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DirectX 12 Promises Lower-level Hardware Access On Multiple Platforms

Soulskill posted about 4 months ago | from the closer-to-the-metal dept.

Graphics 107

crookedvulture writes "Microsoft formally introduced its DirectX 12 API at the Game Developers Conference yesterday. This next-gen programming interface will extend across multiple platforms, from PCs to consoles to mobile devices. Like AMD's Mantle API, it promises reduced CPU overhead and lower-level access to graphics hardware. But DirectX 12 won't be limited to one vendor's hardware. Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Qualcomm have all pledged to support the API, which will apparently work on a lot of existing systems. Intel's Haswell CPUs are compatible with DirectX 12, as are multiple generations of existing AMD and Nvidia GPUs. A DirectX 12 update is also coming to the Xbox One. The first games to support the API won't arrive until the holiday season of 2015, though. A preview release is scheduled for this year." Reader edxwelch adds that OpenGL 4.4 already has functionality similar to the improvements brought by DirectX 12 and Mantle: "The announcement of DirectX 12 was a big focus of attention at GDC yesterday. The new API will bring Mantle-like low level access to the hardware, reducing the CPU overhead. The OpenGL talk 'Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL,' on the other hand, received considerably less media attention. The OpenGL camp maintains that the features to reduce CPU overhead are already present in the current version. They suggest using the extensions such as, multidraw indirect combined with bindless graphics and sparse textures, OpenGL can get the similar 'close to the metal' performance as Mantle and DirectX 12."

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Yawn (2)

DrPBacon (3044515) | about 4 months ago | (#46542951)

Raspberry Pi OpenGL is like DOS-4GW on steroids. I don't think we need you anymore, DirectX.

Re:Yawn (4, Funny)

jones_supa (887896) | about 4 months ago | (#46542971)

Indeed, Quake 3 Arena is a smokin' game.

Re:Yawn (1)

antdude (79039) | about 4 months ago | (#46546385)

More like DOOM DOS that used DOS4GW. I remember typing dos4gw.exe doom.exe or something with its prereleases. ;)

Re:Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46548729)

OpenGL is graphics library. DOS4GW is a memory extender. The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another so your analogy fails.

Let me guess... (5, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | about 4 months ago | (#46543007)

It's Window 8 only, right?

Re:Let me guess... (2)

blahbooboo (839709) | about 4 months ago | (#46543091)

Of course, how else will MS force Windows 8 on people...

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543375)

Of course, how else will MS force Windows 8 on people...

And is this "Lower-level Hardware Access On Multiple Platforms" giving the access to computer users or to the US government TLAs?

Hacked invoices show how much Microsoft charges the FBI for your information
The Syrian Electronic Army recently revealed documents that show how much Microsoft charges a secret FBI division to legally collect and view customer information. The SEA, which is known for hacking Western companies and their social media accounts, allowed The Daily Dot to analyze the emails and invoices documenting months of transactions between Microsoft's Global Criminal Compliance team and the FBI's Digital Intercept Technology Unit (DITU) before the group went public with them.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/3... [theverge.com]

Of course, Slashdot won't post this as news because they're paid not to.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543527)

Of course, Slashdot won't post this as news because they're paid not to.

You sound like someone really butt-hurt because your submissions didn't get green-lighted. Slashdot is constantly posting negative MS stories.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543649)

Slashdot is constantly posting negative MS stories.

Then why haven't they posted this one? It's all over every other tech news site.

Microsoft admits reading Hotmail inbox of blogger
Microsoft is caught up in a privacy storm after it admitted it read the Hotmail inbox of a blogger while pursuing a software leak investigation.
On Thursday, the firm acknowledged it read the anonymous blogger's emails in order to identify an employee it suspected of leaking information.

Of course they won't post it. They're paid to post Scroogling stories, not Microshaftings.

Re:Let me guess... (2)

Travis Mansbridge (830557) | about 4 months ago | (#46544203)

That's actually mentioned in the source article (http://wind8apps.com/microsoft-employee-arrest-windows-8-leaks/) from this slashdot post from yesterday (http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/20/1247232/ex-microsoft-employee-arrested-for-leaking-windows-8) covering that very story.

