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Enlightenment E19 To Have Full Wayland Support

Unknown Lamer posted about 5 months ago | from the brushed-metal dept.

Enlightenment 140

An anonymous reader writes "Full Wayland support has been added to Enlightenment 0.19. Building upon earlier Wayland support, Enlightenment can now act as its own Wayland compositor by communicating directly with the kernel's DRM drivers instead of having to rely upon Weston. The Wayland support is still considered experimental but it's now the first Linux desktop with full Wayland support." Quick README on building and using it.

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DRM drivers? (1, Insightful)

Megane (129182) | about 5 months ago | (#46523909)

Oh great, another acronym overload. The first thing I thought of was Digital Restrictions Management drivers, which was plausible because stuff that plays the crap that comes from Hollywood usually wants to be paranoid about DRM. Do we really have to overload this acronym with something related to screen display?

Re:DRM drivers? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46523945)

"Direct Rendering Manager" has existed for something like a decade already.

Re:DRM drivers? (3, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 5 months ago | (#46525967)

I'm still running Enlightenment DR .9 compiled on Irix 6.3. Can somebody on this forum help me with fixing dependency problems using XMKMF that prevent me from going to Irix 6.5?

Also, Windowmaker docklets are not always updating when rendered. Is this a libpng problem or Enlightenment? I emailed Mandrake, but no response.

Re:DRM drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46526159)

I'm trying to figure out if this is just a wierd nerdy request or brilliant satire.

Re:DRM drivers? (3, Informative)

risom (1400035) | about 5 months ago | (#46523947)

If I'm not mistaken the Direct Rendering Manager is 8 years older: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wik... [freedesktop.org] - you have to blame Hollywood for that :)

Re:DRM drivers? (2)

ProzacPatient (915544) | about 5 months ago | (#46524179)

If only we had something like an abbreviation tag [mozilla.org] or something to prevent these confusions!
Unfortunately some parts of the HTML standard are so underused many people don't know they exist except for people who write things like accessible compliant pages.

Re:DRM drivers? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 5 months ago | (#46524555)

Even without accessibility... who has ever used the dl/dt/dd tags?

Re: DRM drivers? (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 5 months ago | (#46524311)

And fully supported means experimental?

Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API? (1)

Viol8 (599362) | about 5 months ago | (#46523927)

The main wayland API docs are pretty meh and any others I can find are also not great. Does anyone know of a site gives proper C/C++ examples akin to the venerable Xlib Programming Manual?

Re:Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API (3, Informative)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | about 5 months ago | (#46524415)

Yes, the example is called Weston.

Re:Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API (2, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | about 5 months ago | (#46524529)

Oh right. So if I wanted a decent reference guide for the unix system APIs you'd tell me to go and read the linux source code instead of getting hold of a copy of Stevens?

@rsehole.

Re:Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API (2)

TheCycoONE (913189) | about 5 months ago | (#46525007)

He's not telling you to read the linux source code, he's telling you to read the "Reference" compositor. i.e. it is meant to be the example code.

Re:Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525535)

reference code != reference documentation

Re:Offtopic: Are there any decent docs for the API (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524723)

Never. Going. To Happen. Not with the current crowd...

LOL, e19 might take until 2019 to be written :) if (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46523929)

e17 took almost 10 years? or just 6? :P

Re:LOL, e19 might take until 2019 to be written :) (5, Insightful)

raster (13531) | about 5 months ago | (#46524045)

enjoy your lols. e17 -> e18 took 12 months. it's been about 4 months since e18.

Re:LOL, e19 might take until 2019 to be written :) (1)

Barefoot Monkey (1657313) | about 5 months ago | (#46524303)

12 years, in fact. But E18 was only 1 year. I doubt they are eager to do another ground-up project like E17 any time soon, so E19 may well be ready in a reasonable time like E18 was.

that would be cool, since both unity & gnome s (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524763)

these days, like most high end users we are fleeing gnome/unity/kde (tho kde is still my choice for non-lightweight) to use e17 or xfce or lxde etc

i do admit that e17 hits many sweet notes of art :)

RBOS (4, Informative)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524031)

There is also a Wayland distro called Rebecca Black OS [sourceforge.net] . Although when I tested it last time, it was super glitchy and crashed all the time. It has been recently updated so it might be worth another shot.

