then, if you want closer to an apple to apples comparison...

Re:My theory (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418735)

Try upgrading to striped SSDs then, if you want closer to an apple to apples comparison...

They are. Like I said, it's faster, but mind blowingly so like most people told me.

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418805)

I upgraded my MacBook Pro from 4 to 8GB RAM and from a 500GB HDD to a 128SSD and it is like a new comp. It boots in 7seconds rather than 40 seconds. The SSD is what made it all the new.
I then built two desktops with the same SSD drive. All the same parts except one AMD and the other Intel. They are wicked fast because of SSD.
I used to tell folks that adding RAM would be their best speed upgrade, but now I tell them that an SSD is the best speed upgrade.

Re:My theory (4, Insightful)

csumpi (2258986) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418705)

You had 15k rpm scsi striped drives in a laptop? Even if you did, you should have noticed these benefits:

- much faster random access
- improved battery life
- zero noise
- no mechanical failure

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418789)

You had 15k rpm scsi striped drives in a laptop? Even if you did, you should have noticed these benefits: - much faster random access - improved battery life - zero noise - no mechanical failure

No, not in a laptop. Video editing is mostly why I like having the speed. So there's not a lot of random access. I'm working with 12 GB files. Noise is definitely better. Not that I found them too loud. I used to have some Micropolis Tomahawk drives years ago. Those sounded like jet engines spinning up. You still have flash wear out on SSD drives. Most spinning disks can last a very long time too. I have a few older drives that have been spinning for close to 15 years now.

Re:My theory (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418863)

I had a dual PII 333mhz server I bought second hand years back with 7 4.3 gigabyte 10K SCSI drives in it. When I started it up it sounded like a C-5 on takeoff. Disk access was really quick but damn the noise.

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418645)

I was waiting for laptops with a decent screen resolution.

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418533)

The things that are good about windows 8 (modularity of features and some options for speedy lightweight installs, for example) are not at all apparent to most end users.

The things that are absolute fails about windows 8 are the things that are completely in your face for most users.

Features from the first group won't successfully justify the antifeatures in the second group.

All M$ has to do is fix their UI and sales will go back up.

Re: My theory (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418603)

They will not go back up. People don't want, or need, a new computer.

Re: My theory (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418627)

Speaking of fixing things, whenever you attempt to type a capital S it turns into a dollar sign.

It could be the basementdweller virus. You should run a scan.

Re: My theory (1, Funny)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418797)

whenever you attempt to type a capital S it turns into a dollar sign

Have you no respect for tradition?

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

wisty (1335733) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418677)

MIcrosoft doesn't want to fix their UI. They want to train users in their touch UI.

The tablet space is an attractive market, and Microsoft wants to use their power on the desktop to win the tablet war.

This won't win them any friends in corporate IT, but corporate IT is so tied to Microsoft that they could release the next version with MS Bob as the interface, and businesses would still be forced to buy it when they upgrade. The only reason corporate IT is slow to upgrade now is that XP (and now Windows 7) is good enough, and corporate upgrade cycles are slow. Businesses skipped Vista, and went with 7. They'll skip 8 no matter what. When they are ready to upgrade again, Microsoft can just release a "Pro" version which enables a "classic" interface, and leave regular consumers with an interface that trains them to use MS tablets.

Re:My theory (4, Informative)

bmo (77928) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418877)

The only reason corporate IT is slow to upgrade now is that XP (and now Windows 7) is good enough,

Corporate IT is happy with ThinPC, aka Windows Embedded Standard. It's a de-goobered 7. It's not de-goobered enough in my estimation, but that's a matter of taste, I guess. ThinPC SP1 gives you a desktop that users don't have to re-learn, is more amenable to policies from hell (you can even choose not to install IE, for example) and all applications behave as if you have 7. It will probably also have a longer support lifetime than 7.

What I consider de-goobered enough: Windows FLP. I would *love* to see a ThinPC version of Windows trimmed back as far as FLP is. Stick FLP in a VM and Thin PC in a VM, and compare speeds. You'll see what I mean.

--
BMO

Re:My theory (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418841)

The things that are good about windows 8 (modularity of features and some options for speedy lightweight installs, for example) are not at all apparent to most end users.

The things that are absolute fails about windows 8 are the things that are completely in your face for most users.

Features from the first group won't successfully justify the antifeatures in the second group.

All M$ has to do is fix their UI and sales will go back up.

Well, there are two large factors in the decline of Win 8 sales. One being people dislike Windows 8, as too different. The other thing is people aren't all buying a PC to replace their old PC. Mac sales are up as are tablets and smart phones. People who only needed their PC to keep in touch or exchange photos no longer need a PC, so they aren't going to buy one.

Re:My theory (1)

TooTechy (191509) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418597)

Agreed. If you don't play 3D games then an old PC is just fine. Why buy a new one?

