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Detroit: America's Next Tech Boomtown

Soulskill posted about 6 months ago | from the now-can-one-of-you-build-robocop-please dept.

Businesses 336

jfruh writes: "Over the past few years, the growth rate in Detroit tech jobs has been twice the natural average. The reason is the industry that still makes Detroit a company town: U.S. automotive companies are getting into high tech in a big way, and need qualified people to help them do it. Another bonus: the rent is a lot cheaper than it is in San Francisco. '[A]ccording to Automation Alley's 2013 Technology Industry Report, the metro Detroit area grew to a total of 242,520 technology industry jobs in 2011, representing a 15% increase from the 2010 level of 210,984 technology industry jobs. No other benchmarked region had greater technology industry growth than metro Detroit in this period. Further, according to the report, this growth helped propel metro Detroit to a ranking of fourth among the 14 benchmarked regions, passing San Jose."

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FLYOVER (-1, Troll)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46788207)

That's a fact.

Nobody dealin' with that winter, for rent.

Re:FLYOVER (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788231)

Detroit is the asshole of Michigan.
Flint is 50 miles up it.

Re:FLYOVER (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788581)

Courtesy Dearbornistan

Re:FLYOVER (3, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 6 months ago | (#46788419)

Winters are no worse than New York City, Chicago, or Boston. Flyover? You mean like Chicago? Just wait till the next shoe drops on California and your water bill hits $600 a month unless of course you are poor and then they subside that so no one dies of thirst.
California is way too confident.

Re:FLYOVER (2)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788433)

> You mean like Chicago?

I change in Chicago when flying to the UK you insensitive clod!

Cheap cooling (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 6 months ago | (#46788499)

and cheap wages (lower rent means you can pay people less). People will go where the work is, whether they like it or not.

Re:Cheap cooling (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788737)

And work will go where the infrastructure is, and that's not Detroilet.

Re:FLYOVER (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788561)

or within the gang wars. Or the urban blight. Or the packs of wild dogs running the streets. Or....

Re:FLYOVER (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 6 months ago | (#46788569)

That's a fact.

Nobody dealin' with that winter, for rent.

Funny, because Detroit isn't that far removed from St. Louis weather-wise, and STL is the tech hub of the midwest.

Slashdot's corporate masters will like this tidbit: Dice ranked Missouri as the fastest growing state in regards to tech jobs last year. [cbslocal.com]

Of course, there's plenty of good reasons why tech companies wouldn't want to base out of Detroit, but the weather sure ain't one of them.

Re:FLYOVER (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46788605)

That's a fact.

Nobody dealin' with that winter, for rent.

Not everyone is too fragile to handle a little weather.

Demographics problem (1, Insightful)

callmetheraven (711291) | about 6 months ago | (#46788209)

Detroit's population is success-proof, they will find a way to drive away wealth as they always have, perhaps another riot will return them to the poverty they've earned so well.

Re:Demographics problem (0)

flyingfsck (986395) | about 6 months ago | (#46788473)

Sure, they are success proof, but fortunately they are twice as natural as the rest of the population.

Re:Demographics problem (5, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | about 6 months ago | (#46788529)

Yeah, it's not like shifting globalized markets can turn one of the places with the best median standards of living into a slum over a couple decades. Yep, it's gotta be "those" people. You know "those ones". They're just incompatible with success.

I don't know if you're racist or anti-union, but either way, your opinions are just biases stated in words.

Re:Demographics problem (1)

alen (225700) | about 6 months ago | (#46788591)

a lot of car makers can build cars in the USA profitably. even small cars. except GM and Ford

part of the problem is the factories are old and there is no more room to expand. but then you have stupid union rules that say you have to deliver parts to one end of the factory so some guy can move them over to the end where they are needed

Re:Demographics problem (1)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 6 months ago | (#46788657)

Pretty sure Ford is profitable as of now? (and probably GM as well)

Re:Demographics problem (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 6 months ago | (#46788699)

And there's the fact that those companies to a lot of their manufacturing overseas or out of town, and that detroit isn't as appealing a place to build anymore in a bit of a positive feedback loop.

Query (2)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | about 6 months ago | (#46788215)

If true, this is great for Detroit. That said, what the heck is the "natural average" of job growth?

Re:Query (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | about 6 months ago | (#46788295)

This article feels like all those ads you see at the bottom of news stories that are disguised to look like related news. They all talk about how great things are in Detroit and how cheap the land and buildings are and how the economy is "booming". Is it sad that Slashdot has fallen so far that my suspicion meter is starting to move when I see articles like this?

I'd buy that for a dollar! (2, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | about 6 months ago | (#46788239)

I heard that they gave Omni Consumer Products^W^W^W Google to clean up the town. They're doing something with drones.

Re:I'd buy that for a dollar! (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 6 months ago | (#46788509)

I've got some concerns over the 209 [youtube.com] model...

do they have a progressive view? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 6 months ago | (#46788253)

in that area of the country? it does not seem so, to me. seems more like deep red states, more or less. not exactly what tech people flock to, to be honest.

weather is a huge turn-off. culture of progress and new ideas is not there.

crime and corruption IS there. well, the ceo's will like it, at least; but the rest of us, not so much..