Anyway, great to see the Wayland stuff rolling in.

Re:RBOS (2, Funny)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 5 months ago | (#46524133)

I hear the sound is pretty awful on that one.

Re:RBOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524329)

Especially if you use it on a Friday Friday Friday Friday

Re:RBOS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524523)

Nice try, but something like "Sounds aweful." would've been better.
Now it's just too obvious you're trying to be funny, and 'the sound is awful on something' isn't exactly proper English.

Re:RBOS (2)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524419)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that there is also Maui Project [maui-project.org] .

Enlightenment is a toy system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524059)

E developers apparently never have to remotely access anything. Gee.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524203)

The X11 remote support is used by a relatively small amount of people. Getting a fast and smooth local desktop is much more important.

Re: Enlightenment is a toy system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524977)

The X11 remote support is used by a relatively small amount of people.

wha???

Re: Enlightenment is a toy system (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525151)

Most people only ever use X11 as a client and server on the same machine. You're living inside a bubble to think otherwise.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (2)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46525269)

For phones and tablets yes - hence Mr Stone's involvement in Wayland, for other stuff such as science and engineering workstations remote display support is still the killer app. Supporting "that app from 1996" that Mr Stone makes so much fun of is often the entire reason for the choice of windowing system.
So while it's a "relatively small amount of people" it's probably the majority of people using linux desktops in an office environment. That's far too important a niche to abandon IMHO.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46526053)

I assume you have usage statistics proving your assertion. Otherwise you are just considering your own usage and think it represents everyone.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (0)

PenisLands (930247) | about 5 months ago | (#46524363)

Hahah. Get your COCK into it right now. Big PENIS.

Re: Enlightenment is a toy system (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524625)

My big cock gave your mother enlightenment.

Oh wait, what was this article about again?

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (2)

DrXym (126579) | about 5 months ago | (#46524951)

Wayland is a protocol for client apps to talk with a compositor. The compositor can offer remoting if it wants to and indeed Weston does.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (2)

unixisc (2429386) | about 5 months ago | (#46525067)

One thing I've never understood. I understand the utility of KDE and GNOME (at least GNOME 2). If one wants something like the old NEXTSTEP, there are GNUSTEP DEs like Etoille or Window Managers, like WindowMaker. I can understand people using those. I can even understand people disgusted w/ recent trends w/ GNOME 3 or Unity going for XFCE, Cinnamon,, LXDE/Razor-qt.

What I'm not getting - what does Enlightenment offer that the others don't do better?

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (3, Interesting)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46525351)

What I'm not getting - what does Enlightenment offer that the others don't do better?

Cool window decorations [penguinpetes.com] !

There are some nice and clean themes for KDE/GNOME, but the theming system in both seems a bit lacking in flexibility. All the themes look kind of the same but with different colors.

Back in 1999 Linux desktops were horrible mismashes of different widgets and applications that didn't fit together, but the window title bars had beautiful pixel art vines running on them and stuff like that. That was fun, I miss those parts.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (1)

callmetheraven (711291) | about 5 months ago | (#46526073)

That was fun,

turning a super-stodgy old HP-VUE desktop into wild ornate Giger nightmare with rust holes in the window frames. Too bad it was so unstable. What was that, 15 years ago, and it's now on 0.19? Good times in the server room. Wish I had a mod point for you today.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (2)

klevin (11545) | about 5 months ago | (#46526137)

E does what I tell it to do and gets the heck out of the way otherwise. That's something that Gnome and, to a lesser extent, KDE seem to have a real problem with. As far as XFCE, LXDE et al, dunno. I've used Enlightenment off and on for rather a long time, and haven't found it necessary to spend much time with the other lightweight desktop options.