Re:My theory (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418741)

I agree as well, when not playing games I cant tell the difference between my 2.5ghz i5 work laptop, my amd x2 electronics bench computer from 2008, and my 4ghz quad core FX ... I can feel it a little in my wifes 3770K, but just a little

gaming, yea huge freaking differences

Re:My theory (1)

grantspassalan (2531078) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418695)

Laptops and desktops are plenty good enough for what most users bought computers for. Even though the old computers still work, most people wanting or needing a new computer will now get themselves a tablet. Almost everybody also has a phone in their pocket. These modern phones are an ultraportable computer that allows many people to do the things they used to do on their laptops or desktop systems. Creative people will still always use computers with large screens, expansive memory and storage, but most people are consumers of other people's creativity. An interesting statistic would be to learn how many people there are, for whom their phone or tablet is the only computing device they own.

Re:My theory (5, Insightful)

Hadlock (143607) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418707)

Starting abou 2009-2010 the lowest end computer could play Youtube/Facebook/Netflix out of the box without any upgrades. Those are the killer apps of the home PC experience... and also things that a $150 android Tablet excells at. Your kid can still type up their book report on the old family Pentium 4 from 2002, but a $150 tablet outclasses it in every other way in both features, connectivity and speed for consumer use.
 
PCs hit a price floor at around $350 due to the size and cost to ship, along with the various modular components. The $80 tablet (not sale price, the MSRP price) is a thing now, in five years the $50 tablet will exist, and people will look at you like you're crazy if you buy a $150 tablet. Google is about to announce their new $149 Nexus 7.

Re:My theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418743)

Yes yes yes

The only reason to upgrade is to run the virus protection software faster - and that is really a drive throughput issue

Re:My theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418765)

This is true. As a gamer/developer I also have my share of low-end computers and laptops still laying around. Even after 8-years, I still use them from time to time because for general purposes, they're as fast as a modern PCs if you use it for net, and word processors. Granted they are using windows xp but that doesn't really matter. Although there's this one hard drive that is about to pop because it's making the most hilarious sounds while "thinking".

Re:My theory (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418787)

There hasn't been a damn thing in the last several years worth upgrading for. Gamers and developers aside, there has been nothing at all interesting happening in the PC world.

I'm still on a 2.0ghz C2D laptop and had no intention of upgrading anytime soon.

Except memory.

I settled on Win 7 Pro so I could cram 32GB of RAM onto my mother board. Life with Photoshop and some other hungry apps is quite a lot easier when you aren't paging like a paging fiend on national paging day.

As for the interface, I wanted to stick with familiar, not revolutionary. Win 8 reviews worried me. Generally Windows releases have departed from the previous one with less emphasis on keeping the system familiar. First things I do is turn off the Mac imitation peek, which I find extremely irritating. Gone also is the Aero/Glass look for the Classic look. I bought this to do work on, not bother me and try to look futuristic.

Re:My theory (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418853)

Shit, I'm a gamer and I've spent on average a hundred bucks on upgrades a year for probably the last decade. With the exception of the occasional Cryengine game, there's been very little released in the last several years that demands (or even just begs) for regular, massive upgrades.

Re:My theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418885)

Games are actually doing a better job of scaling, too, meaning it's less necessary to upgrade ever 2 years unless you simply must play every game on maximum settings.

Hmmmm (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418497)

Wasn't Microsoft blaming the actual manufacturers for low sales at the start? Are they aware that it's actually their own fault yet?

Re: Hmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418633)

You actually believe people care enough about Windows 8 to not buy a new machine? Just more slashdot FUD.

Re: Hmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418811)

You've misinterpreted. I think. Could you elaborate what you mean please?

Apple sales as well (5, Interesting)

blarkon (1712194) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418505)

According to the original data, Apple sales dropped 7.5% as well. 's good to see that Windows 8 is killing Apple as well!

Re:Apple sales as well (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418631)

Unfortunately, I just had to turn in the Macbook that work bought me. The crippled Outlook available for MacOs doesn't work well, the VMware ESX client only runs in virtualiization under Windows, and the games don't run on it, and the development stack fo the Linux servers may run on it, but only badly. Too bad: it's nice hardware, but doesn't properly run a single application that I care about better than Windows *or* Linux except in virtualization, and the virtualization stack screws up all the keystroke optimizations I like.

Re:Apple sales as well (3, Informative)

larry bagina (561269) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418675)

Apple's Q1 is November/October/December (think different, I guess). Mac sales were down due to supply constraints on the new iMac (released November 30th). Q2 numbers will be announced later this month.

Re: Apple sales as well (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418697)

You might want to look a bit closer. The IDC report said that apple sales went up 7.5%

Re:Apple sales as well (1)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418725)

According to the original data, Apple sales dropped 7.5% as well. 's good to see that Windows 8 is killing Apple as well!

Gartner, however, says they are even (while agreeing that Windows sales are down.)

Too bad for MS (5, Insightful)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418509)

Back in the Windows ME days there were no viable options for business to go to, except for NT which many were already using. They can't afford a colossal mistake every other OS release anymore. At this rate, they'd be better off keeping Windows 7 for twelve years, or however long XP went without a replacement. At least then they wouldn't be losing market share.