Re:Let me guess... (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 4 months ago | (#46543407)

DX10/11 couldn't force Vista on people. DX12 is even less likely to force Windows 8 on people.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 4 months ago | (#46543505)

Looks like gamers are happily using Windows 8 without DX12 as it is: http://store.steampowered.com/... [steampowered.com]

Re:Let me guess... (2)

i kan reed (749298) | about 4 months ago | (#46544321)

As someone whose laptop broke, and didn't own an install disc for older versions of windows for the new one:

Let me assure you that we're not happily using windows 8.

Re:Let me guess... (2)

chmod a+x mojo (965286) | about 4 months ago | (#46545383)

Dude, it's literally a 30 second download for classicshell and maybe 1-2 minutes playing clicky clicky in the classicshell settings and you have win7 back, albeit with a shell start menu icon instead of the 7 winlogo icon. I haven't seen the metro shit in months ( bluetooth toggling is the last time).

Once classic shell was installed 8.0 is essentially the same as 7... 8.1 sucks if you use skydrive ( or whatever they call it now ) since you can't have a local acount AND use skydrive.

TL;DR - win8 + classic shell pretty much = win7. So if win7 wroked for you win8 can too.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about 4 months ago | (#46545757)

not totally, I still don't like the windows decorations. If you install visual studio, there is a thin line around the window, which makes it a little more separate from the other windows. Windows 8 if you have 10 windows openen, you don't see the difference between one and the other window. Further the controlpanel is a chaos, it is even worse than the changes from xp to vista/win7. Would be nice is the could clean this up. You have like 10 different ways to get something done, for example adding a user, there are metro dialogs for that, and somehow you need to search for it. The way I do it now, is use google to find how to get there, I personally think that shouldn't be necessary...

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Giblet535 (3480751) | about 4 months ago | (#46545781)

Unless you'd have to repeat that process on 300 systems, or wrestle with generating a custom install.

Dude, it's literally 30 seconds to download Fedora 20 and replace Windows 8, like, and such as.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 4 months ago | (#46546187)

Except for the basic tools that have been migrated to metro. Want to change your wifi settings? Here's a clunky, ugly interface. It fixes some superficial problems, but other superficial problems remain.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46548757)

Wrong. Control Panel -> Network And Sharing Centre.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Zynder (2773551) | about 4 months ago | (#46547023)

Dude, it's like literally 30 minutes and I'll have a full Windows 7 copy from Pirate Bay. Get the right tool for the job. Don't go putting lipstick on a pig.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46549169)

Except Windows 8 + Classic Shell is faster and more secure than Windows 7.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Algae_94 (2017070) | about 4 months ago | (#46545739)

I'd appreciate it if you stop making claims for an entire group of people. I have no problems with Win8 and happily use it.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 4 months ago | (#46546165)

Well, I didn't mean to speak for the mentally disabled too, you're right

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 4 months ago | (#46547071)

Except that there aren't any DX12 games yet. And when they do start coming out they will be too few to really encourage many people to fork over one hundred dollars to upgrade their OS.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543587)

Well, hyper-v core 2012 is only manageable by RSAT on Windows 8 (seriously, you can't manage it with win7... wtf?). So, I guess I won't be using either product. OH well... Guess i'll just get better with KVM.... what a bunch of morons.

Re:Let me guess... (4, Insightful)

Zumbs (1241138) | about 4 months ago | (#46543131)

According to this [vg247.com] :

The firm wouldn’t comment on whether Windows 7 would support DirectX 12

This makes it pretty clear that MS are not planning to support Windows 7, but that they know it will be an unpopular move or that it may be possible to pressure them into supporting Windows 7. After all, why would a game developer use DX12 over DX11 (or even DX9) if it is only supported by a small subset of their market?

Re:Let me guess... (3, Interesting)

Joce640k (829181) | about 4 months ago | (#46543199)

After all, why would a game developer use DX12 over DX11 (or even DX9) if it is only supported by a small subset of their market?

That never stopped them from doing it before. XP had majority market share when DX10/11 were launched.