Re:Enlightenment is a toy system (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525419)

If I ever need to access the graphical user interface of a remote machine and I can not use VNC, then I will write a patch for the application I would like to manage to accept text commands. If that doesn't work, I will set up a script that screenshots the user interface, mails it in BMP format to my outlook folder, then I will mail back mouse coordinates and clicks. I will do that before either using X11 or implementing X11. It's a matter of software architectual principles.

This is a shame (-1, Offtopic)

DaMattster (977781) | about 5 months ago | (#46524083)

It just goes to show that corporations will go at huge lengths to not fix shitty products and using the legal system to protect their own marketing efforts. I believe the 1980s predictions of the corporations governing the world are coming true. It's sad.

Re:This is a shame (1)

malkavian (9512) | about 5 months ago | (#46524141)

Think you're confusing the acronym.. DRM in this context is Direct Rendering Manager.

Re:This is a shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525077)

This is a good test of whether you should be reading this thread. If you don't realize that DRM in this context is "Direct Rendering Manager", then this thread is way too technical for you, in fact probably the entire site is.

E19? (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 5 months ago | (#46524121)

I'm sticking with E17 [wikipedia.org] .

0.19 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524145)

I love how the Enlightenment project is still at version 0 :)

EPIC!

Re:0.19 (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524255)

I do not understand why open source projects are so eager to stay on 0.x version numbers even when the software is perfectly usable and polished. It just unnecessarily gives them an image of an unfinished or beta quality software. E17 could as well be 17.0 instead of 0.17, and for a while E19 could be "19.0 beta".

Re:0.19 (1)

Megane (129182) | about 5 months ago | (#46524403)

What's always fun is when they get to 0.99 then have to go to 0.100 or 0.991. It's the exact opposite of the way Chrome and Firefox version numbers work by incrementing the major version number multiple times a year. (IMHO, FF should have gone with YY.0 to YY.3 using the current year and quarter, and the version number was about right when they started doing that.)

Re:0.19 (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524477)

Agreed, YY.M would work great for Chrome and Firefox, as they both are mostly about incrementally improving the browser.

Re:0.19 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525111)

It's because of juvenile bad taste, like hacker pseudonyms.
Version numbering is not the only reason, although having a version number is bad taste on its own. The name "englightenment" by itself is awful. About 17 years ago I was thinking... how on earth will I be able to find this project on altavista without typing: enlightenment +"WINDOW MANAGER"?
I must write Enlightenment WINDOW MANAGER or else I will find something else, how ridicolous is that? How far did they think this through? Did you find enlightenment or not? HA! What a joke to tell for a decade or two. It's awful bad taste.

It's as if you named the Empire State BUILDING to "Kundalini, Safety inspection Feb. 2014 by George S., hitatchi elevators". Makes no sense at all and who the fuck is George anyway, no architect would put a turd as a hat on their head like that.

Don't get me started on K and G fantasy names, hate those too.

Can you explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524151)

Can somebody explain please, for those who've been under a rock like me, what this wayland exactly is, what's its place is in the system architecture, and why it's so different/better/newer than traditional x-server+window manager yet apparently so hard to interface with.

Re:Can you explain (0)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 5 months ago | (#46524281)

No

Re:Can you explain (3, Informative)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524297)

It allows more direct access to application framebuffers, prevents tearing and, allows booting to a graphics mode early on and from there a smooth transition to desktop. As a downside, it does not allow applications to be displayed on a remote desktop and for example VNC has to be used instead.

Re:Can you explain (2)

Microlith (54737) | about 5 months ago | (#46524359)

it does not allow applications to be displayed on a remote desktop and for example VNC has to be used instead.

This isn't necessarily true. It simply does not provide a method for remoting of applications. However, given Wayland's nature it's likely that any remote Wayland solution will be more efficient than VNC and even X forwarding, rather than less.

Re:Can you explain (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524389)

I haven't heard of any remote Wayland solution coming.

Re:Can you explain (4, Informative)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about 5 months ago | (#46524475)

Re:Can you explain (2)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#46524571)

Interesting. Then the people complaining about Wayland missing remote support should actually be fine? RDP seems to be able to forward windows of individual applications.