Re:Too bad for MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418565)

At that time I was the network admin for a medium sized company. Most of the clients continued to use Windows 98, some on Windows 2000, two on Mac OS 9 and myself on BeOS. All of the servers were either Windows NT 4 or Linux.

Why do companies make the same mistake (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418511)

Over and over again? It's the same as what IBM did with the PS/2 MicroChannel in the '80s and Intel with Itanium in the early 2000's.

Just because you have majority market share doesn't mean you can treat your customer base like a cattle drive. They have to be coaxed, not ordered to move. Show them the mountaintop, but also show them how they can migrate with minimal disruption to their applications, data and working style.

Re: Why do companies make the same mistake (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418731)

Nothing has really changed in windows 8.

  If you go to the desktop it is largely the same. I have always hated windows 7's default grouping behavior as well as the "pinning". It's annoying and counterintuitive to the past decade and a half of computing. Any user on win 7 should have no problem with 8.

Oh, you're complaining about Metro. Want to know the secret to Metro? Don't fucking click it. We've had a windows key since the 90's and the only use it had was maybe win m, minimize all windows. (The "I totally wasn't looking at porn" keyboard maneuver), and windows 8 gives that windows key a lot of power. You can switch windows, search, launch different menus. Hop between metro and the desktop.

Personally, all this whining about the loss of a start menu is because you kids grew up in a point and click world.

Get windows 8, throw your mouse out the window and work that keyboard like a badass. It's a UI change. Man the hell up, people.

Re:Why do companies make the same mistake (3, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418865)

"They have to be coaxed, not ordered to move. Show them the mountaintop"
So true.
The Windows "8" team needs to set aside their inner city, dorm room 620p -1080p console for 5 to 10 year loving colleagues and sell "this" years and "next" years improvements - every year.
Intel has amazing CPU power on offer.
Nvidia and AMD have generations of medium and top end GPU ability to sell.
Solid-state drive (SSD) are reqady, RAM is cheap.
Show the world what Windows 8 with DX 11.1 can do. Get fans, developers and consumers dreaming of games beyond 1080p junk.
MS was always good at this, pushing colourful images/vids onto friendly fan and review sites, getting game dev code/help out to developers, making the PC an easy place to dev for vs Apple or Linux or Sony or ....
Amazing 2k quality at a reasonable price should be so easy to sell vs what? ios? PS3? a Mac Pro? Porting a game studio to opengl on Linux ...
Clean up the code base, forget making life so easy for PC and console developers. Run with quality over 5-10 years of code and art stagnation.
Make sure this never happens with the Win 8 team:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/04/sony-indies/ [wired.com]
Note how Sony tries to be helpful, reach out to the next gen, guide them with the best free win 8 code tools, massive amounts of free online code help.
Make writing games, artwork, sound and releasing on Windows 8 easy, profitable and fun.
If a developer does not have to worry about the drama of the OS they are selling on they will put that effort into making a great game.

Bull (4, Insightful)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418517)

Win 8 isn't killing PC sales. Tablets and the fact that most people use their computers for internet and email means you don't have to upgrade your computer every couple years. I still use 6-7 year old computers for everyday use if I need a new one I can go buy one for 3-4 hundred. I don't even use windows so for me and most of my friends and relatives the new computer doesn't even get to boot windows for the first time.

Re:Bull (1)

Black LED (1957016) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418667)

This is it exactly. I know people who still don't think a computer is useful without internet access. For most people, that is probably true when all they need is the web..

Re:Bull (4, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418749)

I suspect smart phones and the like are doing more than anything else to kill the market for PCs. You don't need a PC to be a dog on the internet anymore.

Are tablet PCs counted as PCs or tablets? (5, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418519)

An "important note" at the bottom of the ZDNet article explains that much of this drop is caused by the rise of convertible tablet PCs that run a PC operating system, which IDC counts as tablets, not PCs. Gartner appears to count them as PCs if they run a PC operating system, not a smartphone-derived, all-maximized-all-the-time operating system like iOS or Android.

Re:Are tablet PCs counted as PCs or tablets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418701)

So you're saying that Windows 8 desktops are not counted as PCs?

Re:Are tablet PCs counted as PCs or tablets? (1)

miroku000 (2791465) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418733)

An "important note" at the bottom of the ZDNet article explains that much of this drop is caused by the rise of convertible tablet PCs that run a PC operating system, which IDC counts as tablets, not PCs. Gartner appears to count them as PCs if they run a PC operating system, not a smartphone-derived, all-maximized-all-the-time operating system like iOS or Android.

I would be prone to count tablets as mobile devices and Laptops as computers. Because, if I ship a desktop machine with Android on it, does that make it a mobile device? I think the form factor is the best way to determine mobility. Besides, Windows 8 is pretty much a "smartphone-derived" operating system. Or at least the UI was designed for phones/tablets and supporting non-touch screen devices like most recent laptops and desktops was an afterthought.

