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Graphics Ubuntu X Linux

Canonical To Ship Mir Display Server In Ubuntu 13.10 122

Posted by timothy from the das-gefaellt-mir dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Canonical has announced today that they intend to ship the Mir Display Server by default in Ubuntu 13.10, rather than Ubuntu 14.04 as originally planned. They moved ahead their Mir adoption since the code is materializing and they want Mir/XMir widely tested prior to the Ubuntu 14.04 Long-Term Support release. Mir in Ubuntu 13.10 will be using the XMir X11 compatibility layer to run the Unity 7 desktop and there will be fallback support for running an X.Org Server if the graphics drivers don't support Mir."
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Canonical To Ship Mir Display Server In Ubuntu 13.10 More

Canonical To Ship Mir Display Server In Ubuntu 13.10

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  • Unity... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I wish people would stop deciding to call their new software project/product "Unity". Too many things called that now.

  • Exciting (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If everything was the same in every OS, things would be very boring.

    • Re:Exciting (Score:5, Insightful)

      by interval1066 ( 668936 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @02:14PM (#44124373) Journal

      If everything was the same in every OS, things would be very boring.

      Say I have this screwdriver that I like very much, and I use it on every flat headed screw I find. Then say the manufacturer updates the screwdriver every year, but it keeps doing what I need it to do, plus they add neat stuff like comfort grip or head lights or whatever. Still screws screws though. Great. Love it. Then one day they decide to add a phillips adapter. Ok, does it still turn flatheads? Ok. I still love my screwdriver. THEN: they decide they want it to turn tri-screws, and if you want it to turn flatheads you have to engage a little catch on the end of the handle that's hard to see and extend the flathead attachment. What the hell??!??!?? Exciting? Certainly, the excitement poors from my head as I feverously read manuals and user forums trying to figure out how to get that flathead extended as I really still just need the driver to do what it always did. Infact, I almost never encounter triscrews, AT ALL.

      This is the current state of Ubuntu.

      • Re:Exciting (Score:4, Insightful)

        by killkillkill ( 884238 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @02:34PM (#44124603)
        Maybe it's just time to update your screws. Flat head crews are a pain in the ass, you can't go fast without the screwdriver moving off center and having to stop and reposition.

        • but Canonical only offers driver for left-handed 1/4" wood screw, that can't be used for sheet metal or anchoring or in machines. that's what Unity is for people who actually want to use more than one window at once.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            How so? The multi-window management in Ubuntu is much better than it was before Unity. The tiling is nice for laying out my monitors, I like that I can alt-` to switch windows quickly within the same application, and super-w gives a nice layout overview of all my windows. I couldn't do any of those things in GNOME 2.x.

          • I've never had trouble using multiple windows in Unity?

      • Maybe if you did not buy the new screwdriver that you do not like and just keep the one you do you might not be so sad.
        If that is to simple for you I am sure you can invent another way to be unhappy.

        • Re:Exciting (Score:4, Insightful)

          by wizkid ( 13692 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @03:02PM (#44124853) Homepage

          The problem is that security holes show up in the screws. one day, instead of holding secure, they get smooth and so they have to do a security update. If they kept the same flathead design, so you could use the same damned screwdriver, then replacing the screw wouldn't be a issue. So you end up not having a choice, you have to buy the new screwdriver.

          Of course I don't have that problem. I switched to mint screws. I can still use my flat screwdriver.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I don't understand your analogy. Can you re-word it to use cars?

      • Well... ALMOST (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @03:04PM (#44124875) Journal

        The REAL story is that your flathead Ubuntu was JUST about starting to approach a state reliable usability when they released the mother off all alpha state overhauls. They did it before with the move away from config files to the registry and nautilus. With each change we went from a system we had finally managed to get working to a system that wasn't working as we wanted AND had tons of bugs too.

        It ISN'T like releasing a new screw driver THAT WORKS, it is like releasing a new screw driver that stabs you in the back and does unsanitary things with your hammer. If Ubuntu was a car, it would come with 50% new philps head screws that break off, have rusted or been installed the wrong way around through use of your semen covered hammer, 25% flathead screws that are no longer compatible with your old flathead screw and the new flathead screw isn't being developed anymore because it is going to be replaced, somewhere in 2023 and 25% of the screws have been left out because their use case is to obscure.