Re:Can you explain (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525073)

No, the people complaining about Wayland missing remote support know about this.

They're complaining because Wayland doesn't have the correct type of remote support. They'd much prefer it if their display server was responsible for drawing every widget (of every toolkit (used by every app)) primative-by-primative, instruction-by-instruction.

You know, because they're retarded.

Re:Can you explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525337)

Note, they are still retarded. That's why they are so awkward now, not able to openly admit they've been howling for decades how great X11 is. Hahaha!

Re:Can you explain (2)

DrXym (126579) | about 5 months ago | (#46525051)

Weston has support for RDP. i.e. you establish a remote session to it via a RDP client and you see your apps. RDP has a seamless mode though I don't know if the compositor supports that although it could in theory.

Re:Can you explain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524495)

>However, given Wayland's nature it's likely that any remote Wayland solution will be more efficient than VNC and even X forwarding, rather than less.

Today's remote solution sucks total ass, though.

I'm sure it will get better, but it's an unfortunate way to market the product:

"We do what the competition does not so great even worse! However, it will get better soon!"

I was strongly against wayland at first, but listening to the wayland guys speak they changed my mind. I'm no longer strongly against it, I'm just very worried that they are doing the same thing X11 did: Roll out a solution that has some great ideas and hope people will come running to fix the giant gaping holes.

VNC is equivalent to X11s various drawing functions, and even printer video display driver (seriously) that the wayland guys hate so much. It's old, bad, and busted. They should have at least used NX!

Re:Can you explain (1)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about 5 months ago | (#46524435)

As a downside, it does not allow applications to be displayed on a remote desktop and for example VNC has to be used instead.

The use of a vaguely VNC-like protocol optimized for forwarding compressed video over a network rather than the X11 protocol optimized for primitive drawing operations very few applications actually use is not a downside. If you prefer, think of it as X11 as it's actually used by modern applications (a series of pixmaps), but with compression and fewer latency-sensitive round-trips. Or even better, like xpra [xpra.org] with fewer rough edges.

Re:Can you explain (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46525153)

This again? If your quote is taken from Mr Stone you'd best be informed that things such as openoffice/libreoffice does not fit into the class of "modern applications". It means the gnome3 cutting edge and not earlier gtk, qt and all the rest.

Re:Can you explain (0)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about 5 months ago | (#46525373)

Like I said, modern applications. That means applications designed for modern computers, not just ones written recently. Sure, you can stick to X11 primitives provided you don't care about performance or power consumption or your UI looking like it dates back to the 90s. Apps written for X11 will continue to work using the same network protocols they've always used via XWayland, inefficiently emulating ancient hardware. However, programs written with modern graphics subsystems in mind will benefit from the remoting approach taken by Wayland.

Re:Can you explain (1)

DrXym (126579) | about 5 months ago | (#46525005)

It's a way for client applications to connect to a display, receive input events, and render into surfaces without using X11. The surfaces are rendered via a compositor which could push the result out to the screen or remotely. It's less complex, context switching and data duplication than X11 so it should be more efficient and yield a better desktop experience.

Huh? (1)

Dan East (318230) | about 5 months ago | (#46524183)

I have absolutely no idea what the summary is talking about, but I did recognize the word "Linux" at least. And "DRM", but apparently it's not that DRM.

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524377)

Consider returning your geek card to the lobby. ;)

Re:Huh? (2, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 5 months ago | (#46524881)

Enlightenment - an early X11 proto-DE famous for its Hollywood style UI in the late nineties that kinda died because development went into a black hole for several years, Duke Nukem style, with version 17. Ironically, considered in the 1990s to be an example of bloated style-over-substance engineering, the delay with the release of E17 resulted in it being considered a highly efficient lightweight system when it was finally released.

E19 - The next version of Enlightenment, one assumes.