Re:Let me guess... (5, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | about 4 months ago | (#46543283)

And the result is that DX9 games are still being released, even today.

Re:Let me guess... (2)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 months ago | (#46546221)

And with 33% of the windows market still running XP and a further 55% or so running Win 7, why would that change for anything but new games that require resources not available to the average XP machine? Even then, looking at those percentages, you'd only step up to DX 11.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 4 months ago | (#46548783)

Another (perhaps even more important) reason is that the Xbox 360 ran on a derivative of DirectX 9. Most games were ported over from consoles, which made it much easier to go from the 360 to DX9 than to recode for DX10. Didn't help that DX10 was a huge step from DX9 with a complete rewrite of most of the API, so it took years for game developers to port their engines over.

Re:Let me guess... (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 4 months ago | (#46543397)

XP had majority market share when DX10/11 were launched.

And virtually every game released after that supported DX9 until Windows 7 got traction. And a lot of them even after that.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Daniel Hoffmann (2902427) | about 4 months ago | (#46544081)

The thing is, these new DX features (like tesselation) are usually not an integral part of the game visuals. So many games just have a flag (DX9 vs DX11 flag), they make some preprocessor definitions to have two binaries, one with the newer features turned on and one with them turned off. So the windows XP folks could still play all the games (most of them would not have good enough hardware to use the new features anyway). This put the burden on the devs though, while not that hard to make two binaries it would still mean that a lot more of QA had to be done.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about 4 months ago | (#46545971)

They were stupid, we are just now moving to directx 10/11, we could have been there 5 years ago, if they had supported windows xp. Most customers moved to windows 7 the last few years, but only now we can tell our customs we drop xp support. So microsoft makes nices things in comparison to the situation under linux. But a big part of the advantages we have by using windows are last because of the restrictions, and the stubborness of microsoft, not supporting features on mainstream windows versions. That they stop support windows xp now, is okay, but introducing DX9Ex/10/11 only for vista stopped progress a lot... Same by the way is true for there Internet Explorer. When they just killed IE6 and never would have made a new version, would have made our lives a lot easier. Even when the next version is better than the previous version, it still sucks. Even the latest version is a disaster for webdevelopment, okay it's a little less disaster. Just a small example, try to make a image gray-scale, it works in normal css3 browser, not in IE, there you need there old filters, which is fine, wasn't it that they changed the syntax, and even removed them, so in the last version it isn't possible anymore, or you need to hack with svg. Why can't they just keep the old stuff working until the css3 support is finished. Other example Managed DirectX, to many bugs, they moved to XNA and abandoned the old stuff without fixing the bugs. And now they abandoned XNA. So you need to look to alternatives, those alternatives are ofcourse restricted to what microsoft provides, if there is a problem, microsoft says screw you. In what they are good is marketing of vaporware. Now directX12, it isn't there yet, no information on which platform will support it, only that it is the best, and everyone should use it etc... We will see...

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 4 months ago | (#46543287)

Replace DX12 with Mantle and ask again.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#46543293)

This makes it pretty clear that MS are not planning to support Windows 7

Why would Microsoft have to do anything? OpenGL comes with the driver, not the OS. Microsoft has only ever shipped a crappy software-only renderer.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543417)

Why would Microsoft have to do anything? OpenGL comes with the driver, not the OS. Microsoft has only ever shipped a crappy software-only renderer.

Unlike OpenGL, DirectX requires support from the OS *and* the driver. DX12 drivers are simply not possible on XP. Even DX11 are not possible on XP because there is no support for those features in the OS.

This is why OpenGL allows you to target video hardware, while DirectX is limited to specific windows version. This makes DirectX much more fragmented environment.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#46543467)

Hmm, I was still stuck on the OpenGL part of the summary I guess. That was way more interesting to me. Piss on DirectX. Only today did I get DX10 going, and it's on a super-budget card. And I don't actually care about DX10, it just happened because I finally installed Win7 on a machine with only hilariously instead of incredibly outdated graphics.

Re:Let me guess... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543493)

After all, why would a game developer use DX12 over DX11 (or even DX9) if it is only supported by a small subset of their market?

