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Microsoft Confirms Windows 8.1 Spring Update, To Focus On Non-touch Devices

timothy posted about 8 months ago | from the iteration-station dept.

Windows 172

SmartAboutThings writes "At a special event at the Mobile World Congress, Microsoft has announced the 'spring' update for Windows 8.1. Joe Belfiore, who is the head of platform at Microsoft for smartphones, tablets and desktop devices, said the Windows 8.1 update will come with improvements for non-touch devices. Belfiore also said the update will focus on bringing back some of the 'old' features to Windows 8.1, such as the much-hyped start button, but this won't have a negative impact on the touch experience."

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99% (5, Insightful)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about 8 months ago | (#46315719)

said the Windows 8.1 update will come with improvements for non-touch devices

What a fantastic strategy -- to put a few afterthoughts into 99% of their market...

Re:99% (5, Insightful)

chalkyj (927554) | about 8 months ago | (#46315757)

It'll be nice to use server 2013 without having to battle with a "touch screen optimised" interface. I guess they over estimated how many people are running server 2013 on tablets.

Re:99% (2)

inasity_rules (1110095) | about 8 months ago | (#46315805)

This is exactly why I'm running exchange on 2011. Also they killed exchange from SBS when they called it "Essentials". Wish I could ditch it, but I don't have time to rewrite all the legacy stuff that has been added.

Re:99% (1)

Stickiler (2767941) | about 8 months ago | (#46315807)

Wait, did they seriously remove Exchange from SBS 2013? Fuck me, guess I'm migrating my work servers to something else.

Re:99% (1, Informative)

inasity_rules (1110095) | about 8 months ago | (#46315849)

Pretty much... We installed it on our new server without checking first then had a "uh... wait... Where is exchange?" moment. Turns out Microsoft wants you on the cloud. Or, I dunno, you could just fork out the cash for exchange server. That is, assuming you have an unlimited amount of cash lying around.

Re:99% (-1, Redundant)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 8 months ago | (#46315899)

Wait...you did an OS upgrade on a production server without carefully vetting the upgrade? That's beyond an amateur move. It's downright idiotic.

Re:99% (3, Informative)

inasity_rules (1110095) | about 8 months ago | (#46315937)

No, I had a new server and a copy of Microsoft Server Essentials(as part of our companies Action Pack). I installed the new server for testing purposes (as one does), and discovered there was no more exchange. It was a waste of my time, yes, however at the time it didn't seem unreasonable that SBS becoming Essentials wouldn't eliminate the essential reason to get and use SBS.

Re:99% (1)

inasity_rules (1110095) | about 8 months ago | (#46315939)

*reasonable.

Re:99% (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316101)

You know what's idiotic? Assuming that that it was an UPGRADE on a PRODUCTION server, when the original poster mentioned neither of those terms. Do you do this often, just so you can attempt to talk down to people?

Re:99% (1)

Stickiler (2767941) | about 8 months ago | (#46315941)

Yeah, as a small Australian business, with Australian internet, I won't be bothering with the cloud bullshit. Guess I'll be looking for something Linux-based to supplant it.

Re:99% (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 8 months ago | (#46316141)

I suppose with the bad drought you all are having, it makes sense to avoid cloud-based solutions.

Re:99% (1)

inasity_rules (1110095) | about 8 months ago | (#46316453)

I was looking at Zimbra, which looks interesting. Unfortunately back in the early 2000s, someone at my company did all sorts of custom mailboxes and weird scripts, so until I find time(unlikely) to figure out what is going on, I'm stuck. I am only a sysadmin in my spare time...

Re:99% (1)

zacherynuk (2782105) | about 8 months ago | (#46317645)

Yup. We bought the last 6 copies we could, from our distro I can't see an alternative .

Being reliant on internet comms is still a pipe dream. Even for companies that would adopt the cloud (non of our clients who are all finance and similar)

I honestly don't know where to go in a post MS in house SBS world. It was a very good product for over a decade. It broke a little bit when outlook licences were not included in 2003. But Outlook & Exchange is what it's all about. I have found no alternative.

but we will.