Wayland - an attempt to create a "lightweight" graphics layer for Linux to use in place of X11. Extremely popular amongst X11 devs, but widely derided as unwanted, unasked for, and unsuitable as an X11 replacement (not to mention likely to end up with more problems than X11), by GNU/Linux users. Only gaining steam because some idiots at Canonical decided to create a rival project, Mir, which means suddenly the choice between X11 and Wayland has been turned into a fight between Mir and Wayland, like the GNOME 2 vs GNOME 3 thing became GNOME 3 vs Unity.

DRM - a Linux kernel subsystem that's used by various GNU/Linux userspace apps to access the graphics card. Usually applications proxy their access via X11 and OpenGL. In theory, the closer you get to DRM, the more efficient your use of the graphics card becomes, or something.

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524895)

Are you sure you're at the right website and not the one down the hall?

Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about 5 months ago | (#46524223)

I have no, zero, nada idea what's being discussed here. Am I the only un-enlightened person on /. and it has been the latest craze and buzz and just I'm so far out of the loop that I have never ever heard of it?

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 5 months ago | (#46524259)

I have no idea either, but I did notice that it seems like every single release of Enlightenment makes the front page for whatever reason.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524617)

The reason is that Enlightenment was awesome in the late 1990s -- a window manager you could do beautiful things with. Then it hibernated forever as Rasterman, it's lead developer, did years of meditation on how to refactor the code. The refactoring, amazingly, actually did happen and the project sped up again and started doing regular releases. If you still visit /. because it was cool in 1998 and still think of Ubuntu as some sort of recent Linux upstart, then the chances are good you'll be interested in Enlightenment.

Short, wildly inaccurate version: it's the IPv6 of Linux desktops.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 5 months ago | (#46525027)

IPv6 is a version that the Internet Protocol has to adapt - sooner or later - to succeed IPv4. That's hardly true about Enlightenment vis a vis KDE, GNOME, GNUSTEP, XFCE, LXDE/Razor-qt, Unity, Cinnamon, et al

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

DrXym (126579) | about 5 months ago | (#46525295)

Red Hat used to ship with Enlightenment (and employ its author) but dumped it for GNOME and Sawmill IIRC. Red Hat wanted a more conservative and familiar desktop experience and E wasn't delivering on that.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46525123)

Rob Malda did some stuff with Enlightenment (a couple of themes and the really cool ePlus monitoring application) before starting slashdot so every single release of Enlightenment makes the front page.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524317)

I think you need to have been around slashdot since the late 90's (to remember the enthusiasm for Enlightenment) and be following the "Wayland might replace X" and "What on earth is ubuntu doing with MIR?" memes of late.

I say you can keep your card. :)

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (2)

Microlith (54737) | about 5 months ago | (#46524335)

No, it seems that half of the people reading this article crawled out from under a rock in the last couple weeks.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

swillden (191260) | about 5 months ago | (#46524851)

I have no, zero, nada idea what's being discussed here. Am I the only un-enlightened person on /. and it has been the latest craze and buzz and just I'm so far out of the loop that I have never ever heard of it?

Latest craze and buzz? No, Enlightenment was pretty popular about the time you registered your slashdot account. Wayland has been in the works for years now, too.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

geek (5680) | about 5 months ago | (#46525701)

I have no, zero, nada idea what's being discussed here. Am I the only un-enlightened person on /. and it has been the latest craze and buzz and just I'm so far out of the loop that I have never ever heard of it?

Latest craze and buzz? No, Enlightenment was pretty popular about the time you registered your slashdot account. Wayland has been in the works for years now, too.

Enlightenment was all the rage when I register MY slashdot account. It's positively ancient and has never had any real install base. In fact its pretty much the buggiest pile of shit on earth and even trumps Google in terms of length of time in beta.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

swillden (191260) | about 5 months ago | (#46526005)

Enlightenment was all the rage when I register MY slashdot account.

Well, that was only a couple of years before Opportunist registered his.

Re:Is it time to hand in my geek card? (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about 5 months ago | (#46525853)

Yeah, way out of the loop. Maybe wayland is the latest craze, bue Enlightenment is old school. It was for a long time the year of the linux desktop hope. People here used to call linux desktops ugly. Then someone would chime in about how beautiful enlightenment was. So its kind of burned into the linux desktop nerd's memory.