Almost 25% of gamers use Windows 8 according to Steam hardware stats: http://store.steampowered.com/... [steampowered.com] . This makes it not only the second place gaming platform but also the fastest growing one. (+0.83% last month). If you look closely, the platform that had the largest loss was not XP or even Vista but Windows 7, at 0.36% last month. Seems like by the time DX12 is released in 2015, Windows 8 will hold a pretty hefty chunk of the gaming market.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

dingen (958134) | about 4 months ago | (#46543761)

Just in time to make DX12 available only for Windows 9 then :-P

Re:Let me guess... (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 4 months ago | (#46544183)

Bragging rights.
i.e.
CryTek Crysis

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about 4 months ago | (#46543169)

It's Window 8 only, right?

To be fair to Microsoft, this is not a new strategy for them. Windows 7 SP1 can only go up to DirectX 11.1 and Windows Visa SP2 can only go up to DirectX 10.1.

Unless I've read the history of this chart [wikipedia.org] incorrectly, then I would assume that both DirectX 12 and 12.1 would be compatible with Windows 8, but that you'll need to upgrade to Windows 8.1 if you want to get DirectX 12.2

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543329)

Vista can update to DX 11.

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Smauler (915644) | about 4 months ago | (#46546811)

AC parent is correct, I'm currently running Vista with DirectX11.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543449)

You did read it incorrectly. It says right there that Vista SP2 goes up to DirectX 11.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543173)

"During a Q&A, Gosalia pointedly dodged a question about whether Microsoft would be offering DirectX 12 support on Windows 7."

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543207)

DX9? XP+ only (worked fine on 2k if you patched the installer...)
DX10? Vista+ only
DX11? 7+ only
Seeing a pattern yet?

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543415)

DirectX 11 works under Vista: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D... [wikipedia.org]

Re:Let me guess... (1)

Gunboat_Diplomat (3390511) | about 4 months ago | (#46543561)

It's Window 8 only, right?

It is more likely for Windows 9 (not a joke).

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543707)

Windows 9 actually but thanks for playing

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46547569)

No, it has a mandatory technical requirement for having Windows 8.1 with IE as defaulf browser, Bing being configured as search engine. And it can only be downloaded from MS store with an registered account and it is also possible to install it to the Skydrive. No strings attached.

Sup MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543033)

You've got a lot more work ahead of you than you think this time to convince people to upgrade...

DirectX is dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543083)

Nobody will miss you, DirectX.

A reaction? (5, Interesting)

Dega704 (1454673) | about 4 months ago | (#46543103)

I can't help but wonder if the game development gravity that is developing around Linux had at least some part in motivating Microsoft to stop screwing around and get serious about releasing version 12.

Re:A reaction? (2)

mlw4428 (1029576) | about 4 months ago | (#46543237)

Not likely. I'd love to dump Windows for Linux -- it'd make building new PCs cheaper (I don't pirate my OS), but thus far the majority of the big-game publishers don't seem keen on leaving Windows. I think it will come, but it's no where near the momentum to get Microsoft to care. Not yet.

Re:A reaction? (1)

twocows (1216842) | about 4 months ago | (#46543275)

GP didn't say it reached critical mass, merely that there are a lot of things happening right now. Valve is making a major push toward getting developers to do things on Linux. I think that has yet to finish playing out; the pieces are still moving.

Re:A reaction? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543395)

The Steam Linux platform hasn't stabilized yet. SteamOS is still in beta, SteamMachines are yet not out, and Valve is polishing its developer tools. I bet there are more big developers arriving at the scene after the ball is rolling.

Re:A reaction? (1)

ratboy666 (104074) | about 4 months ago | (#46545985)

Dump Windows for Linux. Pretty dumb reason. In fact, not a reason. And, it won't save you money. Back in 2008/9 a Linux netbook was 50ish dollars cheaper. Now, you can't get one (easily). If you have a need for Linux (I do, it runs the applications I want), you will typically get the machine with Windows, and then replace it with Linux. Microsoft gets money, and has one less customer to support.

