Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Microsoft's "New Coke" Moment?

timothy posted about a year ago | from the basement-stash-makes-more-sense-for-coke dept.

Microsoft 786

theodp writes "Remember New Coke? Twenty-eight years ago, Coca-Cola replaced the secret formula of its flagship brand, only to announce the return of the "classic" formula just 79 days later. Had it launched in 2013, Coke's Jay Moye suspects a social media backlash would have prompted it to reverse itself even sooner. In a timely follow-up, ZDNet's Steven Vaughan-Nichols points out that Microsoft is facing its own New Coke moment with Windows 8. 'Does Ballmer have the guts to admit he made a mistake and give users what they clearly want?' Vaughan-Nichols asks. 'While it's too late for Windows 8, Blue might give us back our Start button and an Aero-like interface. We don't know.'"

cancel ×

786 comments

OSX is better anyway (-1, Flamebait)

truman1 (2915211) | about a year ago | (#43640651)

OS X is becoming the standard desktop OS. It's much better than both Windows and Linux desktops. After I tested OS X, there's no going back.

Re:OSX is better anyway (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640709)

Here's your cheque.

Re:OSX is better anyway (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640715)

I switched to OSX about a year ago, and while it has its shiny moments, it also has lots of blunders and I wouldn't really say that it's a better desktop than Windows 7. Besides, calling "standard desktop OS" something that has ~10% market share is ... funny.

Re:OSX is better anyway (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year ago | (#43640755)

The problem with the "LOW MARKET SHARE!!1!!" comments is that you're talking about a company having a 10% of a market worth billions of dollars. I will take 10% of a billion dollars any day of the week.

Apple *is* getting converts in key sectors and if Microsoft continues to blunder and do whatever the fuck they want they will get more. Microsoft won't go anywhere - there are too many Microsoft zombies in upper management - but to roll out the "low market share" argument is absurd here when Apple has more cash on hand than the federal government.

Apple priced itself out of the market (5, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#43640867)

Apple *is* getting converts in key sectors

No its not...and it won't Apple will never be a serious contender for the Desktop, it simply costs too much. Sales dropped 22% last quarter...and shrunk a more manageable 2% this, but any pretence of world domination, or mass exodus to Apple simply aren't happening.

The reality is Apple could buy Dell (about 22 times), or they could License their OS, but if anything they have got used to relying on Microsoft being so awful..they get to roll around on wads of cash...and even though the salesman is dead, Cooky seems indent on second guessing what a dead man will do.

I love the idea of Apple going for Microsofts throat, but they Love the incredibly profitable Duopoly. It looks like companies are putting bets on Android...and Linux is sneaking market share.

Re:Apple priced itself out of the market (4, Insightful)

jythie (914043) | about a year ago | (#43640981)

I think if nothing else Apple has learned form history, both its own and the many other PC companies that, well, no longer exist. Learning to be a steady niche has done it well while trying to dominate the market has ruined many of its contemporaries.

2013 the year of the Apple Desktop (0, Flamebait)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#43641159)

I think if nothing else Apple has learned form history, both its own and the many other PC companies that, well, no longer exist

Except its an insane fantasy...the PC industry is still dripping with money (although not considered as sexy as tablets).

Lets be honest Microsoft & Intel make over 70% gross margins (Apple executives used to remember good margins)...admittedly HP has to suffer at only 20% *rolls eyes*

..but again none of that changes the statement that Apple (Inc...not computer anymore, now they are not a PC..one phone company) and Microsoft both profit from the stable Desktop Duopoly, pretending that they are in any way in conflict is a little sad...celebrating the fact as an Apple user because Apple make a lot of money from its users, I have always found bizarre.

...and again real competition is coming from Android (or Chrome...or Chromified Android), and Linux continues to make strides.

Re:Apple priced itself out of the market (1, Insightful)

goarilla (908067) | about a year ago | (#43641065)

The Desktop market is shrinking in favor of tablets and smartphones. Two areas where apple has strong products (One could argue they created those markets).

Re:Apple priced itself out of the market (1)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year ago | (#43641145)

Really, what about the articles saying saying the Tablet was a fad?. Oh and then there were the sales numbers showing Smart phones becoming stagnant. People are looking for something new, the smart phone and tablet era is stale and cliche.

Re:OSX is better anyway (1)

Kjella (173770) | about a year ago | (#43641007)

The problem with the "LOW MARKET SHARE!!1!!" comments is that you're talking about a company having a 10% of a market worth billions of dollars. I will take 10% of a billion dollars any day of the week.

Yes, but saying they'll be the new standard makes no sense, Apple yields the low end and mainstream market early and often. Seen any budget iPhones? iPads? Macs? Budget Apple anything? It doesn't matter how many blunders Microsoft makes as long as Apple doesn't want to enter those market segments and do it better. They don't want to start a race to the bottom against Windows any more than against Android, and no we won't all be buying $1000 computers, $500 phones and $500 tablets any time soon.