Definition of Insanity (4, Interesting)

Compaqt (1758360) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418527)

If Windows isn't working, how about trying something else guys?

The answer is staring them in the face: Set up a foundation, share the expenses of development of a Linux desktop (Ubuntu or Mint).

Ubuntu/Mint is fine, it's just making sure the manufacturers are using all compatible hardware (or writing a driver for the odd device).

Prerelease only to consortium members.

It's either that, or sink on the M$ ship.

Re:Definition of Insanity (0)

baker_tony (621742) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418641)

M$! HA! You used a dollar symbol instead of an 'S' for MicroSoft, that's pretty cleaver, haven't seen that before.

Re:Definition of Insanity (1)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418691)

Hah! You used the old designation of MicroSoft by capitalizing the "S"! That's even more clever... You old softie.... :P

Re:Definition of Insanity (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418791)

HA HA . Never heard of App£e ?

Re:Definition of Insanity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418717)

It's not that Windows isn't working.. it may not be, but that's not why PC sales are dropping. Increase in use of mobile devices is why PC sales are dropping. Five years ago, if a businessman needed the latest mobile PC, they bought a laptop running a MS OS. Now, they buy a tablet, quite possibly running Android or iOS. In the best of these figures, only those running a standard desktop OS are counted (ie, generally, Windows-based tablets). Everything else, iOS and Android (Android alone accounts for over half the tablet market), aren't counted by either of these polls.

And naturally, as computers become more powerful they need to be purchased less often. In the late 90s and early 00s, computers grew in leaps and bounds and there was a massive boom as everyone needed to "get a computer", then within a few years this was no longer "good enough" to run the current OS. Comparatively, most computers that could run Windows XP can also run Windows 7. Better, broader support by the OSs has made upgrading less of a necessity. This was expected, and while games drove upgrade demand for a while, the rise of casual gaming which - generally - doesn't require a powerful computer (in fact, the aforementioned tablets are positioned perfectly for such) has replaced peoples need for a more powerful computer with something more convenient.

There's no doubt PC sales have dropped. Windows 8 hasn't killed it - in fact it probably came out at almost the best time to try and grab hold of a paradigm of combining mobile and desktop usage (even if us long-time users hate such a paradigm). Really, it had nothing to do with it. As they mention the "tipping point" themselves, it was always known that at some time the the cost/power ratio would shift in favor of mobile devices for everyday usage. Not all everyday usage, but generally the things that people traditionally bought new PCs for (access to new content).

Re:Definition of Insanity (5, Interesting)

istartedi (132515) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418813)

The "definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result" quote is only applicable if you "did the same thing" more than once and got poor results.

Windows 7 was working. People would have upgraded eventually. It wouldn't have been a blowout, but this is a mature industry now. You can't expect blowouts unless you really innovate. In other words, Microsoft was getting good results, "did something different" and got poor results. The saner course of action is to go back to what they were doing, namely working on making their desktop robust, working to make it more secure, maintaining as much backward compatability as possible, and maintaining their Office suite and other products that have solid traction at corporations.

If they wanted to get into mobile the "sane" way, they should have parallel tracked it like the X-box. When they introduced the X-box, they didn't turn the desktop experience into a console experience. That was their fundamental error--deciding that a mobile UI with lots of eye candy was the future, and imposing that on the rest of us.

As for going OSS/FS, it's like telling Apple to release their OS separately. The response to that is "Apple is a hardware company", likewise, "Microsoft is a software company". Of course neither company is "pure" hardware or software; but they both get their "bread and butter" from one or the other.

Definition of insanity? Doing something different just for the sake of it, especially when that something is contrary to your historicly successful business model and you are sitting on more than enough cash to help you make much better plans.

Re-release XP and see sales climb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418529)

This is funny because GNU/Linux is actually doing really really well...

Re:Re-release XP and see sales climb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418615)

since when?

Linux on the desktop is no further ahead than it was when Windows XP was released.

Apple has snatched away that cake, sorry bub.

On the smartphone and tablet front, Microsoft is making no inroads whatsoever. It's again, Apple's win. Android gets to be #2 or #1 depending if you look at sales or shipments to landfills.

Not Windows 8, Android and iPad (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418539)

All those tablet devices being used to surf the web, check emails etc. Those would have been laptops, in some cases full PC's, now they're tablets. And whereas I use to have a laptop running BBC IPlayer, now I run the Android version on a TV stick. It's not that Windows 8 is killing the PC market, the PC market is stuck in a rut and is decaying naturally. It's that Windows 8 isn't good enough to rescue it.

It's like landlines and mobile phones. People said mobile phones would be added to the landline, and people would keep the landlines. But that didn't happen, once people became reliant on the mobile, they stopped getting the landline. Same effect.

Surfing the web is surfing the web, checking email is checking email, the use is the same, these markets heavily overlap.