Re:A reaction? (4, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 4 months ago | (#46543265)

From what I'm seeing mobile device gaming is where more consumers are focusing their money. Yes, there are still console and PC gaming but the average consumer is spending their $0.99 on mobile games not $60 games. That means almost no money/traction going to Windows mobile platforms given their tiny market share. It's all going to iOS and Android. With both platforms getting more powerful GPUs and CPUs, MS has to do something.

SteamBox (5, Insightful)

goathumper (1284632) | about 4 months ago | (#46543119)

This has nothing to do with competing with Mantle or even improving the DirectX technology stack. The target here is the Steam Box, and Linux+OpenGL to a lesser extent. M$ can't afford to let the Steam box become the dominant PC gaming platform (or at least a major player) as it's threatening to become. The news that Linux+OpenGL could run some Source games much faster than Windows with lesser hardware did not sit well in Redmond, and this is their response.

Re:SteamBox (1)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | about 4 months ago | (#46543221)

>$ can't afford to let the Steam box become the dominant PC gaming platform (or at least a major player) as it's threatening to become.

Is it? I'm interested in Valve's new controller, but not in a Steam Box, and I don't know anyone who is. Breaking Microsoft's monopoly on AAA games would be terrific, but I have serious doubts that the Steam Box is going to do it.

Re:SteamBox (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543357)

Steam Box is just a way of saying "hardware sold with SteamOS preinstalled, for gaming".

SteamOS scares Microsoft. It is an attempt to create a gaming distro of Linux, with large digital distributor putting their weight behind it, enticing developers to support it with games. The hard first step to get those ports going.

Once the majority of PC games get SteamOS ports, Microsoft is in big trouble as their OS costs money...

Re:SteamBox (1)

afidel (530433) | about 4 months ago | (#46544465)

Once the majority of PC games get SteamOS ports, Microsoft is in big trouble as their OS costs money...

Not really, since Windows 8 OEM costs ~$50 and the cheapest steambox announced was $500 it's really not a consequential cost for those interested in PC gaming. Heck, if you can get your system price under $250 MS will drop the OS license to $15 so even on cheap hardware it's not really a major consideration.

Re:SteamBox (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46546847)

You fail at logic on multiple counts.

Windows 8 OEM costs ~$50 and the cheapest steambox announced was $500

Apples to oranges. If I have hardware to run that $50 Windows license on, I have hardware to run a $0 SteamOS install.

if you can get your system price under $250 MS will drop the OS license to $15

If you can get your system price under $250, SteamOS will still be $0 .

The poster you replied to is correct, and you just served to prove his point, albeit in a rather hamfisted way. The fact is that, all other things being equal, Microsoft cannot beat SteamOS on price. That's why they're trying desperately to tilt things in their favor and lock developers in with DirectX 12. Here's to hoping it won't work.

I'm quite looking forward to SteamOS being "ready for primetime". I'll have a small PC by my TV, and it will be able to stream games that are being run by beefier hardware on my local network. That OnLive-over-the-LAN functionality is going to kill Windows as a gaming platform by freeing developers to work on Linux while leaving their legacy Windows games accessible.

Re:SteamBox (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 4 months ago | (#46543623)

Steam Box = SteamOS / Linux + Steam on my current gaming PC instead of Windows. It's all we keep it for.

It's Windows dropping as the dominant platform on the consumer desktop. Once grandma's nerdy grandson gets Linux on his PC instead of Windows, that's what he'll be giving to grandma instead of fixing her aging windows box. That is what will drive MS into the annals of history.

Re:SteamBox (4, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 4 months ago | (#46543831)

For me to make a game work on Steam Box, then that means I'm going to make it run on Linux without Steam Box, and that means it's a no brainer for it to run on Mac and MS Win too. I use C+OpenGL as the base of my cross platform development toolchain, and the platform abstraction layer handles all the OS / device specific windowing, input, and audio. Hey, I had to write it once, why not write it such that it'll run on as much platforms as possible if I'm starting out making the engine from scratch?

What MS would have to do is convince me that I should just ignore Steam, Linux, and Mac to use MS's platform specific DX solution. It's an arbitrary choice in terms of technology (seriously, we're talking fucking drivers here man, it's the hardware that makes the difference). Since it will cost me the same time and energy to choose OpenGL, and as a bonus I get these other marketsegments for free (I love free money), plus free marketing via appearing on Steam and Steam Box... MS is going to have to pay developers to make MS exclusives -- Same shit goes for consoles: Why would I NOT want to make more money by selecting a cross platform engine?