Re:OSX is better anyway (4, Insightful)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about a year ago | (#43641085)

Apple has more cash on hand than the federal government.

That is a fairly low bar, I have more cash on hand than the federal government as I don't run a deficit.

Re:OSX is better anyway (5, Insightful)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about a year ago | (#43641049)

I switched to OSX about a year ago, and while it has its shiny moments, it also has lots of blunders and I wouldn't really say that it's a better desktop than Windows 7. Besides, calling "standard desktop OS" something that has ~10% market share is ... funny.

I don't think he meant it like that, i.e. in terms of market share. You are too stuck in the MS fanboy idea of Windows, Excel, Word etc. and their market share making them 'Industry Standards'. He probably meant more like that OS X is becoming more of a benchmark/reference point to measure your own Desktop OSes usability against than Windows is, i.e. that people are more likely to steal ideas from OS X than Windows 8. Of course you may disagree on whether OS X is the best UI ever made. Having used both I'd say it's better than Windows if only because OS X has a lower UI friction factor, although Windows 7 made major strides in that department so it's less of a factor than it was in the time of XP and Vista. I don't think anybody will be using Windows 8 as a usability reference UI any time soon. If OS X was discontinued tomorrow my next choice would probably be Gnome 3, bugs and all rather than either Windows 7 or 8.

Re:OSX is better anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640751)

OS X is becoming the standard desktop OS

Really? OS X 10.8 market share is below that of Windows 8, despite being around for 6 months longer.

If Apple had allowed PC manufacturers to ship OS X at Windows 8 launch, then it could be very well standard desktop OS by now. But Apple chose not to 1-up Microsoft in order to avoid diluting their brand, so OS X remains confined to the high-price niche.

Re:OSX is better anyway (5, Insightful)

dfghjk (711126) | about a year ago | (#43640871)

OS X may be "much better than both Windows and Linux desktops" but it will never be the "standard desktop OS". Apple's business model presents itself as the premium option, not the standard one, and Apple would just as soon see OS X die in favor of iOS.

A desktop line consisting of gimmicky miniature, an all-in-one, and and overpriced, functionally obsolete deskside doesn't make for standard even if it makes for the standard for you.

Re:OSX is better anyway (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641151)

OS X may be "much better than both Windows and Linux desktops".

What is better for you, maybe is not better for me. Don't shove it on everyone else.

New Coke? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640653)

More like Old Joke. (This has happened before, you know.)

Re:New Coke? (5, Insightful)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year ago | (#43640693)

Bob
Me
Vista
Clippy
Zune

Re:New Coke? (0)

truman1 (2915211) | about a year ago | (#43640743)

Nothing wrong with Vista. It was just the drivers that weren't ready.

Re:New Coke? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640817)

troll.

Re:New Coke? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640843)

What good is an OS without drivers, or drivers that are so buggy that the system constantly crashes? Vista evolved into Win 7, which is a pretty solid product, but to say there was nothing wrong with vista means you either work for MS, or you have your head lodged securely in your posterior.

Re:New Coke? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640939)

I wasn't aware Microsoft owned all of the hardware manufacturers that failed to release good drivers for Vista in a timely manner.

Or, from a different perspective, is it Ubunutu's/Red Hat's/Gentoo's/Debian's/etc... fault that nVidia's/AMD's/Creative's/etc... drivers are garbage on Linux?

Re: New Coke? (3, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about a year ago | (#43640895)

There were a lot of things wrong with Vista. Drivers were just one problem. Most OS releases from MS have some work; that's why anyone with sense waits for SP1. Vista was different in that it was bungled more than usual. Vista had a very noisy UAC that was muzzled later in patches. Also Vista was released for machines that barely ran it. Hence the Vista capable/ready fiasco.

Re:New Coke? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641037)

Not just that, there was also the whole "Vista Capable" disaster that soured a lot of people to the OS. When consumers bought a new OEM PC that had a Vista logo on it, they expected the PC to run Vista well. However this was often not the case, machines that could barely run crippled Vista Home Basic were given the "Vista Capable" badge.

This (along with the driver issues you mentioned) lead to the widespread impression that Vista was a clunker. By the time MS got their act together, it was too late and the Vista name was already mud.

Re:New Coke? (5, Funny)

lennier1 (264730) | about a year ago | (#43640897)

^^ It's more of a company tradition.

Re:New Coke? (3, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | about a year ago | (#43640923)

Well, Zune didn't have an "Zune Classic" to fall back on. A product failure isn't really what we're talking about. And I'm not sure if Bob was ever a serious contender to their flagship model. It was just something you were supposed to install on top of Windows, and it was never included with Windows. Windows ME didn't try to change anything about windows at all. It's pretty much exactly the same as Windows 98, except it crashed a whole lot more. I'm really not completely sure if that's more to do with Windows Me, or the combination of bad drivers and cheap low quality RAM which was popular at the time. Vista again seems to have been a driver problem, combined with underspecced computers trying to run an operating system they didn't have the power to run. I had a Vista laptop which had decent drivers and saw no problems with Vista on that specific machine. Windows 8 is a whole different story. They could very easily rectify the problem by just going back to the old interface. There's rumour they will in the next version.