Wayland has been discussed for at lest 4-5 years now.

Terminology (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 5 months ago | (#46524285)

Enlightment is one of those things which always seems great from an distance but somehow I never get around to really using. I've been playing with terminology recently and it seems pretty good (shiny effects are even smooth on my venerable eee 900).

But lots of people Ive spoken to share the same sentiment. Does anone here use it and is it any good in practice? Ultimately I'm not very sold by merely shiny things. Terminology does at least seem to be really functional.

Works for me (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46525113)

I've used it since 1997 or 98 and still have e16 with the same theme I've been using since 1999 on a new work pc. I've put a variety of things on other machines but keep coming back to e16/17 and fluxbox. There are many things better about e17, which I have at home, but I've got too comfortable with different coloured window borders meaning different things and haven't found or put together a e17 theme like the "ganymede" theme I'm used to.
The window snapshot thing is nice but even win7 has that now so it's bound to be in a few other X window managers.

Re:Terminology (1)

skaralic (676433) | about 5 months ago | (#46525267)

Yep, running it at work and at home. I have it configured with a lot of custom keybindings which make it very fast and comfortable to use. E is fast on all manner of hardware and most of my machines are older so its a good fit. When I got a brand new laptop (T530) I figured I would try the latest desktops out there including Cinnamon and Unity. They are definitely more friendly but even on a brand new, well-spec'd machine, I found them laggy and unresponsive compared to E on an older machine. Of course, I do come from a WindowMaker background so I'm used to fast desktops...

Enlightenment v19 in 2050? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524307)

Considering how long it took for them to get V17 out, will we see V19 in 2050 or 2055?

Faster and smoother than X? (1)

Flammon (4726) | about 5 months ago | (#46524507)

I'm dying to find out whether Wayland is faster and smoother than X. Anyone have any evidence?

Re:Faster and smoother than X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525779)

You'd need native apps, and there are few.

Re:Faster and smoother than X? (1)

Misagon (1135) | about 5 months ago | (#46525785)

It is designed to have much less round-trip communication between program and server which was a performance problem that plagues X.

In other cases it does not necessarily make programs more responsive, but it is designed to avoid tearing and visible redraw.

Re:Faster and smoother than X? (2)

Flammon (4726) | about 5 months ago | (#46526605)

I understand what it is designed to solve but is there any evidence on how well it solves these problems? Do you know of any videos or benchmarks pitting Wayland against X?

silliness (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524581)

foo bar is great why don't we eat bananas more and throw sticks at dogs

DRM??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524629)

No way I'm using this crap.

A little additional information would be useful (2)

RustyTheCat (2937655) | about 5 months ago | (#46524645)

I realize this is a specialized subject and that the people who are really interested in this already know what is being discussed. However, I feel your audience would be much wider if you added a short paragraph on what Enlightenment is, what Wayland is and why what you are discussing is a big deal. I'm not being sarcastic, the title is intriguing, but I don't have the time to dig through all the available resources to really understand what is being discussed. Just a suggestion.

Re:A little additional information would be useful (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46525045)

Enlightenment is the window manager that Rob Malda used to do some themes and a couple of applications for not long before he started Slashdot, so it gets mentioned a bit here.

Wayland is a display method that differs from X windows in many ways to get around situations like it being difficult to port X windows to phones and get iPhone style display performance - so it's part of the same iPhone eyecandy inspired drive that includes Windows8 etc. It's a reduced feature set based on the premise that some situations will never use some of the features of X and that client software is sometimes in a better situation to sort out what is going into a framebuffer than parts of X. It has a very vocal fan base that see a great deal of potential in it.

Re:A little additional information would be useful (1)

RustyTheCat (2937655) | about 5 months ago | (#46525991)

Thank you, that helps a great deal.

knew it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46524649)

So the X11 "trolls" where right and it took 15 years to figure it out?
If that's so, perhaps the general public, the real trolls, shouldn't mock enlightenment?