Right. That's what I thought, there's no real strong argument in MS's favor except if you've already gone with their toolset and you're firmly vendor locked to a dev environment they control (like a fool). Even Unreal4 will support Linux. No one force is going to destroy MS's monopoly, but compatibility with the Steam Box (and its controller) is actually a pretty good reason to not use DX for lots of devs considering the huge volume of folks with steam accounts who can now use them on Linux thanks to Valve getting their games running on Steam Box. MS: We have some slight improvements and you can get at a lower level API (read: better tied to the platforms we'll obsolete soon).

Non-MS: More marketshare = Free money & No vendor lock in or planned obsolescence. Hmmm, I don't even need to think about this: Cross platform or bust.

As for the monopoly on AAA games? See the cross platform games on consoles. Now see how Unreal and Source will both run on Linux. The battle is basically over. Going forward publishers will want more money. OpenGL also makes it far easier to port less demanding games to mobile. I just really can't find a good reason to go with DirectX unless that's what you're already shackled too. Any new engine devs would be idiots to not go cross platform. With W8 MS has demonstrated lack of ability to execution on their core competency (OS's people want to use). So, why invest in a windows only solution and bet it all on an unsure thing especially considering the fast growing mobile / tablet gaming segment?

MS has bank. They'll be around for a while, but it's only a matter of time. Really, it's 2014. The OS should be irrelevant. Applications are what people use devices for, not OSs. MS should just save money and release their own Linux distro.

Re:SteamBox (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46546393)

Really, it's 2014. The OS should be irrelevant. Applications are what people use devices for, not OSs. MS should just save money and release their own Linux distro.

Indeed, it is 2014, but Linux still blows except for 2 areas, embeded devices and servers. Not to mention that Linux lacks a lot of the commercial software availible for Windows and even MacOS. Dump NT and make a Linux distro? Yeah, ok. That's not even where most the work needs to be done. You still have X and the yet to mature Wayland to move into the 2014 era. Neither of which is up to par with Windows in terms of having a display system that just works, without hacks, edits, or workarounds. You guys still can't even update a video driver without at least restarting X. You Linux zealots have been predicting Microsofts death for the last 20 years. Like the 2nd coming of Christ, you'll probably be dead before it happens, and a new batch of trolls will emerge to take your place.

Re:SteamBox (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46546721)

You and parent both make important points. MS is a sad place to make games.

On the other hand, getting a video card to work in linux last time I checked (granted a couple years) was a pain and you had to do backflips and jump through flaming hoops. I don't know enough about linux to get it working. I'm a cs guy for crying out loud... what is the average person who just wants to play some games going to do? They're going to go to their android or mac system.

Moving away from DX as fast as possible is great. Linux people, I generally love what you've done with the place...

But I'm afraid we're going to be reliant on a big company... either valve with steam or google with android.. for some time. (which is almost as bad as relying on MS and DX)

Beta Sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46547241)

Weird. I just install Mint, select the proprietary driver and run games through Wine.

Re:SteamBox (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | about 4 months ago | (#46548323)

On the other hand, getting a video card to work in linux last time I checked (granted a couple years) was a pain and you had to do backflips and jump through flaming hoops. I don't know enough about linux to get it working. I'm a cs guy for crying out loud...

Probably that was the problem?

If you have an nVidia card, for past 5+ years installation of the proprietary driver was a matter of a single click and a reboot. And that single click in a settings window called "Additional Drivers". Hard to miss if you trying to figure it out on your own.

Haven't tried ATI cards in recent years, but I'm pretty sure Ubuntu/derivatives does something about them too.

There were problems in the past with the very very recent nVidia cards, but they are updating drivers fairly quickly. (Though still slower than for Windows.)

Re:SteamBox (1)

nateman1352 (971364) | about 4 months ago | (#46550039)

I mostly agree with you but you have to consider that unfortunately there are a LOT of XBox systems out there and if a game dev wants to target that audience (which is a lot bigger than the PC gaming audience) then DX is required... no OpenGL API support on XBox (big surprise.)