        Most Linux users I know aren't all that into cutting edge. Most of really just want a desktop that runs programs and then we use the programs and never ever think about the desktop again. The desktop isn't a screwdriver, it is the packaging for the belt for toolbox you never put your screwdriver and anyway, you never ever move the toolbox.

        I have all the applications I need open all the time. I do not NEED a launcher and I most certainly never EVER need to search something and then find both results from logs files, my "art" collection and amazon at the same time. I just want my desktop to provide the most basic services like paste and copy and then to GO AWAY!

        And I do NOT need a build in mail client, music player or whatever. I can fucking pick my own. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, if you made the desktop 100% reliable, safe and fast THEN you could spend your time adding crap as optional crap I would never bother with. Unity could have been a skin (nobody would have used it but hey though titties). But Ubuntu/Gnome/KDE seem to insist that anytime their products achieve "almost works" they MUST redesign.

        I am a developer, I understand the desire to not continue to work on the same old same old, that doing that last 10% of making something really work takes 90% of the time and that that time sucks donkey balls. But that is life.

        All Unity and Gnome3 and KDE have shown is that it doesn't take Ballmer and closed source to give the user what they don't want. Good job! You can compete with MS and release as big a turds as them.

        And at least Windows 8.1 is adding the start button again.

        Aaaah, that felt good.

        • Title actually applies to your post. Well... almost: Windows 8.1 may be adding a "Start Button" but not the "Start Menu", which is what people were actually asking for. All they're doing is giving you something visual to click on to get to that Metro Start Splash Page Thingy, instead of having to know to mysteriously mouse off the screen in the bottom left and click. Past that, you have a reasonable point.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Domini ( 103836 )

          Could not have said it better. In Ubuntu I start up 3 programs max. Chrome, VMWare Player and Terminal.
          In VMWare Player I only start up a single _desktop_ app... ever... which is why Windows 8 is so annoying.
          It is better now with Classic fallback, but even that does too much.

          On Mac I start up a few more, but don't use ANY of the mac provided apps. No iPhoto, Finder, Safari, Address Book, Mail, Messages, etc. I basically only use it because of iOS development (and the pretty hardware does not hurt).

          PS: Someo

        • All Unity and Gnome3 and KDE have shown is that it doesn't take Ballmer and closed source to give the user what they don't want. Good job! You can compete with MS and release as big a turds as them.

          I still think the fault lies with distros. They should have not forced the update, and allowed users the choice to stick with older, stable UIs. It is ok for DEs to make poor, incomplete releases. It is not ok for distros to take every release as an update no matter what the prize. They need to learn that cutting edge is not a thing every distro should do, and that testing might be a good idea.

          Redhat understands that -- cutting edge technology in one distro for testing, good releases for customers in anothe

        • "They did it before with the move away from config files to the registry and nautilus."

          The hell are you gibbering about?

      • Re:Exciting (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Aaron B Lingwood ( 1288412 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @05:34PM (#44126847)

        --snip screwdriver analogy--

        Your analogy holds true only if both projects, being Wayland and Mir, are serving the same purpose - They aren't.

        Yes, they are both a display server/protocol, and yes, they are designed to replace X, but the goals of each project couldn't be more dissimilar.

        Wayland is a long needed update to X that will fix a number of issues and allows for secure buffers that only the application and server can access. Wayland is being designed for the existing Linux desktop market and is a much needed project.

        Mir, while adopting some ideas from Wayland, is a completely different beast that will focus on achieving two primary objectives: A display server that runs natively on both desktop and mobile, and, being actively developed and supported by new commercial partner Valve. It makes little sense for Canonical to wait for Wayland and then extend it for these two purposes as doing so will leave Canonical years behind on a shift that is happening NOW. Everyone has been waiting for the Year of Linux on the Desktop; this will bring the goal one step closer. The same goes for an unadulterated Linux on the Mobile where graphical applications are more easily ported from their desktop counterparts.

        There is nothing stopping Wayland importing code from Mir and vice versa. The projects simply have different priorities for the time being and are likely to co-exist or even possibly merge when the race is over.

        To borrow from your analogy: Canonical have found a reason to require a triscrew head. They believe it will work in more environments and also, with some effort, work on systems using a hex-screw. You are not locked in to using the triscrew and don't even have to change your screwdriver head should you not be involved in porting hex-screw to tri-screw or developing tri-screws for mobile devices.