Re:99% (5, Insightful)

Solandri (704621) | about 8 months ago | (#46317639)

It's really simple. The only way to install a Metro app is through Microsoft's Store. There are exceptions for developers and corporate in-house software. But for the traditional business model where Party A makes the software, Party B buys it and uses it, you can only do it by selling the software in the Store.

If you sell through the Store, Microsoft takes a 30% cut of all revenue.

That's what this is all about. Microsoft wants 30% of Adobe's, Intuit's, SAP's, Oracle's, etc's revenue. Their plan to make this happen is to get all users (including corporate ones) to use Metro apps. If the users accept it, then the developers will be forced to make Metro apps and sell it through the Store. And Microsoft gets a 30% cut. Of everything.

That's why they're forcing Metro down users' throats. That's why the "Start" button isn't really a start button but dumps you straight into Metro - it's a one-button access to where the Store is. That's why your Windows Server pushes Metro apps. It's all to get you to buy and use Metro apps, so developers will start selling Metro apps.

(And yes I realize this is Apple's walled garden model with iOS. I don't really have as much problem with it there because iOS devices are generally not productivity devices so most apps are priced $0 to $10. Not $100 to over $1000 like many Windows productivity apps. And no this is not Google's model. Yes Google takes a 30% cut of apps sold in the Play store, but they don't restrict where you get your apps from. It's easiest to get them from the Play store, but you can get them from any other store, or side-load them via microSD or USB or even directly from a website. Basically the current state of Windows software is like the Android environment where an optional store charges 30%, and Microsoft is trying to transition it to be like the iOS environment where the only store charges 30%.)

Re:99% (2)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 8 months ago | (#46317743)

I don't really have as much problem with it there because iOS devices are generally not productivity devices so most apps are priced $0 to $10. Not $100 to over $1000 like many Windows productivity apps.

Oracle, PeopleSoft and other IT software are all moving to the browser as the user inteface to construct SQL queries and run the software in the servers. They would switch to linux rather than pay 30% tax to Microsoft. Almost all the IT development could be done using the browser as the user interface. No metro needed for them.

But there are other tools that can not run in the browser. Not just the creative studio from Adobe or the video editors. The CAD/CAM software is very expensive. ANSYS High Frequency Structures Simulator or Fluent fluid mechanics solver would run into 50K or more per seat with 20K a year in maintenance. Cadence, Mentor Graphics, Synopsis, AutoDyne, Parametric, CATIA, Abacus, StarCC++ are all multi-thousand dollar per year software, You can bet none of them would ever migrate their interface to metro, nor would they pay 30% to Microsoft. I am very sure Microsoft has special deals for these vendors, because they would drop support for Windows if Microsoft plays hardball with them.

RDP from Surface (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46318041)

I guess they over estimated how many people are running server 2013 on tablets.

Microsoft may have assumed that system administrators might RDP into a server from a Surface tablet. Then Surface tablets failed to sell in the numbers that Microsoft hoped.

Re:99% (2)

petermgreen (876956) | about 8 months ago | (#46315855)

Afaict microsoft's greatest threat in recent has not been that windows would be replaced on the desktop/laptop but that computing would shift away from desktops/laptops (where they hold a near monopoly) to smartphones/tablets (where they are an also-ran).

Afaict MS thought that by forcing metro (tablet interface+forced appstore) onto desktops and laptops they could both gain a footing in the tablet market and also get some of that easy money that apple enjoys from their appstore.

Unfortunately for MS it hasn't really worked out that way. the crippled RT was largely DOA. Regular win8 on tablets has become popular with some niches but is held back by the cost and bulk of x86 hardware.

Re:99% (3, Interesting)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#46316113)

Not anymore. You can now get a full x86 tablet with 8.1 for about the same price as a Nexus. It's still not for sure how things will settle, but this might be the point at which Tablets become something more than a toy to the public at large.