This is why all the major game engines support both DX and OpenGL.

I'm not sure about the SteamBox .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543435)

I'm beginning to think that it's VaporWare ....

Re:SteamBox (2)

dunezone (899268) | about 4 months ago | (#46543507)

M$

I didn't know that was still in style.

Options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543161)

This is the first time I really see people making DirectX vs OpenGL an ideological selection. Before, I thought it was just what is right for my project. Now it's a politically driven choice. It's sad.

Re: Options (2)

donscarletti (569232) | about 4 months ago | (#46543341)

DirectX has been MS only since it's inception, it has always had the implication of whatever you are making not being able to use of windows.

The difference now is that OpenGL is no longer crap and DirectX is no longer the clear front runner, so people can start saying again "hey, why am I using DX?" Rather than taking for granted that it is better for games.

Re: Options (1)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | about 4 months ago | (#46543391)

I hope you're right, and people start making more OpenGL games rather than DirectX. Time will tell.

Re: Options (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about 4 months ago | (#46544397)

People are already making far more OpenGL games than DirectX games. Look at the Apple AppStore or GooglePlay games list then compare that to Windows desktop, Xbox (all games and variations) and Windows Phone. Apple alone blows MS away, add all the stuff from Android as well ... well, DirectX isn't the leader in the gaming world, not by a long shot.

Re: Options (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 4 months ago | (#46548791)

Some would dispute that the App Store and Google Play are part of the "gaming world". While there are excellent games on both stores, most are complete and utter drivel (many people compare the App Store to the far west), at a much much lower percentage than on Steam or the likes.

Re:Options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543633)

If they like DirectX12 on Windows 7 they can keep their DirectX12

Re:Options (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543775)

If you are targeting a recent enough version of Windows such that you can use the version of DirectX you are considering, then yes, it is a choice of which tool you prefer. If you want to target any other platform, your choice is made (mostly for OpenGL outside of Xbox). It is no more politically driven then saying you want to support platforms other than Windows.

Re:Options (3, Interesting)

mikael (484) | about 4 months ago | (#46546235)

It's been like that for nearly two decades now. At least since 1994, when software rendered Quake came out. SGI pushed to get OpenGL out as a software API to eliminate the need for in-house software renderers. Microsoft realized they needed their own 3D software API to keep up to date with the game industry developments. 3Dfx came out with the Glide API for hardware piggyback boards. Nvidia formed from SGI engineers who wanted to see PC boards, then there was a race to be the first fully complete TLC (texturing, lighting and clipping) hardware accelerated boards, then another race for programmable fragment shading, then vertex, geometry and compute shaders.

The ideological battle has continued. Microsoft has always seen themselves as the supplier of software API's. In response, The Khronos consortium formed to provide an open standard alternative to proprietary API's (www.khronos.org).

Thank you Mantle (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543203)

Now, let's move on to getting rid of this DirectX stranglehold.

Multiple platforms (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 4 months ago | (#46543291)

Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows RT.

windows 9 and maybe hacked for 7 as well (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 4 months ago | (#46543471)

windows 9 and maybe hacked for 7 as well

Re:windows 9 and maybe hacked for 7 as well (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543715)

It's probably too complex effort to hack DX12 to Win7, if we are talking about "the community" doing it.

Multiple Platforms? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543335)

Try Microsoft shit only.

But? "But"?! (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 4 months ago | (#46543583)

Like AMD's Mantle API, it promises reduced CPU overhead and lower-level access to graphics hardware. But DirectX 12 won't be limited to one vendor's hardware.

Nor will Mantle. I suppose that fact checking really fell out of fashion here on - oh, wait...

Re:But? "But"?! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46543699)

Yeah but unlike Mantle, DX 12 will actually work on more than one vendors' hardware. Mantle on anything but GCN is vapourware.

Still at least we can both agree that this is ridiculous:

OpenGL can get the similar 'close to the metal' performance as Mantle and DirectX 12.