Re:New Coke? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641013)

Am I the only one that loves the Zune? Cost me 50 dollars (refurbished), xbox music subscription costs $8 a month for unlimited music. I don't mind a DRM when its actually more convenient and it really is. They have premade playlists of music I may like that I can drag and drop to my Zune. I can still add my own MP3s if I want, but their system is easier to use. I want a song, I search for it. It saves me more time in hunting for music after the first search.

Also, MS isn't the only one making a mistake with their new interface. Gnome (and by proxy Fedora) and Ubuntu did the same thing first and it sucks. I did find it better on my small netbook screen admittedly, but for development on my multi-monitor setup it was terrible. I'm still using FC14 on my computers because even MATE wasn't that great an alternative. I hope everyone goes back to the useful GUI for non-tablet interfaces.

Re:New Coke? (1)

Hatta (162192) | about a year ago | (#43641023)

You forget DOS 4 and Windows 2.

Re:New Coke? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641077)

XP-64

If you can find drivers, it supports 128GB ram.
That's the same as Windows 8.

It's like deja vu all over again (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640655)

Seems like Microsoft already had their 'New Coke' moment with Vista.

Two failures in three OS launches is going to be a lot more difficult for the shareholders to get over.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640685)

Since it's not consecutive, they've still got some leeway. But who knows? Blue might blow to make it two in a row.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (2)

dubsnipe (1822200) | about a year ago | (#43640821)

Vista, AND Windows Me.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (4, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#43640861)

Many of Microsoft's 'failures' are the result of doing something new. And then when the 'improved' version comes out, it can be quite a hit.

Vista - flop
Vista SE (Win 7) - big success

Office 2007 - somewhat of a flop due to criticism of the Ribbon
Office 2010 - not a whole lot different from 2007, but a lot more popular now that people are familiar with the Ribbon

Windows 8 - Works pretty good, but people bitch about the UI
Windows 8 SE (Blue?) - Hey, Metro apps are cool now. Maybe.

Of course, they have done it backwards...
Windows 98 SE - pretty good
Windows 98 SE 2 (Win Me) - "Hey, people will forget about this once Vista comes out"

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640931)

Terrible launch aside, Vista SP2 on modern hardware is actually a good OS and in some respects better than win7. For example it has a search function which fucking works, rather than one that kinda sorta works after you mess about with the indexing options but you still can't rely upon to tell the truth, so you have to use grepwin or suchlike instead.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43640971)

Erh... the search function worked better in XP, actually. That's something I don't get with MS, why do they REMOVE features users enjoy about their system (like,say, search) and ADD features that drive you nuts (like, say, redesigning the friggin' interface to make my desktop look like an oversized tablet PC).

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641115)

Each generations of Windows since Win2K dumb down the OS for the masses without letting the more advanced users having a say in the matter.

They should really fork the OS and make Windows 7.X series. As for Windows RaT... It can rot in hell.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641119)

this, absolutely this. The search has been going downhill for ages.

even with XP I always made the reg changes needed to get the Windows 2000 style search back, because it actually worked, especially when it came to searching IN files.

These days something like Total Commander is *essential* for decent file management and searching within WIndows. Aren't such things meant to be the fundamental aspects of a good operating system? What went wrong? Can we even access EXT natively yet either?

As an operating system, performing core operating system functions Windows has been slipping for a while, Win 8 was just the latest in the many steps toward turning it into a content delivery system rather than an operating system.

Re:It's like deja vu all over again (2)

jamesh (87723) | about a year ago | (#43640937)

I said just that [slashdot.org] about Vista when Windows 7 came out.

New Poke (0)

alphatel (1450715) | about a year ago | (#43640657)

The problem is the trend of being cool because you can complain has left .
Can't find the start button? Yes it's damn annoying I agree, but New Coke sucked all around. Windows 8 isn't all about a single button. A keyboard you aren't used to will ruin your life much more miserably, but do you call Dell and tell them the computer should go in the garbage? It's time people got used to this mess. Yes as a hardcore 24 hours a day user it is definitely a mess and why we can't get to the shutdown or log off screen with a click is frustrating. You are not going to sell businesses on this model the way it is right now. But it is not going to make anyone go out and change their life. Let the insane and moaners do whatever makes them feel better. I will donate a leper to your cause.

Re:New Poke (5, Insightful)

Dan Dankleton (1898312) | about a year ago | (#43640707)

Windows 8 doesn't suck because of the lack of a start button.
It doesn't suck because of a lack of an Aero like interface
The Metro interface doesn't suck

Windows 8 sucks because it flips between the classic and the metro interface seemingly at random. Yes, we computer folks know that it depends on whether the program has been written as a metro program or a classic one, but from the start screen there is no way to tell what interface you'll end up in when you click on a program. And I'm pretty sure that consistency is one of the central tenets of good UI design.