Re:Not Windows 8, Android and iPad (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418799)

Well, there's still a ways to go before a tablet can completely replace a desktop PC, the way mobile phones replaced land lines. As long as game developers can keep pushing the envelope in ways that requires better hardware, there will continue to be an enthusiast desktop PC market. Eventually even game development should get to the place where there's really no way to make use of better hardware any more, but we're nowhere near that. Realistic physics in particular still has a lot of room for improvement, which will probably take at least a decade or two to fully realize.

But that's the exception that proves your point. People who are not PC gamers or PC enthusiasts are buying Android tablets or iPads instead of desktops or laptops now, because they work well enough for what they do with a computing device most of the time.

Jumped the shark (5, Interesting)

h8sg8s (559966) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418547)

Windows is bad enough, but Windows + Ballmer is a disaster. MS could save itself with some new management.

Correlation neq Causation (1)

Kittenman (971447) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418549)

That's not to say that I don't think they have a point.

Slashdot repeats itself repeating itself (0)

roboticbebop (2771317) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418559)

Ho hum, another article about windows 8 or pc sales or both

Lets just cut to the chase

MS is evil
People don't buy PCs as often anymore
something about tablets
standard reply about walled gardens
standard reply about rooting your android device ignorning 90% of the consumer base

NEXT

Who upgrades? (1)

rueger (210566) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418561)

Sure, I change my OS regularly, but that because it's fun, free, and easy to try out new Linux distros. The only hardware upgrade I can see coming is a bigger hard drive, and maybe a new keyboard. Everything else came to me via Craigslist or was on sale at Staples three years ago when I last needed a new system.

My girlfriend is still running XP on her system because there is literally no reason why she would have needed to upgrade, XP runs Office and e-mail and XChrome just fine. Next year we bite the bullet when support ends, but even then I'll hunt up a Windows 7 OEM disc.

So... no Win 7? (1)

scottbomb (1290580) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418567)

Pardon my retail ignorance, but the manufacturers can't just put Windows 7 on the machines? Personally, I build my own computers so I put whatever OS on them I want and sometimes that's Xubuntu.

Re:So... no Win 7? (3, Informative)

adamstew (909658) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418739)

Microsoft isn't selling Windows 7 licenses anymore. PC manufacturers can't get new Windows 7 licenses to install on to their new computers. Their only option is to buy a windows 8 professional license and use the downgrade rights that come with the professional edition license to install Windows 7. This adds $100 to the cost of the windows license and therefor adds $100 to the price of the computer. They had this same issue with Windows XP when Vista came out... you had to pay more for the computer just to get XP because you had to buy the professional edition of the OS.

Re: So... no Win 7? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418761)

No one is impressed that you installed xubuntu.

Move into your parents basement and study gentoo and slackware. only emerge after you can compile your own kernel and distro.

Then you can call yourself a man! Well...sort of.

Re:So... no Win 7? (1)

Merls the Sneaky (1031058) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418767)

Not of MS isn't selling you keys.

Re:So... no Win 7? (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418779)

Pardon my retail ignorance, but the manufacturers can't just put Windows 7 on the machines?

I haven't bothered following the story, but if the past is any guide then MS won't let them. MS has a strong interest in selling their new shit instead of their old crap.[*]

[*] Although I admit that Windows 7 is almost usable. I wouldn't use it for my day-to-day work, but it's nowhere near as annoying as all the previous versions of Windows I've used. I'm guessing that that's why they made sure Windows 8 was a landmark new annoyance... got to get back to the basics, kind of thing.

Windows8 can be tamed, but why should you have to? (2)

isdnip (49656) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418569)

You can fix Windows 8 by adding Classic Shell or something similar, and then it acts a lot like 7, and you can avoid TIFKAM. But Microsoft never admits to a mistake. They are probably doubling down on it in Blue, rather than fixing it. It's a sure sign of too much monopoly power.

So if you need a new PC, then it's possible to live with 8, but it's true that PCs don't get obsolete as quickly as they used to. Unless you are a hard-core gamer and need the fastest performance, a 4-year-old system is likely to suffice. Especially on the desktop, which is easy to upgrade. Laptops are more likely to physically wear out, though some well-made ones last a long time. Mine's over 6 years old, runs XP, is on its fourth battery, and the keys are worn down, but it still works pretty well.

Re:Windows8 can be tamed, but why should you have (3, Insightful)

csumpi (2258986) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418769)

Stop this please. You don't need any addons to make win8 work in desktop mode. You don't need to use any of the metro apps either.

My laptop has win8, I only use it in desktop mode and works just like win7 did. All win7 programs work the same way. In fact it's nice to have the extra space from removing the start button on the taskbar. The only difference is that you get a full screen "start menu" when you hit the windows key. You can still type the name of the app or document just like in the star menu in win7. When it comes up, just hit enter to launch it. Same as win7.

I read reviews and scare mongering like your post, and was scared of win8 when when it arrived with my new laptop. But it's all unfounded sillyness. Win8 looks better and is faster than win7 and works in desktop mode just like win7 did.