It would be a delicious irony if the entry of affordable regular Windows onto Tablets became the hinge point for their mainstream acceptance. Maybe Apple will soon be forced by the market to sell an OSX tablet.

Re:99% (2)

norite (552330) | about 8 months ago | (#46316883)

Unfortunately for MS, it's too late and the damage has been done. Folks have looked for alternatives like Android, Windows 7, Chromebooks, Apple and Linux. On the desktop, win8 is a catastrophic abortion of epic proportions. Metro should have been left on tablets/phones.

Sacrificing 99% of your user base for the sake of 1% is insanity. They must man up and admit their mistakes, but as 8.1 shows. they haven't. They haven't a got a single clue.

Re:99% (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317217)

You also have to look at it from the opposite perspective, if they did nothing, the vast majority would STILL have gone away from desktops to more portable electronics and they would slowly drift away in any case. Now, they at least can decide to fix their issues if they desire, or continue their current course to irrelevancy.

Re:99% (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about 8 months ago | (#46317329)

They must man up and admit their mistakes, but as 8.1 shows. they haven't.

On the contrary, finally pushing Ballmer out was their admission that it had all gone wrong. 8.1 is just mitigation, their new direction will be decided by the new CEO, and as he's only be in place for 3 weeks, it's way too early to expect to see it publicly yet.

Don't get me wrong. MS is fucked. But it's not that they don't know it.

Re:99% (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 8 months ago | (#46317295)

Actually what happened what they realized "hey...we want to make money."

Start button? (5, Interesting)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46315749)

The article talks about the "start button" making a comeback, but it obviously did in 8.1 already. Are they actually talking about Start Menu?

Start Screen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315857)

I was confused about this as well, and double-checked the date on the article on both this and the source article page, thinking I'd somehow slipped in to a time vortex without spilling my coffee cup.

I'm guessing they're referring to Microsoft adding Power and Search options to the Start Screen, which have been sorely missed by some. I myself made a shortcuts for Shut Down and Restart.

Re:Start Screen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315885)

Why you need a Search option? Just type and it searches. Just like the old Start Menu.

Re:Start Screen (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315921)

And when you have multiple versions of the same product installed (in different directories) for testing purposes, how does seach really resolve that?
The old menu system worked perfectly in cases like this. THen there are the cases where can't remember the name of the executable and the menu system removed the need to even know it in the first place.

Re:Start Screen (3, Insightful)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316015)

And when you have multiple versions of the same product installed (in different directories) for testing purposes, how does seach really resolve that?

I've found this a bit problematic too. The search gives you no context about where the found item is. It's just like a big pool of files and program shortcuts with all the hierarchy lost. Also, as the "All Apps" view in Start Screen is incredibly clunky to use, no wonder people resort to just searching.

Re:Start Screen (1)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46315983)

Because Win+X is to hard to press?

Re:Start Screen (2)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316095)

It just shows how borked the current UI is, as people regularly have to resort to some undiscoverable secret menu to get through basic tasks.

Re:Start Screen (1)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46316261)

It probably tells you about Win+X and all the other keyboard shortcuts in one of the tutorials or other junk at first boot that I didn't watch. I also know on the start screen you can click your login name and get a menu with shutdown/restart/etc. In control panel somewhere you can also toggle additional options on/off for that menu like hibernate.

Re:Start Screen (4, Funny)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316343)

It probably tells you about Win+X and all the other keyboard shortcuts in one of the tutorials or other junk at first boot that I didn't watch.

Well, it does not. It tells you this:

"Hi. While we're getting things ready, check out the new way to use Windows. After your PC is ready, move your mouse into any corner. Let's start."

Re:Start Screen (1)

urbanriot (924981) | about 8 months ago | (#46316159)

... which is obvious to Windows users?

Yes it is hard to press Win+X via RDP (4, Informative)

mimino (1440145) | about 8 months ago | (#46316573)

Yes it is hard to press Win+X via a remote desktop connection to a server that got tablet-optimized interface with Windows Server 2012.