Re:New Poke (4, Interesting)

mwvdlee (775178) | about a year ago | (#43640763)

The whole point of the Metro interface is to be inconsistent with the old UI.
How else can you charge developers for writing an application they could have just as easily have written using the old interface for free?

Re:New Poke (2)

CastrTroy (595695) | about a year ago | (#43640973)

They are actually only charging developers for being on the Windows store. There's a metro version of Chrome for instance. You can actually flip-flop back and forth between the two interfaces depending on what you are doing. Which can be kind of nice. It's kind of interesting that it took tablets for us to realize that full screen, and I mean every pixel, not full screen, minus task bar, minus title bar, minus menu bar, minus a tool bar can actually be quite nice to use in many situations.

Re:New Poke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640797)

The other problem is that the "classic" onscreen keyboard doesn't work. You have to punch a button to get it to appear and disappear after entering a text field. This makes classic tablet apps completely broken if you need to input anything.

On Windows Xp-7, the touch keyboard figured out what you wanted and got out of the way.

Re:New Poke (5, Interesting)

dell623 (2021586) | about a year ago | (#43640967)

Windows 8 sucks at every single level. Even the Metro interface, while the design is interesting and unique, ultimately isn't all that use friendly. Very few applications have actually done something useful with live tiles, and the whole pastel colour thing goes to hell when other apps choose to make multi colour logos instead of the style Microsoft uses. Install a few apps and the whole metro screen looks dreadful and unwieldy and unusable. It's like Android widgets, clever idea but I haven't seen anything beyond weather widgets that you would really want on your home screen. And it's now so quick and simple to get to much used apps or Google Now, and sharing is so easy in Android, widgets seem pretty superfluous except as shortcuts to apps.

That is on top of the other issues. The one reason I haven't switched to Macs until now is that the easy familiarity and efficiency with using Windows will take some time to learn on a Mac. Windows 8 kills that argument, a few minutes with it and I realize if I am learning something new I might as well move to Mac. And maybe if Windows 8 followed Vista we would be more open to it. The problem is Windows 7 is so amazingly good at staying out of the way and letting you get things done, it makes Win 8 even more jarring.

Windows 8 is also being pushed out on the same cheap laptops with low res screens and awful touchpads, where a gesture based interface is no fun to use. I got one for my mother, and I regret not just getting a chromebook. As soon as Google get proper offline editing of MSOffice files, chrome will become a better option for so many people.

Re:New Poke (1)

jacekm (895699) | about a year ago | (#43641083)

Metro doesn't suck is your personal opinion. Metro interfsce sucks for many of us who use laptop and desktop. The proof of it is in tremendous popularity of third party "Start button" replacement applications. I don't want to see any Metro on my computers. Not only it is butt ugly but also lacks tree structure so it is worse than my organized start menu. Don't even mention that I can search for programs by typing. I use several hundred of applications and those often used are already pinned to the desktop so I don't need to search for them. The ones that I use rarely are not memorized by it;s name so cannot be searched by typing. The yare searched by navigating tree structure of the organized menu. When I use my computers I don't want any Metro at all, I don't want any charms, active corners or any of that junk. I want Metro deleted from my computer completely so it doesn't waste my disk space. That how much it sucks for many of us. I refuse to buy / dwnload any application that runs on WinRT - on Metro interface. This is my private boycot of the Metro concept. I will only buy or download application that run on the desktop. In addition I refuse to buy Windows Phone or Windows tablet. They come with Metro like interface.

JAM

Re:New Poke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641163)

Windows 8 doesn't suck because of the lack of a start button.

It doesn't suck because of a lack of an Aero like interface

The Metro interface doesn't suck

Windows 8 sucks because it flips between the classic and the metro interface seemingly at random. Yes, we computer folks know that it depends on whether the program has been written as a metro program or a classic one, but from the start screen there is no way to tell what interface you'll end up in when you click on a program. And I'm pretty sure that consistency is one of the central tenets of good UI design.

Exactly. I took the time to untangle this problem on my windows 8 machine and now it works fine. Also I'm baffled that technical people find a huge difference in the OS features. I work on both OS X and Windows 8 everyday and well, they both host applications pretty well.

They've done this before (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640669)

Remember Microsoft Bob?

Apparently, neither did anyone at Microsoft.

Re:They've done this before (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year ago | (#43640717)

The problem with Microsoft is after they got to a certain size they started taking on characteristics of IBM. It does seem that the attitude is "they'll take what we give them." Their decisions about their products always seem to be based on what is good for THEM and what they want reality to be rather than what is good for users and what actual reality is.

Re:They've done this before (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43640997)

I let you in on a little secret: ALL products', no matter which area, primary function is to satisfy their maker. Not their user. Satisfying the user is just the necessary evil to get him to fork over the money.

"You're holding it wrong" (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640675)

Rarely ever will a CEO admit a mistake. It's the user's fault for not loving it.

Re:"You're holding it wrong" (1)

Karl Cocknozzle (514413) | about a year ago | (#43640829)

Rarely ever will a CEO admit a mistake. It's the user's fault for not loving it.