        None of this affects you. These guys are building a treehouse entirely in their own backyard. You seem a little miffed simply because you know some guys that previously built a treehouse and they are renovating it. Nonsensical.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by neuro88 ( 674248 )

          Your analogy holds true only if both projects, being Wayland and Mir, are serving the same purpose - They aren't.

          Yes, they are both a display server/protocol, and yes, they are designed to replace X, but the goals of each project couldn't be more dissimilar.

          Wayland is a long needed update to X that will fix a number of issues and allows for secure buffers that only the application and server can access. Wayland is being designed for the existing Linux desktop market and is a much needed project.

          Mir, while adopting some ideas from Wayland, is a completely different beast that will focus on achieving two primary objectives: A display server that runs natively on both desktop and mobile, and, being actively developed and supported by new commercial partner Valve. It makes little sense for Canonical to wait for Wayland and then extend it for these two purposes as doing so will leave Canonical years behind on a shift that is happening NOW.

          Wayland is absolutely being developed with mobile and desktops in mind: From the official wayland site itself (http://wayland.freedesktop.org/): "Part of the Wayland project is also the Weston reference implementation of a Wayland compositor. Weston can run as an X client or under Linux KMS and ships with a few demo clients. The Weston compositor is a minimal and fast compositor and is suitable for many embedded and mobile use cases."

          And that's just the reference compositor.

          But there's more. Work to g

  • Pushed back, not forward (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    For 13.10 and even now for 14.04, they're running everything in XMir. They actually pushed native Mir/Unity 8 BACK to 14.10.

    • Re:Pushed back, not forward (Score:4, Insightful)

      by interval1066 ( 668936 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @02:19PM (#44124447) Journal
      I've never faulted them for trying to upshelf X, infact I aplauded the effort, some parts of X are so crusty they've turned to stone. But in so doing they've made the os inconvienient. Inconvinience in a pair of trousers is one thing, inconvienience when there's money and customers on the line however? That's unforgivable.

  • A bit late! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Surely its a futile endeavour after http://science.slashdot.org/story/00/10/03/189218/mir-likely-to-be-deorbited-updated this

  • And this is the reason I've decided to leave. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by joelholdsworth ( 1095165 ) on Thursday June 27, 2013 @01:52PM (#44124105)

    Dear Ubuntu,

    I have had 6 happy years using you every day. You showed me so many things - the world of Linux I never knew. I will never forget the time we've shared.

    But you've you've changed. You're not the OS I once loved. I'm sorry to have to tell you this. I don't wish to hurt you. But I have to tell you the truth...

    I've switched to Mint.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by ron_ivi ( 607351 )
      Switched back to Debian myself.

      Ubuntu seems to have somehow turned Debian (which was stable, lightweight, flexible) into some bizzaro-world adware+bloat that only runs of a few computers.

    • Dear Ubuntu,

      I have had 6 happy years using you every day. You showed me so many things - the world of Linux I never knew. I will never forget the time we've shared.

      But you've you've changed. You're not the OS I once loved. I'm sorry to have to tell you this. I don't wish to hurt you. But I have to tell you the truth...

      I've switched to Mint.

      So what will Mint use for its display server since it is basically built on top of Ubuntu?

    • I've switched to Mint.

      LMFAO! Oh, wait, was that supposed to be serious? I mean, it's not like you're hurting Ubuntu by switching to one of the zillions of Ubuntu offshoots that lives, breathes and feeds off of Ubuntu...

      If you really want to make sure Canonical/Ubuntu get the point, switch to something that is not directly based on Ubuntu. Of course, they're like Microsoft and Apple in that they will do whatever the fuck they want anyway, but it can't hurt to take your OS "usage" counts elsewhere.

      • LMFAO! Oh, wait, was that supposed to be serious? I mean, it's not like you're hurting Ubuntu...

        Well, can't speak for anyone else but I for one am not interested in revenge on Canonical. I'm not that activist. I just need to get some work done. Perhaps you just need to lighten up on the Jolt 'n Monster nrg drinks.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • I think if what he wants is a supported operating system that's as close as possible to Ubuntu as it is now but without the newer changes he dislikes, switching to something that isn't remotely related to Ubuntu isn't going to help him.