Re: Start Screen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317531)

GUI = Grapical User Interface.

Unless DOS is making a comeback.
Those little templates that went over the function keys where cool.

Re:Start button? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315927)

Virtual Desktops and being able to choose which monitor something launches on are what I would like.

The start screen is not really detrimental I just use it the same as always - hit windows key and type. (Same way it should be used in 7)

Other bits I used windows + x / windows + r / alt - f4.

Re:Start button? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316079)

Virtual Desktops and being able to choose which monitor something launches on are what I would like.

You might like KDE. Its window manager called KWin does both of those things.

Re:Start button? (4, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | about 8 months ago | (#46315935)

8.1 start button is just a link to the start screen.

if they really want to follow up on the ui designers bullshit line that they want to have the "power user"(someone who uses desktop, lol) interface as well.. then they have to get off their ass and do a proper start menu built in.

I use win8.1, I've seen the start screen maybe 2 weeks ago last time.. and then I was installing some unsigned drivers(for sanguinololu, and yeah.. you have to go through one step in metro to do that.. which makes no sense if you believe that the ui guys reddit comments weren't just total damage control grade A bullshit).

Re:Start button? (3, Informative)

_xeno_ (155264) | about 8 months ago | (#46315947)

Yeah, that's what I thought too, but reading the article, I think they may actually have meant the Start Button. Apparently the idea is to make it look more like the round button it is in Windows 7.

Because that's clearly the problem.

Reading other articles on the update it's clear that there are some minor fixes to using Metro with a mouse (right clicking will bring up a traditional context menu instead of bringing it up on the bottom of the screen), but the Start Menu (you know, what people actually want back) still will not be returning.

Re:Start button? (2)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46316021)

I don't really see what the big deal is. I just got a new laptop with Windows 8.1 on it. First time ever actually using Windows 8, and at first, I was disgusted by the start 'screen'... but after a VERY short while, I realized that it was basically just a full-screen start menu that let you organize things by importance (how big the tile is) and also lets you see everything at once, vs the old way of having to carefully navigate up and right and into the menu hierarchy. Do I really need to see my open windows and part of my desktop behind the start menu when I'm just clicking to start a program? Not really.

What I really STILL hate after a few days of using this laptop is how HORRIBLE the support for high-DPI screens is. This laptop is 15" with 2880x1620 pixels, and is set to 200% scaling/192 dpi. Windows OS components like mmc.exe are labeled as NOT dpi-aware in their manifest files, so you get this really stupid looking font scaling on half of the dialogs from Windows itself. Windows renders everything to an off-screen 96dpi buffer, then just scales that up 200%. The whole ClearType sub-pixel rendering is completely useless when you double all the red and blue pixel edges around fonts! Half of the programs I have installed look like complete garbage because they just don't care about supporting anything but 96dpi. Even Google Chrome suffers this horrible font issue, but luckily I prefer Firefox anyway, which is DPI-aware and renders fonts beatifically.

Re:Start button? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316103)

If you have and DVD or Blu-ray player try playing some videos on that OS :)

Re:Start button? (1)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46316269)

Nope. I have USB 3.0 ports and an SD card slot. I did install MPC-HC and watch plenty of 1080p content on that just fine. What's the issue you're getting at?

Re:Start button? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316653)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/dvd-playback-help

Re:Start button? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46318077)

So how do you turn DVDs or BDs that you've purchased, rented, or received as a gift into videos that MPC-HC can play?

Re:Start button? (5, Interesting)

_xeno_ (155264) | about 8 months ago | (#46316169)

Do I really need to see my open windows and part of my desktop behind the start menu when I'm just clicking to start a program? Not really.

Actually... yes. You do. Believe it or not.

There's a concept called "doorway amnesia" where you'll tend to "forget" what it was you're doing when your surroundings change entirely. It's why everyone has experienced walking into a room and then forgetting why they went there in the first place. By entirely replacing the desktop and changing your context, it makes it harder to remember why you opened the Start Screen in the first place.