Exactly! And he'll argue it convincingly to the board during the "Why should you get a bonus meeting this year?"

Re:"You're holding it wrong" (5, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#43640885)

With most large companies, it's up to the Board to admit the CEO made a mistake. Usually with a severance package that your entire family couldn't earn in their collective lifetimes.

Re:"You're holding it wrong" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640941)

Apple Maps?

Re:"You're holding it wrong" (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43641045)

If your users are wrong, then YOU are wrong.

You want my money.

I only want your product if I like it, but you want my money no matter whether you like me. It's money. You could hate me from here to the bank and back and you'd STILL take my money.

Satisfy me! Else, no money for you!

Yes, products first of all have to make their maker happy. But to do that they have to be sold. Nobody wants products stockpiled in some storage room. Not only do they not generate revenue, they cost money for the room they take up (ok, granted, with software storage is not so terribly a problem). The very LAST thing you need is products you cannot SELL. Not by making a product, by selling it you create revenue!

Give ME what I want and you can have what you want: My money.

Wishful thinking. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640679)

I don't care for Windows 8 as much as the next guy, but they're not going to reverse field; Microsoft is all in on this.

Re:Wishful thinking. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640819)

Depends on what the companies who pay a lot of money for licensing are saying. MS dont give a real shit about the consumer but the Enterprise - who by far are the ones MS depends on - are saying no, they dont want W8 or Metro.

Ya think MS are going to stand there and stick to their guns when Enterprise says fuck it and refuses to upgrade?

Re:Wishful thinking. (3, Informative)

ebh (116526) | about a year ago | (#43641061)

And if you think they will, look at when Microsoft originally wanted to EOL WinXP, and when they actually did.

Re:Wishful thinking. (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43641067)

Worse, do you think Dell, HP et al will sit still and just twiddle their thumbs when companies don't buy new PCs because they can't get them with anything but Win8?

New Coke was a Flop? (5, Interesting)

Deathlizard (115856) | about a year ago | (#43640687)

I'll debate that while New Coke didn't work out, the aftermath resulted in Coke classic dominating the cola wars with a solid lead for decades now.

If it wasn't for new Coke, Pepsi would have overtaken Coke in the mid 80's and never looked back.

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640753)

No, New Coke and then the switch to "Classic Coke" concealded the real changes from using sugar to using corn syrup as a sweetener. Classic Coke was *not* identical to the old Coke formula, it was considerably cheaper to make because of that switch to corn syrup.

We might see something similar with the taskbar, where they re-organize the taskbar in Microsoft's classic non-backwards-compatible ways but conceal them behind the restoration of any taskbar whatsoever.

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (4, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#43640889)

No, New Coke and then the switch to "Classic Coke" concealded the real changes from using sugar to using corn syrup as a sweetener. Classic Coke was *not* identical to the old Coke formula, it was considerably cheaper to make because of that switch to corn syrup.

We might see something similar with the taskbar, where they re-organize the taskbar in Microsoft's classic non-backwards-compatible ways but conceal them behind the restoration of any taskbar whatsoever.

it's not the metro ui they want. it's the software marketplace that they want. that's the whole business case for windows8 from microsofts view. they had to create a new ui so they could force developers to submit to paying a real ms tax of thirty percent.. well, they didn't have to do that but the backlash is less.

just imagine the execs eyeing getting thirty percent from every CS installation. thirty percent from every autocad installation.

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (1)

dfghjk (711126) | about a year ago | (#43640945)

"No, New Coke and then the switch to "Classic Coke" concealded the real changes from using sugar to using corn syrup as a sweetener."

A devious change that literally no one noticed at the time because the taste was no different. Neither are the health consequences. It's just the popular whipping boy for people who want to believe that sugar itself isn't deadly.

"We might see something similar with the taskbar, where they re-organize the taskbar in Microsoft's classic non-backwards-compatible ways but conceal them behind the restoration of any taskbar whatsoever."

Right, because Microsoft's real goal is to make the taskbar worse than it was before without anyone noticing. It's critical thinking skills like these that lead to the HFCS BS.

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641071)

Spoken like a true american that has never tried a non-hfcs beverage outside of their border...

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (4, Informative)

jmauro (32523) | about a year ago | (#43641141)

The corn syrup thing is just a myth [snopes.com] . They switched from sugar to corn syrup five years before the introduction of New Coke.

Re:New Coke was a Flop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641055)

I'll debate that while New Coke didn't work out, the aftermath resulted in Coke classic dominating the cola wars with a solid lead for decades now.

If it wasn't for new Coke, Pepsi would have overtaken Coke in the mid 80's and never looked back.

I had to take a marketing class back in college and one of the cases we studied was "New Coke" and Coke's handling of it. On the one hand it was a disastrous product launch. So you can look at it in the context of it being a cautionary tale of what can happen if you don't conduction your market research properly. On the other hand Coke's response to the situation is also studied as a "best case" for how you deal with a marketing disaster. Not only did they salvage their brand and end up winning the "cola wars" but they were able to substitute High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) into the original coke recipe. There are conspiracy theories about which say making that switch without public outcry was the whole point of the operation.