Re:Windows8 can be tamed, but why should you have (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418881)

Actually I tried Windows 8 for months without the addons too, but when I installed the free one (forgot the name) I was amazed at how much less horrible it was to use. Fortunately I only boot into Windows when I really need to, which is very rarely.

Re:Windows8 can be tamed, but why should you have (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418821)

But Microsoft never admits to a mistake. They are probably doubling down on it in Blue, rather than fixing it. It's a sure sign of too much monopoly power.

The same can be said about GNOME, though they don't exactly have monopoly power. I think developers just think it's more fun to make "cool" new stuff, than to keep polishing the old reliable, usable stuff.

Plus MS needs the gimmickry to drive sales. Who would shell out money for W8 if it was perceived as W7 with some problems fixed?

What's driving most of the annoyance is the fact that software is treated the same way consumer electronics always has been. We foolishly think we have to have the latest and greatest, and the vendors are more than happy to oblige our stupidity.

Tablets can do it better (4, Insightful)

Freaky Spook (811861) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418573)

Both my parents have computers that are aging and now do 90% of their browsing, emails etc on the tablets I have given them. Windows 8, while a good idea was poorly implemented. There isn't any reason to upgrade to a new Laptop/Desktop for it and its rubbish as a tablet Operating system. After using it for 12 months its a jarring experience to use on the desktop, and using the Win 8 pro tab at work, having to drop back to desktop mode to do most of the tasks makes the tablet just seem pointless if you need keyboard/mouse to do most of your work. I'm not surprised Windows 8/Desktops/Laptops are failing because when it comes down to it, Microsoft and the OEM's are unable to give us compelling reasons on why we actually should buy one, or how they will make our lives better.

Just bough Windows 8 Laptop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418575)

I just bought windows laptop(in fact, I am typing this post from it). It is plain vanilla HP laptop - $400 from BestBuy, Core i3, 2nd generation. No touch screen.

So, I went through and installed all of my software: MySQL, Visio, Visual Studio 2012, Intel Compiler Suit ..........
Now when I press "windows" button on keyboard...... I have to scroll to the right, in order to get big ass list of shortcuts........ why ???

Press the Windows key then type (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418649)

Press the Windows key then type vis and see what doesn't pop up.

Re: Just bough Windows 8 Laptop (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418815)

Because pcs are being sold to two different markets now. Old people who can't see and children(by parents who would rather the Internet babysit...err, teach their children) so now computers need big colorful icons that appeal to both groups.

It's annoying to you because your prefrontal cortex is fully developed and you are not suffering macular degeneration (yet). Good for you!

Honestly, when they added a desktop in 3.1 I thought it was a dumb idea. I could navigate a directory tree via keyboard and open programs myself. Icons and start menus were for people who couldn't work a computer properly.

Time changes things, get used to it.

Re:Just bough Windows 8 Laptop (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418833)

This is the company that used to make you click "Start" to stop. Looking for sanity in their products is the road to insanity.

Mobile computing replacing regular computing? (2)

Goodyob (2445598) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418579)

"This is horrific news for PCs," said BGC Financial analyst Colin Gillis. "It's all about mobile computing now. We have definitely reached the tipping point."

Call me back when a tablet can run my TF2 flawlessly and when I can upgrade it by changing parts instead of buying an entirely new tablet. How many times are they gonna call the PC market dead before they realize how essential the PC market is?

Re: Mobile computing replacing regular computing? (1, Insightful)

dugancent (2616577) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418647)

Yawn. Get back to me when 90% of the PC using public even knows what TF2 is. Games are outliners, even more-so now than a few years ago.

Re:Mobile computing replacing regular computing? (1)

darue (2699381) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418653)

it baffles me the foolish bullshit some paid pundits pump. tablets are for CONSUMERS only. PCs enable you to be a PRODUCER. 'nuf said

Re:Mobile computing replacing regular computing? (3, Insightful)

foniksonik (573572) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418711)

Sorry bub, nobody's gonna call. You're not the mass market, you're a niche. Funny how things change over time. Tablets are becoming the mass market Internet device. Professionals will still buy PCs but everyone else, all those people who bought a PC to get 'online' in the 90s and upgraded to play games in 2000, they just don't need a PC anymore (they never did but it was the only good option).

It's just the way it is. The PC industry is going to consolidate soon. Hardware makers will still make servers and workstations and some will make tablets but the general purpose home PC is going away.

Re:Mobile computing replacing regular computing? (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418851)

The general purpose home desktop PC has been mostly dead for a while now, replaced by laptops. And now those are going away as well, replaced by tablets. There's going to be a niche market for PC enthusiasts and gamers for a good while yet though.