The rest of the complaints have to do with it being slower to use than the start menu thanks in part to the transition animations. My personal annoyance is that not everything you have installed shows up there, instead they're hidden behind the down arrow. Yes, yes, you can "pin them to start" but after installing a new app, it always initially confuses me when I go looking for it and it isn't on the Start Screen.

Windows renders everything to an off-screen 96dpi buffer, then just scales that up 200%.

Does Windows do the bilinear filtering thing that the Retinal MacBooks do? I saw one running in a store, and the way it handles non-DPI aware apps is bilinearly scaling it up. Made the entire thing look very blurry.

Re:Start button? (1)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46316299)

Well you can always turn on the option to show your same desktop wallpaper behind the start screen. Might help some. I for one LOVE the fact that I don't have to manually delete all the crap extra icons programs install on the start menu like I used to on Win 7 and below. I can just leave all the garbage in the down-arrow screen and type-to-search the few things I want, and pin just those to the main screen. Once you remove all the junk on the start screen that came there by default, you can easily get a screen that doesn't even need to scroll sideways and fit all the commonly used icons there, neatly organized.

There does not appear to be any filtering at all, at least not at 200% where it can just double up the pixels with ease. It might filter at 125% or 150%, I don't know. Here is a screenshot where I put arrows pointing at good and bad font rendering on a few screens of common OS things: http://ark42.com/win8.1/192dpi... [ark42.com]

Re:Start button? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317141)

Once you remove all the junk on the start screen that came there by default, you can easily get a screen that doesn't even need to scroll sideways and fit all the commonly used icons there, neatly organized.

So it's like the desktop?

Re:Start button? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317311)

>There's a concept called "doorway amnesia"

[citation needed}

Seriously, try googling for the term "doorway amnesia". The closest thing to a mainstream reference that comes up is a mention in Scientific American of some random professor's research, which means that it's most probably unproven at this stage.

Re:Start button? (2)

evilad (87480) | about 8 months ago | (#46316205)

The worst thing about the hiDPI support is that they clearly *thought* about multi-monitor mixed-DPI support, and then utterly failed in execution. The "let me choose different DPIs for different screens" is so horribly broken that I can't even tell how it's supposed to work.

Re:Start button? (2)

Ark42 (522144) | about 8 months ago | (#46316333)

Apps have to opt-in to being able to support that via a new manifest setting. Older apps, even ones that declare them selves DPI-aware, will just get the setting of the monitor that they open up on, then scale pixels if you drag the window to a different screen. Newer apps can now add a new per-screen-DPI-aware manifest setting, and then listen to some API calls to rescale themselves when needed I guess. Seems like a lot of work for corner cases for most people really, compared to, you know, having one programmer at Microsoft make mmc.exe at least regular DPI-aware?

Re:Start button? (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about 8 months ago | (#46316239)

The article talks about the "start button" making a comeback, but it obviously did in 8.1 already. Are they actually talking about Start Menu?

There's always a workaround...

http://www.howtogeek.com/12769... [howtogeek.com]

http://www.howtogeek.com/10771... [howtogeek.com]

Re:Start button? (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316377)

I have been surprised how well Classic Shell integrates to Win8. After installation, it feels like a core component of Windows. No taped-on feeling or anything.

I wonder how it "taps on" to the Start Button click? One might think that it's quite tricky to intercept something like that.

Re:Start button? (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about 8 months ago | (#46316507)

There is a forum section link on Classic Shell's home page here... http://www.classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net]

All windows versions have always been a pain to use in one way or another. Win8 with ClassicShell installed works fine for me, though I'm not a 'power user'.

Re:Start button? (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about 8 months ago | (#46316809)

... and here's a link to HTG's page listing every one of it's "Win8 tips & tricks" articles...

http://www.howtogeek.com/tag/w... [howtogeek.com]

I touch my device... (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 8 months ago | (#46315797)

...as little as possible. What's up with this obsession to play with every second of every day anyway?