That is what happen (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640699)

...when you put sh** in the new recipe.

Not New Coke - more Jumping Shark (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640729)

To say this is a "New Coke" moment is to fail to identify Microsoft's slow but irreversible decline. It's just another punctuation on the way down.

Even Earlier (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640731)

For me it was W7 when I couldn't get the classic view. The newer views are still a hindrence.

It's Microsoft's "New Cock" moment (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640737)

A new cock that distributes HIV.

MS Every Other Rule (0)

technosaurus (1704630) | about a year ago | (#43640745)

If you haven't figured it out yet every other version of a MS product is a test bed for new/bad ideas. ME mostly sucked, Vista sucked and 8 sucked worse, but the salvageable parts got integrated into the releases in-between. This is a marketing tactic designed to part consumers with their money. Odd releases == market new features that look visually appealing in ads to consumers. Even releases == market "Hey we fixed our crap like you asked"

Re:MS Every Other Rule (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#43640903)

Win ME did it backwards compared to the other ones. ME was based on the 95/98 line and was a crapflop following a successful product and was the end of the line (after ME, MS ditched it's separate "consumer OS" and just made variations of the business line (NT) for consumers).

Microsoft doesn't care about PC anymore (4, Interesting)

Hentes (2461350) | about a year ago | (#43640771)

What these critics all miss is that Microsoft is now betting on the tablet market, and doesn't give a damn what its PC users think.

Re:Microsoft doesn't care about PC anymore (5, Interesting)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#43640837)

If that's really how they're thinking, they're dead and don't realize it yet.

Windows on the PC is known by just about everybody. Microsoft's tablet offerings are not. If people hate what Microsoft is offering them in Windows 8, why would they ever seriously consider buying Microsoft in the tablet market?

People don't have a lot of choice in the PC market, but MIcrosoft is a nobody in tablets. If your experience with the last MIcrosoft thing you used sucked, why would you go with them in a market where they're nobody when you could just get a known commodity in either Apple or Android tablets?

Microsoft needs to leverage their PC users to grow their tablet base, not beat them and hope they come back for more. That is not going to fly.

Original Taste (4, Funny)

puddingebola (2036796) | about a year ago | (#43640801)

I loved the flavor of new Coke. The Edsel was an innovative automobile. I still have Vista installed on my PC. I plan to upgrade to the Windows 8 experience. I am insane.

Re:Original Taste (2)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | about a year ago | (#43640915)

They did sell it as "Coca-Cola II" for a few years after the whole fiasco. Whats interesting is that Coca-Cola eventually made a diet version of the "Coke Classic" formula called Coke Zero. Diet Coke junkies didn't revolt because they still sell it side by side.

Re:Original Taste (1)

Barefoot Monkey (1657313) | about a year ago | (#43641113)

That's interesting. I've never encountered "New Coke" in my lifetime, but I find Coke Zero much better than Diet Coke.

Bring back Clippy! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640803)

I'm not giving MS any more of my hard earned cash until I see Clippy up there helpfully interfering with my mouse clicks.

I want the start button ? (0)

Yvanhoe (564877) | about a year ago | (#43640809)

If I have a keyboard, I want a shortcut that allows me to write the command I want to start.

If I am on a touchscreen, I prefer to have a big scrollable list of icons than a menu.

The Start menu was a strange idea that was Microsoft attempt at copying the Apple icon. It never really worked as intended. I don't miss it (the latter may be due partly to the fact that I don't use Windows much anymore)

Decades of Technological Progress (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640813)

And we get a faster complaint window. Coke back sooner, now that's what all of us have spent our lives doing.

Windows 8 Is the Innovation MS needs (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640839)

I hope not. I hope they stick to their guns. Look, I am not the biggest MS fan, but Windows 8 is probably the most innovative and certainly the boldest thing MS has done in years. Maybe, ever.

the start button is an afterthought, it was something to get rid of how we used Windows 3.11 (which was permanantly opened folders). It was neat, it worked, but that is the past. The part people don't seem to grasp is that window with all those boxy icons IS the start menu. it is just visulazed now.

they will cave, because that is what MS does, but they shouldn't. Windows 8 is fantatic, and MS should grab their users and drag them out of 1995.

Re:Windows 8 Is the Innovation MS needs (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640943)

You can't be serious. Windows 8 makes it damn near impossible to run a multi-windowed environment - which is what the OS was named for. It is pretty clear that Microsoft panicked with the tablet boom and forced a tablet onto a desktop. Yes, tablets are probably going to be used for a single app at a time, but I still need a desktop that let's me access multiple windows at once since I normally run about 13 applications at once.

Re:Windows 8 Is the Innovation MS needs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641021)

running mulitple windows at once and bringing back the start menu are two different issues. I'd agree the multi application use needs to be improved, but that doesn't mean reverting to a previous GUI, just because.

using something similar to launchpad in OSX, they could easily keep both the Metro look and allow for multi-applications.