Win8 Experience (5, Interesting)

camicarl0923 (1820226) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418589)

I have had Windosws 8 since before it came out (somehow my school got it a couple days before release...) and I can honestly say that I wouldn't recommend this to anybody. The new start menu, without a touch screen computer, is absolutely ridiculous. I found that I would go to my desktop as soon as I started my computer, and never use the start menu, ever. Sure, startup is fractionally faster, but the interface I would give a score of 2/10. I had to make desktop shortcuts just so I don't have to navigate through the cryptic menus just to shut down or restart. Speaking of the interface, Microsoft should seriously fire the people who are responsible for this garbage. Windows 7 was amazing. It was fast, sharp, and easy to use. Now Microsoft is going in a different direction, trying to make Windows 8 too easy. Like seriously, how the fuck am I supposed to use these native apps on a day-to-day basis? The interface is obnoxiously minimalist and is WAY too much hassle for the everyday user. I have a nice chuckle every time I see the Windows 8 commercials on tv about using their Surface Pro's in a work environment. No person in the technology industry in their right fucking mind would buy one of those to use for work. Soon, I'm gonna downgrade to Win7, and I recommend everyone else to do the same. Not surprised at all that Win8 pc sales are down, it only makes sense. Shitty product = shitty sales.

Win 8 so bad you're going Linux with Win in a VM? (4, Interesting)

tarpitcod (822436) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418753)

I haven't run Win 8 and lots of folksI know haven't either. We aren't MS haters - we're pragmatists and pretty much comprise a group of users who have used every MS OS (OK Nobody ran ME) since DOS. If a company can produce a product so crappy that it does that it really makes you wonder what the hell is wrong with management.

The $64000 question is what does MS do now? The best I can think of is make the Win 8 'Aqua' style interface better - hell throw the Windows 7 UI in there. That way they could keep working on the tile based stuff but not alienate everyone.

Unfortunately they've pretty much managed to alienate a huge number of users.

I use Linux entirely for work, and Win 7 on my machines at home when I'm not running Linux. I'm thinking about a new laptop for home but don't want Windows 8. I think I'm actually going to just do Linux on that laptop now steam is available for Linux. If I need Windows I'll run it in a VM. I'm curious who else has come to the same conclusion. Windows in a VM and Linux as your main OS because Win 8 seems so crappy.

No good game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418591)

There have been what like four good games released recently? Borderlands 2(also on consoles), Torchlight 2, Skyrim(consoles too) and Natural Selection 2. Now maybe Bioshock Infinite (haven't gotten around to it yet) but that is not exactly a large selection of quality and doesn't do much for people who enjoy thinking games (a large portion of PC gamers).

Re:No good game? (2)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418847)

Apparently you haven't heard of the hot new game everyone spends their time on these days: Pjorn.

Even your momma probably plays it, when no one is watching. (Sorry - I didn't mean to conjure any images.)

No hardware (1)

jamesl (106902) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418605)

Perhaps it was an almost total lack of touch enabled, Windows 8 optimized hardware at product introduction and for some time after.

any common idiot could have predicted this (1)

darue (2699381) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418607)

any common idiot could have predicted this, too bad microsoft only listens to extraordinary idiots. they scared the end-user away and even more advanced users didn't realize how easy it was to ditch Metro. Yet even ditched it's annoying that it's there. Win 7 didn't need to be replaced, they've got a good thing here. Why in hell they thought a PC needed a tablet interface will be a question people ask for a long time to come. anyway, a mouse is better than fingers unless you have to lug the thing around in your hand.

Dock in, dock out (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418665)

a mouse is better than fingers unless you have to lug the thing around in your hand.

Then use the mouse when your tablet PC is on your desk, and use the touch screen when it is undocked and in your hand.

Re:any common idiot could have predicted this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418817)

they should have just made a tablet with an interface like the windows phone and tightly integrated the windows phone, windows tablet, and windows desktop with a cloud storage service. Basically what Apple did with iphone, ipad and macbooks/imacs.

The biggest problem is lack of options (5, Insightful)

toygeek (473120) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418619)

If I buy a new PC (I did buy one instead of build last year before windows 8 came out- for a quick gift to a friend in need) I would not hesitate to buy one with Windows 8 on it. I know how to install a program that'll make it friendlier for every day use. Or if I want I can put 7 back on it or a linux distro if I want. But for the average person, I see nothing but frustration from people.

PC makers need to give options. 7 or 8 should be available. People will say that Linux should be available too, and I won't disagree, but I don't think it will give an overall good user experience from most PC makers. But that's not what this is about.

This is about MS forcing vendors to force their customers to be guinea pigs for windows 8's new paradigm that totally sucks. Sales are down? GOOD. Maybe they'll get the message:

THE NEW WINDOWS 8 GUI SUCKS.

Re:The biggest problem is lack of options (1)

cplusplus (782679) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418751)

I installed it on my media center, and it's my primary device for media in my living room. The GUI's good for that, but having used it extensively there, I could not live with it on my laptop.

Re:The biggest problem is lack of options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418759)

Offering 7 will never happen, not for the major makers. They are contractually obliged to only offer windows 8 (or whatever the latest and greatest is).