The point of Mantle & DX12 is that they are more efficient APIs. The OGL talk is around the fact that you can get good performance if you rearchitect your game around the vagaries of current OpenGL drivers. So that only raises OGL to the usefulness of DX11, then. The idea that OGL is somehow already as good as Mantle and DX12 is laughable nonsense.

Re:But? "But"?! (0)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 4 months ago | (#46543755)

Yeah but unlike Mantle, DX 12 will actually work on more than one vendors' hardware.

Yes, it will work on two vendors' hardware. Meanwhile, Mantle could easily work on Android devices, for example. Or on Linux@anything (POWER etc.) - look ma', no windows!

Re:But? "But"?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46550565)

Two? What about Intel?

Re:But? "But"?! (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 4 months ago | (#46543969)

Mantle is just an API, it's up to the manufacturer to implement that API. Nothing stopping NVidia. Mantle is not just meant to be good for graphics, but it's also highly geared to use the GPU as a co-cpu, especially for low latency back-and-forth communications. It will obviously benefit AMD's APUs the most because they really need a low latency task passing API to make use of the hardware, but it still highly benefits discreet GPUs.

Re:But? "But"?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46544421)

How discreet is your GPU? Are you sure it's not ratting you out to the NSA?

Re:But? "But"?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46548397)

Yeah but unlike Mantle, DX 12 will actually work on more than one vendors' hardware. Mantle on anything but GCN is vapourware.

  The idea that OGL is somehow already as good as Mantle and DX12 is laughable nonsense.

You refer to Mantle on non-GCN hardware as "vaporware" and in the next breath praise DX12, an unreleased product, for it's performance benefits over OGL. What's wrong with this picture?

Setting up (2)

jones_supa (887896) | about 4 months ago | (#46543811)

Opening a window and setting up rendering context in DirectX makes my head hurt every time. You always need a hundred line boilerplate for that. OpenGL combined with SDL or SFML it's usually something like under ten lines.

Seems like Haswell support limited (2)

edxwelch (600979) | about 4 months ago | (#46544325)

The summary says that Intel Haswell CPUs will support DirectX 12, however it seems that only Iris and Iris Pro iGPUs will support it according to this article:
http://wccftech.com/microsofts... [wccftech.com]

DirectX 12 is now just a wrapper (1)

hduff (570443) | about 4 months ago | (#46544515)

for openGL?

imokwiththat.jpg

Opengl Extensions anyone? (1)

FithisUX (855293) | about 4 months ago | (#46545629)

We need a stack and a common low level interface like USB Mass Storage for GFX. Only one driver common to all gfx. Implement OpenGL in hardware and interface with it, nothing else. Open source the GFX interface or create a spec, we need one gfx driver and nothing else.

Mantle not limited to one vendor's hardware (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | about 4 months ago | (#46546099)

Like AMD's Mantle API, it promises reduced CPU overhead and lower-level access to graphics hardware. But DirectX 12 won't be limited to one vendor's hardware.

Mantle will work on this hardware as well, and won't be limited to one vendor's operating system. From AMD's Mantle FAQ [amd.com]

win7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46546293)

If DX12 doesn't support Win7, then it may as well not exist. Win9 OTOH.........that should be where M$ digs themselves out of the crap house once again.(and again, and again, and again....)

Can we please get away from dx? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46546641)

It's one platform out of the three main ones.. nono.. not even three main... windows is falling behind... Android and OSX for ipad are probably coming out on top at this point. Linux and windows are left.

I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE for all the big game companies to move to linux.

So lets do it... If we have to, lets have a desktop android to run our games on...

Or steamos...

OR someone make it easy for the hardware makers to build on linux.. which from some article or another I got the impression that was part of the problem.

Anyway... until people move away from DX we are stuck with microsoft.

(or can we get serious dx emulation on linux?)

Low level access (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46547427)

In other news, The Faggot Foundation promises low level anal access to all faggots worldwide.

DX era is over. forget it, Microsoft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46547587)

These days games have to run on more than just Windows. Game consoles, tablets, smartphones, OSX... That's why the industry is shifting rapidly over to OpenGL.

The era of your single-vendor graphics API is over. Stick a fork in it.

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