E 0.19? (1)

advocate_one (662832) | about 5 months ago | (#46524773)

WTF... look away for a few months and it skips two wole versions after having sat on 0.16 for years...

Anyway, the enlightenment website itself only mentions Enlightenment 0.17... so where the heck is this 0.19?

Re:E 0.19? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525681)

enlightenment.org shows E18 as the latest.... E19 is in development and as the README says, wayland support is alpha at this point. Full of known bugs, but targeting stability in time for the next release.

Heading off all the E haters (4, Interesting)

wjcofkc (964165) | about 5 months ago | (#46524843)

No it will not take a decade to see E19 final. Once the project started back up again, they went from E16 to E17 in one year. E18 was quickly on it's heels and now a functional beta of E19 is already out. I am on their mailing list and follow the project closely. They are developing at warp speed. To all the people who install a recent version of E, play with it for a few hours, declare it crap and purge it from their systems: you have no idea what you are missing. If Enlightenment has a problem, it is that to use it to it's full potential - which is vast - one must endure one of the, if not the, steepest learning curves of any DE out there. Once mastered, there is no GUI\DE more powerful and flexible. I am currently running Bodhi 4.2 with E 17.4 and out 16 years of using Linux and every other DE\WM that has come along over that duration, this is the greatest setup I have ever had. I have one display setup with four workspaces, each setup in it's own tiling configuration and my other display setup in a more traditional, but heavily customized way. The window tiling abilities in E are no joke and one of the primary reasons I use it. Being able to use it both ways, one on each monitor is more than I could ever ask for. Now, if all E could do right after an install was limited to what you are presented with, then yes, it would be silly. But it is up to the user, perhaps with a little Googling, forum searching, and getting the mailing list to make it do whatever your hearts content. Because of this, Enlightenment is not for everyone: power users only need apply. I keep going, but i will stop here before I get too carried away. My only gripe is the current lack of documentation for Elementary, which makes writing software for it difficult since you can only learning by studying source code, but standard tutorials are on the way.

Re:Heading off all the E haters (2)

ilsaloving (1534307) | about 5 months ago | (#46525243)

If Enlightenment has a problem, it is that to use it to it's full potential - which is vast - one must endure one of the, if not the, steepest learning curves of any DE out there.

In other words then, it will never get used. At least, not in it's current state. A new WM either needs:
-to be similar enough to a well established one that people can at least get going with it immediately
-be intuitive enough so that, even if unfamiliar, people can very quickly get up and running

From your description, not only do you have to be a power user to make it work, you have to spend a lot of precious time just trying to get familiar with it and configuring it. Which all but a very very slim minority of people will be willing to do.

Personally, I remember trying E17 (or was it E16? I forget now...) and thought even then that it was slick as greased lightning, but that was a long time ago when I had way more free time on my hands. Now? Forget it.

I look forward to when they've reached the point where they provide a good OOBE.

Re:Heading off all the E haters (1)

wjcofkc (964165) | about 5 months ago | (#46525401)

I will quote myself:

Enlightenment is not for everyone

I tell that to people all the time, encouraging many not to bother with it. It has reached enough critical mass with developers and admins that it's not going anywhere. If you take the time to mold it into what it can be, there is nothing better. I have considered drafting a proposal for a version of E that lacks much of it's current complexity while still being awesome. Past that, I am not denying it exists in a niche market. The goal of my post was to dispel common misconceptions about Enlightenment. Basically, if your going to dislike it, I want people to dislike it for the right reasons, while I lay out the reasons I like it.

Re:Heading off all the E haters (1)

xvan (2935999) | about 5 months ago | (#46525565)

one must endure one of the, if not the, steepest learning curves of any DE out there.

steeper than the awesome?

Finally! (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46524941)

Finally Wayland will start to approach what the fanboys said it was already doing two years ago!
Jabs at the very weird fanboys aside, I wish the developers the best of luck (even the one that likes to make fun of Enlightenment) and hope it goes well. We need a range of options and not "one true desktop" like some of the fanboys want.

Re:Finally! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46525457)

It's easy to be a fan of anything that replaces X.

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