Re:The biggest problem is lack of options (1)

toygeek (473120) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418777)

Yep, you're right. And that is why there is a lack of options, and why there is a problem.

Re:The biggest problem is lack of options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418781)

I don't think people should be given the option. Hopefully Win 8.1 fixes the half metro/half control panel shit and makes everything consistent. Given the choice, most people would make the wrong choice due to the press sensationalizing headlines like this one. Most people wont do actual research, and will form their ideas based on the today show/fox news headlines reporting that win 8 sucks.

Re:The biggest problem is lack of options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418869)

As a current employee, I can assure you, they have not gotten the message. They seem to think everyone will come around to their way of thinking about the Metro/Modern UI. It isn't going away any time soon unless the outcry gets much, much louder, I imagine. Posting AC for obvious reasons.

Microsoft removed the biggest anti-Linux argument (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418643)

"People won't switch to Linux/Android/whatever because they don't want to have to learn a new system."

Microsoft: "I know, let's make everybody learn a new system!"

Suddenly they've given their core customers a reason to look at their competition that they didn't have before.

Re:Microsoft removed the biggest anti-Linux argume (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418801)

Seriously? And what happens when people look at the competition? They see nice enough systems that don't run the fucking programs people want and need.

No matter how many times people here want to say it, it just isn't true: You can't take a mainstream user from Windows to "Linux/Android/whatever" without a LOT of pain, hand holding, etc., unless that person is such a lightweight user that s/he lives in a browser.

I've tried numerous times over the years to escape from MS Hell, having been a user of their crapware since MS DOS 1.0, and it's always the same story: Linux has a long list of great attributes and one hideous flaw, the lack of application (and sometimes driver) support.

Until that situation changes, MS still has its customers by the short hairs, and they aren't letting go.

Re:Microsoft removed the biggest anti-Linux argume (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43418895)

And over a flurry of "RTFM Luser!" postings everyone will switch to Apple.

You still don't get it. The problem with Linux is the gigantic egos, unhelpfulness and fractured inconsistent apps. It's the polar opposite of a consumer friendly system.

Completely Agree... (4, Interesting)

RyanFenton (230700) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418657)

Why own a large device pretending to be a smartphone, when you can just use a smart phone?

I mean, if it were set up out of the box to be used for business and, well, PC gaming out of the box, then I'd be interested in a system with Windows 8... but instead, it's an OS that is very ashamed of being a PC, and every time I access it's configuration, I'm going to see whole-screen interfaces, and other throwbacks to pre-3.1 Windows concepts that phones need to use, and for some reason are pushed everywhere in Windows 8.

Why would I use a system that is reluctant at best, to serve as an OS the way I'd like to use it? I'll stick to Windows 7 for my PC games, and I can't imaging any of the businesses I've ever worked at wanting to switch to 8 either.

But I'm sure there's some folks that like Metro. I mean, Microsoft had to be focus testing with someone - I just can't imagine who'd select that interface as the better to use.

Ryan Fenton

Um (2)

markdavis (642305) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418663)

Duh?

Nothing like an article stating the obvious. MS just won't give in- they continue to ignore users, businesses, reviewers, just about everyone. Treating your customers like enemies is not good for your business, MS. You are not quite the monopoly you once were.....

The Era of Endless Upgrades is Over (3, Interesting)

Irate Engineer (2814313) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418713)

The PC market has reached a point of saturation where, for 99.9% of the folks out there, the hardware in front of them is more than adequate for their needs (email & browsing, docs and spreadsheets). I haven't had a desktop PC for about 8 years, using first a Satellite laptop and now an Asus netbook with XP. Still even runs Word and Excel 97 (installed from CD, both softwares work and are completely adequate for my needs).

Tell me why I need a PC again? And while you're at it, tell me also why in hell I would need Windows 8? Or even Office 2010?

The PC is the wagon wheel of the computing world. It did it's job, but save for niche markets the average non-gamer doesn't need or want one and so it very naturally is fading into history. That's how it goes.

FLASHBACK! (3, Funny)

CheshireDragon (1183095) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418757)

Oh damn! I thought I was just back in 2006 and Vista was released...

Big surprise!

My company decided to NOT purchase any laptop (2, Interesting)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about a year and a half ago | (#43418831)

Last year (2012) my company purchased over 2,000 laptops for our sales force

Every year my company purchases about 1,500 to 2,500 laptops

This year my company decides to NOT purchase any laptop, simply because the laptop companies (Acer, Asus, Lenovo, HP, Dell( insist on putting Win 8 in laptops with i7 CPU

Due to the software that our sales force uses we need to run Windows on the laptop - but when we were looking for i7 powered laptops with Win 7, all the laptop manufacturers told us that they have to put Win 8 on their products because Microsoft says so

So, we decided to not purchase any laptop this year

I know, 2,000 laptop is not much, in the whole scheme of things, but I also know that my company is *NOT* the only company which decides against buying computers with Win 8 inside

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