Spring? (1, Insightful)

rossdee (243626) | about 8 months ago | (#46315817)

The time of spring varies in different parts of the world. Where I was brought up, spring was in late September or early October, and where I live now its in May.

Re:Spring? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315837)

My dick springs to action every time I see your moms fetid gash dripping in front of me. Her hairy slot begging for my gummy cock!

Best use for Windows 8.. (4, Insightful)

GrBear (63712) | about 8 months ago | (#46315827)

The best use of a Windows 8 license is to downgrade to Windows 7.

Re:Best use for Windows 8.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315913)

> The best use of a Windows 8 license is to downgrade to Windows 7.

But can I downgrade from Slashdot beta?

Re:Best use for Windows 8.. (1)

Lifyre (960576) | about 8 months ago | (#46315959)

I believe they call that Reddit these days.

Re:Best use for Windows 8.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316125)

Reddit is more like a downgrade from Heaven to Hell.

Reddit is more of an upgrade (1)

mimino (1440145) | about 8 months ago | (#46316577)

Reddit is more of an upgrade

Re:Best use for Windows 8.. (1)

fermion (181285) | about 8 months ago | (#46316215)

will come with improvements for non-touch devices

I thought this meant that user would be able to boot to a Windows 7 type interface. That is about the only way to improve the user experience. Apple made the same mistake. In trying to make their office productivity suite work on the iPad, they destroyed many useful features. The also killed compatibility between file format as MS did in the late 90's.

In a profit driven world, the changes are going to follow the perceived direction of the market. For MS, who still makes most of it's money from corporate clients, the rush toward mobile computers and Metro makes little sense. I don't know why they did not make a decision to create a fork, like they did with NT, and keep two operating systems in the market.

Re:Best use for Windows 8.. (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 8 months ago | (#46316363)

Could even say upgrade to Windows 7. Just as Windows XP was an ease-of-use and performance upgrade over Vista.

It's simple: provide a choice (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315843)

You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)". Throw the switch to the latter option and you get something that approximates the Windows 7 UI. You could even call it "Classic" mode, like has been done for the last 2 versions of Windows. Nobody liked the default Windows XP "Playschool" theme. Many people didn't like the default Windows 7 theme. They were no big deal. Make it easy for users to choose, and people will complain a lot less about the defaults. Give them no choice and, yeah, they're going to complain bitterly (Windows 8), until third-parties step in to fix the problem (e.g., Classic Shell).

Stick an "Advanced" button in there to allow tweaking of individual features.

Microsoft is the last one I would have thought needed to be schooled about the value of choice, but they made the same mistake with the recent versions of Office. Experiment, but please have some respect for what users of your product have already learned.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316065)

Your comments are spot on. As far as the choice thing and your thought that Microsoft shouldn't have had to be schooled on choice being important - remember what they are doing here. They are trying to learn from Apple about how to get insane market share for tablets (as they see the desktop / full notebook becoming a smaller and smaller niche). What did they learn from Apple? They learned that users will accept not having a choice. Look at how Apple does it. Can't switch the on-screen keyboard out with a replacement, can't switch the default browser. Everywhere you go on iOS you find a lack of choice. That's what Microsoft learned. They are starting to realize that their legacy base are the only ones who will bother to try their new OS and that their base wants choice. Big oops on them.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316075)

You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)".

This is probably something that is going to happen soon. It's bound to.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (2)

michrech (468134) | about 8 months ago | (#46316251)

You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)".

This is probably something that is going to happen soon. It's bound to.

It's something that *should have been there from the Start*.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (0)

tuxrulz (853366) | about 8 months ago | (#46316801)

Omg, this is really archaic. I remember a PC-BSD forum discussion like 3 years ago, around the development of their 2nd release if I'm correct, where they where discussing about a feature that was different on laptops and desktops, and where looking at ways to automate that detection, instead of showing a button.