Re:Windows 8 Is the Innovation MS needs (3, Insightful)

jamesh (87723) | about a year ago | (#43641005)

I hope not. I hope they stick to their guns. Look, I am not the biggest MS fan, but Windows 8 is probably the most innovative and certainly the boldest thing MS has done in years. Maybe, ever.

the start button is an afterthought, it was something to get rid of how we used Windows 3.11 (which was permanantly opened folders). It was neat, it worked, but that is the past. The part people don't seem to grasp is that window with all those boxy icons IS the start menu. it is just visulazed now.

they will cave, because that is what MS does, but they shouldn't. Windows 8 is fantatic, and MS should grab their users and drag them out of 1995.

Have you tried using w8/2012 over a low bandwidth link? The suckiness is terrible to behold. Visual prettiness may belong on a tablet where big icons are needed to accommodate big fat sausage fingers, but how useful is a touch screen going to be on a server where you need to create a new account or something useful?

The way I get around w8/2012 is much like w7 - hit the windows key and start typing what I want. w8 is _so_ much slower to give me the answer so i'm less productive.

Re:Windows 8 Is the Innovation MS needs (2, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#43641051)

Yep, nothing says "innovation" like confusing the hell out of your users and removing the ability to have multiple programs on screen at once.

Because nobody who uses Windows multitasks, right?

The unwashed masses (1, Flamebait)

Taantric (2587965) | about a year ago | (#43640845)

This really riles me that people are rejecting Windows 8 because it does not have a fucking 'Start' button. Just the mindless stupidity of it just boggles the mind. Windows 8 is fast, lean and very impressive OS. It continues the great work done on Windows 7 and really builds on that foundation. How fucking stupid are these people that they don't understand the Metro start screen is just a full screen modern version of the start button. Fucking Lowest Common Denominator morons dragging the rest of us down with them.

Re: The unwashed masses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641029)

Lean!!?!?

Re:The unwashed masses (1)

jamesh (87723) | about a year ago | (#43641033)

This really riles me that people are rejecting Windows 8 because it does not have a fucking 'Start' button. Just the mindless stupidity of it just boggles the mind. Windows 8 is fast, lean and very impressive OS. It continues the great work done on Windows 7 and really builds on that foundation. How fucking stupid are these people that they don't understand the Metro start screen is just a full screen modern version of the start button. Fucking Lowest Common Denominator morons dragging the rest of us down with them.

Log into a 2012 server over a 128kbit/second connection and see how progressive it is then. It's awful. If you want to waste cpu cycles and bandwidth drawing pretty screens then more power to you, but I have work to do.

It's not that much of a backtrack (2)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#43640859)

They don't need to backtrack very much. Add a button during initial user setup that lets you enable boot to desktop if you want it. When that's on, boot to desktop and show a start button. At a bare minimum that button could just bring up the Metro Start Screen, which as long as it had a clear way to close it (like an X at the top right when on a PC) would mollify a lot of the complaining.

Bringing back the full start menu would solve more of it, but I'm not convinced that's entirely necessary. In my experience most users actually start programs by clicking icons on the desktop and don't use the start menu much at all anyway. What they really need is just a more familiar way to do what they need to do.

For the more serious people that really want a full start menu back, there's stuff like Start8.

Fix, by the way (1)

colfer (619105) | about a year ago | (#43640907)

Classic Shell is the way to go with Win8 by the way. Works like a... *not*charm. I am never in Metro besides a brief instant on startup. And all the edge mouse gestures are gone! I now prefer Win8 to Win7. Thank gawd for whoever is writing Classic Shell. MS should pay them.

Formula Change (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43640921)

The change to New Coke and then back to Classic Coke happened because Coke wanted to change their formula but knew that consumers would notice a taste difference. They needed to create a time barrier that would allow people to forget what Classic Coke tasted like so it was in their interest, in the long term, to release an inferior product knowing people wouldn't like it and "force them" to change back to the Classic formula which, actually, had changed to a cheaper ingredients list. It was one of the smartest executions of a formula change ever yet people constantly view it as a marketing blunder.

Missing the point (2)

UbuntuniX (1126607) | about a year ago | (#43640929)

I'm a full time Linux user and admittedly a basher of windows, but I am generally quite impressed with windows 8. The tiled environment, though different, is something I could get used to. The problem is they've missed the point of it; when you still have to go to a traditional desktop to do pretty much anything, why bother?

When will this bullshit ever stop? (-1, Troll)

Racemaniac (1099281) | about a year ago | (#43640963)

I've both used windows vista & windows 8 a lot, and both are very decent versions of windows. Vista was very stable & fast for the time i used it (a few years), and now i've got windows 8, and i like the look, and it's extremely fast :). The new start menu is a bit of getting used to, and there are some improvements possible, but it's a very decent first attempt, and i'd rather have them improve that, than keep that old start menu alive forever because people are so afraid of change -_-.