          Maybe, maybe not--actually trying something else, he might surprise himself. Ubuntu got popular by word of mouth... same with Mint, undoubtedly because of its Ubuntu base. Think for yourself, actually give different distros a test drive, and then he can come to a conclusion as to whether Mint is truly "the" distribution for him. But I definitely see some humor in the way he was writing about Canonical/Ubuntu, and then the fact that he switches to effectively the same exact thing... just different maintai

  • I kindly disagree (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by stanlyb ( 1839382 )
    The problem is not that the complex code is "bad", but that there are many stupid developers using pretty much complex libraries and modules, and don't forget the copy/paste methodology, and the result is something that is "somehow" working, and extremely complex and hard to read. Well written and maintained code is always pleasure to read, no matter its complexity or the used libraries.
    One more thing, give an idiot a hammer, and every problem he face would look to him like a nail.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Wrong article ;) You must be using unity.

  • name your server after something that came apart, burned up, and came to watery grave.

    making yet another display server on which much superior desktops (i.e. not Unity) will be second class citizens and require a mountain of effort to maintain, will be a failure.

  • Switching to another Desktop Environment before adapting your Desktop? This just sounds like a bad idea all around.

    If your goal is to make Unity run faster, why would you switch to something that requires a compatibility layer? Heck Ubuntu, why not just write it for windows, and run the DE in WINE?

    • You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Canonical is building Mir to replace X so that it can be used in it's mobile devices. They are not putting effort into Wayland because it is licensed as MIT where Mir will be GPLv3. This is to safeguard Ubuntu mobile devices. XMir is required just as XWayland is required to bridge the transition gap. I'm not advocating Mir in any way but facts are facts.

  • Don't support leeches (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Gotta love leeches like Canonical. 99% of Ubuntu is other people's work but be damned if they can give back or work with others rather than walling off their garden.

  • I haven't kept my eye on every twist and turn in this story.
    My mental model of the stack pre all these Mir, Wayland shenanigans was this -
    applications
    window manager
    X
    kernel

    I guess a couple of layers have been added now? Wayland seems to be a replacement for X that removes the X part from the stack compressing window manager and display server into one layer, so where does Mir sit?

    • Mir alternative to Wayland. also you could put "graphics driver" next to kernel, just because it's an important piece we often have to select/configure and it sometimes makes trouble. seems "desktop" over the "window manager" might be for same reason something to add to list.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      What we really need is something like a common protocol that can talk to all these different display systems.

      It could then be supported by multiple OSes (even ones which don't have their own graphics card or drivers). Heck, we could even have it use simple TCP sockets and make it a bit higher level so it didn't just push pixels all the time -- then it would be really usable over a LAN, pretty clever huh?

      Oh yes.

  • Something that pops up a window in X11 that displays graphics using Mir protocol transactions? Maybe Mir is 10 times better to develop for than X11. What are
    the development libraries like? And how are people going to know when its "safe" to develop for Mir and abandon X11?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Marrow ( 195242 )

      What about fonts. What about 3d. What about sound? I am curious if they really want to replace X11 with something better. What about "vnc" behavior. I mean, I hope this is to support more than "user switching" on the desktop.

      • Go look at Wayland for something that has more explanation behind it.

        In general, both Wayland and Mir solve stupid X11 problems like fonts, 3D, and sound because there's no good reason for your display manager to care about those.

  • I'm all for open drivers like Noveau or the efforts by Intel and AMD, they are fantastic and very much needed. It almost makes me glad that GLES 2.0 is pretty much almost there.
    But for those of us who do 3D programming, 3D modelling or just play games on steam that requiere 3D, the only option is the binary ones. If Ubuntu (because of MIR) takes away support for them, I'll be taking Ubuntu away from my computer.

    • I imagine Canonical is hoping to undermine Wayland by getting Nvidia to provide binary drives only for Mir.

      • If Nvidia had no plans to support Wayland (which has many more people behind it than Mir does) why would they support Mir that will only work with Ubuntu?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by raxx7 ( 205260 )

        Canonical may hope, but it's naive.
        NVIDIA provides binary drivers for Linux for over a decade because it actually has paying customers, running (often expensive) 3D (and now GPGPU) applications on (often expensive) NVIDIA hardware.
        Ie, the Oak Ridge National Laboratory has the world's 2nd most powerfull supercomputers. It has hundreds of NVIDIA K20 cards and it runs Linux.

        And those customers tend to run RHEL or a clone or SUSE, because those are the supported platforms.

  • Call me a stubborn shit, but for the foreseeable future I will continue to use X Server. From what I have heard, there is no 'ssh +X' functionality in either Wayland or Mir.

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