If at the end, they succeeded on that, is shameful MS with all it's resources can't find a sensible automatic detection approach.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (1)

tuxrulz (853366) | about 8 months ago | (#46316825)

btw, the switch should be there in case someone wants to turn it on or off at will, but at install time touch UI should be automatically detected

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317703)

Remember to right mouse click the Start button to get to the real Win 8.x Control Panel. Metro setup sucks balls.

Re:It's simple: provide a choice (1)

purpledinoz (573045) | about 8 months ago | (#46317801)

Don't you see that Microsoft is secretly helping us prevent degenerative brain diseases? Forcing us to learn a new UI is like learning a new language, which is correlated with better brain health. Thank you Microsoft! I bet their next step is to randomly move buttons around after every boot. Now that would be a great workout for the brain!

too late, Microsoft (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315873)

I moved to KDE on Debian and haven't looked back.

You are hemorrhaging users to phones, tablets, OSX, gamers to game consoles, power users to Linux.... pretty much everything that isn't Windows. We told you people were only using Windows because there was no choice, but you failed to listen and use the chance to improve your technology. Now, it's too late. There are other choices, and people are moving to them. To quote B5:

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Re: too late, Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316041)

Agreed. I've been a long term Windows-only user but decided to replace my aging core2duo laptop with a MacBook Pro solely because Microsoft offended me with Windows 8.

I haven't looked back since.

Re: too late, Microsoft (3, Interesting)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#46316147)

My wife bought a new Windows 8.1 laptop yesterday. I got a new 8.1. tablet last week.

We looked at the abandoned aisle for the Apple stuff at Frys. There wasn't anybody there at all. The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.

Re: too late, Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316179)

The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.

... and that's why Apple is the world's largest technology company taking in 37.5B per year, with a market cap greater than any other publicly traded company on earth, and Microsoft is fading fast.

Re: too late, Microsoft (1)

michrech (468134) | about 8 months ago | (#46316273)

The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.

... and that's why Apple is the world's largest technology company taking in 37.5B per year, with a market cap greater than any other publicly traded company on earth, and Microsoft is fading fast.

It's unfortunate that Apple won't release numbers broken down by product, but it is my belief that the majority of that 37.5B is for portable devices, with their computer side being a fraction of that (probably a healthy fraction, but a fraction none-the-less).

Re: too late, Microsoft (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316221)

That's because Apple people buy their products from an Apple.com or a real Apple store.

Re: too late, Microsoft (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#46316225)

And other faerie tales MS devotees tell themselves.

Re: too late, Microsoft (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316515)

no they weren't

Lying on the net is easy.

Re: too late, Microsoft (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 8 months ago | (#46316629)

could it be you live in a weird place and are both weirdos? 8D

Apple and Android products flying off the shelves at stores around me, Windows 8 hardware not moving much

Just make the damn thing work. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317383)

For over 2 decades I have been the loving husband and help desk for a typical 'Just make the damn thing work' user who buys hardware and uses whatever OS came with it. When she moved from XP to Vista SHE LIKED IT! The Win8.1 laptop I got her for Christmas is the most frustrating computer she has ever used. She has to learn new ways of doing all the basic day-to-day tasks and the changes aren't always obvious of intuitive. For the first time in her computing history I am teaching her keyboard shortcuts because that is the only way I can figure out how to make 8.1 behave.

For her next computer I may just swallow my pride and prejudice and get her a computer that just plain works out of the box; an Apple.

Re: too late, Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317413)

That's not my experience in New York, London, Paris, or Tokyo.

Maybe in Shitsville Wyoming people are buying Windows desktops/laptops/notebooks/tablets/mobiles, I dunno.

Re: too late, Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317429)

What is Frys?

Re:too late, Microsoft (1)

CRC'99 (96526) | about 8 months ago | (#46316643)

I moved to KDE on Debian and haven't looked back.