And seriously, all the stupid things you read about it on slashdot are just ridiculous. it's not because we now got a tablet friendly start menu that allows some basic applications in it, that the entire desktop and every single other feature of windows suddenly disappeared, there still is a desktop, windows, multitasking, ... just some fancier start menu that's strange at the start, but works pretty well. and when my family sees me using it, they seem fairly positive, the change to the new system is only a week of getting used to it.

For all the intelligence that people always say is here, why do you all have to act like conservative bigots when it's about windows?? both vista & 8 are decent windowses, and all the fuss about them is just plain ridiculous -_-.

Re:When will this bullshit ever stop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641047)

Obvious shill is obvious

Re:When will this bullshit ever stop? (3, Informative)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#43641075)

Vista did suck when it came out for quite a lot of people, but the core problem wasn't Vista. The problem was that the driver model changed and there was a lot of immature drivers out there. But for your average home user, all they understand is that the computer has Vista and isn't working as well as their older XP one did.

Windows 7 didn't share that problem because by time it came out the drivers had matured.

Windows 8's problem is that it's two UIs that don't play nice together in the same place, and people who know how to use Windows 7 (or XP) don't want to learn the new one and figure out when they're going to switch back and forth. It's a blunder on Microsoft's part that the two don't play together more nicely.

That, and what moron thought moving the "shut down" button into such an obscure location was a good idea? Yes, people do in fact turn PCs off fairly regularly.

The only version I've ever seen where... (5, Interesting)

lee n. field (750817) | about a year ago | (#43640995)

I've been in the business since DOS4 and Windows 3.0 were the currently shipping versions. Windows 8 is the only version I have seen where people around you will spontaneously chime in and tell you how much they hate it. Even WinME wasn't like that.

Microsoft needs subscriptions (1)

michaelmalak (91262) | about a year ago | (#43641011)

If you're doing stuff that upsets customers, you need to change your business model to sell ($) to customers what it is they really want.

Microsoft should switch to annual subscription fees for Windows, and keep patching and supporting Windows versions indefinitely.

It's time to retire the 1980 business model of software. Viruses didn't exist in 1980.

Re:Microsoft needs subscriptions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43641157)

Serious? Time to bury Microsoft then.

Linux costs nothing, and don't have viruses in 2013. Virus vulnerability is not something computers have - it is something windows have. Only windows needs antivirus. Computers don't crash either - windows do. Computers start up in a few seconds, only windows need minutes. And so on. . .

This is not hard (2)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#43641017)

Ask any computer professional or any focus group of moderately intelligent users and you'll get the same thing. Bring back the start menu, leave the new features that are actually beneficial, dump UEFI, and ditch Tile Land. That's it. After that, it's all set to go. I'd even concede the BIOS-embedded license key because I'm sick of other repair shops than mine playing games with Windows 7 licenses to save money. 1 license = 1 motherboard and enforce that for everyone and I can accept that.

WW II Warship (2)

Dreyden (1039296) | about a year ago | (#43641121)

I think Microsoft is like a WW II giant warship. Helpless against modern warfare still takes hours or days to sink. In the meanwhile it is still a sitting duck firing big rounds against anything that moves.

Please die and don't make more damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato [wikipedia.org]

Where is "Windows Classic?" (1)

ALeader71 (687693) | about a year ago | (#43641149)

Windows 8 is not "New Coke." For this to work out as well, M$ would have to have a Pepsi-like product. On the desktop, that doesn't exist. New Coke was an attempt to re-make a flagship brand. To appeal to changing American tastes for a sweeter product. Windows 8 isn't that product. Consumers weren't clamoring for a touch screen desktop. They accepted touch on tablets and smartphones because it works on handheld devices. It doesn't work well on desktops. Look at the Windows 8 commercials. You don't see office work. You don't see email or composition. You see touch applications, and that's the point. When you buy a laptop, you expect a keyboard. You expect to type. When you buy a tablet, you expect to touch.

For this to work, Microsoft has to have a Domino's moment. Admit you were wrong, then come out with a truly well designed and well made product. I'm not seeing this happen with Blue. I hear about Blue on sites like this. I don't see M$'s corporate face on Blue. Blue feels like a politician's half-hearted admission of guilt.

I predict the business world will continue to adopt Windows 7 and skip Windows 8. If these same IT shops adopt Office 365, Windows may fall off the desktop. A web-based office automation product doesn't need expensive desktop licenses. That change could make "the year of the RHEL desktop" happen.

Train wreck (1)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about a year ago | (#43641167)

Windows 8 made to many changes to fast without the support of legacy add-ons. Forgoing my own feeling about the Windows 8 interface and window management, not including a start button or a way to add the start button back and not allowing a user to boot to the desktop were both huge mistakes.

You can try to change the way things are done but at least provide a way back to the old methods, at least for the first release of a new system, then you can go ahead and start removing features slowly. It's like getting into a cold pool, you slide in gently to make sure you don't get a shock, this is what Microsoft should of done, not a running cannon ball and later have to suck the water back out.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...