You are hemorrhaging users to phones, tablets, OSX, gamers to game consoles, power users to Linux.... pretty much everything that isn't Windows. We told you people were only using Windows because there was no choice, but you failed to listen and use the chance to improve your technology. Now, it's too late. There are other choices, and people are moving to them. To quote B5:

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

In a way, I agree - but I can't say that I like KDE or Gnome 3. I ended up settling on XFCE using Fedora 20. It boots fast, everything works as it should (except a PCI DVB card - but I already had a spare USB one that works fine).

Thunderbird for email, Chrome for web browsing, terminal, Steam for my TF2 fix, and it all 'just works' - especially now the open source radeon driver does dynamic power management correctly.

I'm just in the middle of purchasing a new laptop - and the first thing that will happen is it be formatted and Fedora 20 get installed. I've also moved away from Google for contacts / calendar sync and now using OwnCloud (private stuff ftw!), and Dropbox is also replaced by OwnCloud. I'm finally getting to have a say in my OS and data security!

binformative cumcum (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315881)

SOMETHING THAT YOU bad for *BSD. As postsN. Due to the to avoid so as to give BSD credit stupid. to the decentralized members' creative Sales and so on,

Windows is for Grandpas (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46315919)

I'm surprised people still write articles about Windows, not to mention, using it.
It is so 80' s
So many better choices out there.

Re:Windows is for Grandpas (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316053)

It's not that obvious. If we look past the recent Start Screen silliness, the NT 6 core has made Windows a fine OS in general.

Re:Windows is for Grandpas (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316163)

its a horrid os with dll madness an registry shit hole on top of that its a resource hog - and you need permission from vendor to run it

Re:Windows is for Grandpas (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316201)

True.

Who cares. Windows is obsolete anyway. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316123)

Who cares. Windows is obsolete anyway.

Doubt it will impress many (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316143)

So far my hopes for a more traditional improvement in Windows 8 has not happened. I have pretty much lost hope that the next incremental installment will satisfy.
To be honest I don't mind Windows 8 in classic mode, but then again I have that in Windows 7. So why spend $120 to upgrade to get apps I don't even care
to use on a PC? This is really the issue with Windows 8 and PC users. Nobody really cares about touch screens or duel user interfaces trying to mix tablet preferred Modern desktop with traditional classic desktop. Tablet users will prefer Apps and PC users classic programs. Stands to reason Microsoft could have simply defaulted Windows 8 to a classic desktop UI and tablets to a Modern desktop. I bought my wife a Surface RT which works very well with apps and is terrible with Office in classic mode. My wife a big user of Office finds it so handicapped on a tablet its just not worth it. Touch screens are not nearly as precise to input things which is why we have full screen apps and big tiles and buttons. Stands to reason, they require bigger input areas. PC's on the other hand consider tiles and full screen apps a waste of good space. So for me Microsoft either needs to dramatically reverse itself on the duel UI of Windows 8 soon. Or risk alienating all of Windows users into staying with Windows 7.

Belfiore is a used car salesman so belive him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316153)

as you would any other used car salesman! Nothing the dude has ever said turned out to be the truth!

Much-hyped start button? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316303)

How is a 19 year old square on the screen that was removed due to the absolute retardation of Ballmer and company a much hyped new feature? Can they accept it's too little too late for Win 8?

A peek at Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316535)

If you want a closer look on what's happening at Microsoft, check the upcoming Build Conference [buildwindows.com] and the stuff at MSDN Channel 9 [msdn.com] .

Re:A peek at Microsoft (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 8 months ago | (#46316619)

and if you don't give a shit and have moved on to better alternatives, don't

Re:A peek at Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46317447)

Thanks, Captain Obvious. ;)

Will someone get fired? (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 8 months ago | (#46316687)

I guess they're giving up on their Unified Experience of Terrible.

Re:Will someone get fired? (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46317455)

Ballmer and Larson-Green were at control when those decisions were originally made. No big shots to fire anymore.

Microsoft will do well in non-touch devices. (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 8 months ago | (#46317673)

I am very very sure Microsoft will do very well with the non-touch devices. Who can even hold a candle to Microsoft when it comes to being out of touch with its customers?
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