Re:do they have a progressive view? (2)

Stickerboy (61554) | about 6 months ago | (#46788317)

in that area of the country? it does not seem so, to me. seems more like deep red states, more or less. not exactly what tech people flock to, to be honest.

Yes, because conservative views have turned the tech industry off from flocking to Texas for jobs. There's a sarcasm tag embedded there.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0, Flamebait)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 6 months ago | (#46788357)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

in all my life, I have never heard anyone EXCITED about moving to texas, at least for tech. sure, there is tech there but only for those that can stomach the texas lifestyle and redneck attitudes.

the outright racism and bible-belt feel just is not compatible with many techies' view of what a good living area should offer.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (5, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 6 months ago | (#46788397)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

... and since the worldview of you and your friends equals 100% of tech employees... /sarc

the outright racism and bible-belt feel just is not compatible with many techies' view of what a good living area should offer.

Never actually been to the "bible-belt," have you? It shows in your bigotry against those of us who actually live here, the irony of which is not lost on me.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (5, Insightful)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788461)

The tech in Texas is centered on Austin. The techies in Texas gravitate to the most progressive parts of Texas.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 6 months ago | (#46788759)

The "progressive" techies in Texas gravitate to the most "progressive" parts of Texas.

FTFY

How the Dallas-Fort Worth Tech Sector Has Roared Back [dmagazine.com]

The Dallas-Fort Worth area is one of the most significant high-tech business centers in the United States, with several global leadership brands. With about 3,000 technology companies and nearly 230,000 high-tech employees, DFW is arguably the second-largest technology business center in the country, behind California’s Silicon Valley.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (2)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788829)

I no more want to live in Dallas than I do Detroit.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (-1, Flamebait)

cold fjord (826450) | about 6 months ago | (#46788883)

I would have to credit that as yet another of Dallas' charms.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788797)

Yeah if you ignore Dallas.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (5, Insightful)

Glith (7368) | about 6 months ago | (#46788463)

I've spent about half of my life in Texas. I've lived in Houston, Dallas, and Austin. I've also lived in Silicon Valley, Seattle, and Southern California.

Every conversation about living in Texas I've had with a West Coaster:
"How can you stand living in Texas. Everyone is so bigoted and prejudicial?"
"Oh really, have you ever been there?"
"No."
"..."

Re:do they have a progressive view? (3, Insightful)

alen (225700) | about 6 months ago | (#46788603)

it's not the bigotry, its the fact they have no zoning laws and some megacorp can build a fertilizer plant next to residential housing and kill people when it explodes
or build some oil refinery next to someone's home and poison their air and water

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788811)

it's not the bigotry, its the fact they have no zoning laws and some megacorp can build a fertilizer plant next to residential housing and kill people when it explodes
or build some oil refinery next to someone's home and poison their air and water

[Citation Needed]

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46788815)

"Oh really, have you ever been there?" "No."

Pretty specious stuff there Sparky. I've never been shot, but I know darn well it's going to hurt.

The problem is, Texas has been electing politicians that while they apparently are exactly what Texas thinks is good, look to the rest of the non-red country as not so hot.

There seems to be a popular movement in Texas to not even be Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... [wikipedia.org]

Re:do they have a progressive view? (3, Insightful)

k8to (9046) | about 6 months ago | (#46788891)

I have been there. It is.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

Aeonym (1115135) | about 6 months ago | (#46788609)

Saying that Texas is full of rednecks is just as accurate as saying that California is full of Mexicans.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (3, Insightful)

bobbied (2522392) | about 6 months ago | (#46788673)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

You obviously haven't actually BEEN in Texas have you? There are parts of Texas I wouldn't give you a plug nickle for, but the techie parts of it are nice places to live. Dallas, Austin, Huston (less so) are great places to live. I've lived in Austin and Dallas and where both are unique, both are good places to live.

in all my life, I have never heard anyone EXCITED about moving to texas, at least for tech. sure, there is tech there but only for those that can stomach the texas lifestyle and redneck attitudes.

Yea, you've definitely NOT been here... Austin is ANYTHING but redneck in it's attitude. Dallas is a bit "cowboy" but that's NOT redneck either. Your preconceived notions about Texas are totally wrong. I got moved by my job, out of Texas, and I couldn't wait to get back. So you've now you have heard from somebody who was grateful to get transferred to Texas.

the outright racism and bible-belt feel just is not compatible with many techies' view of what a good living area should offer.

Again, you are so wrong. So very wrong... Texas is the most integrated culture I've lived in, if you measure it by looking at the diversity at various income levels. Yea, there are the poor, but your charge of racism is totally baseless, at least in the urban areas I've lived in. (cannot speak for what goes on out in the poorer country areas)

I would bet that Austin would come as a huge surprise to you. They may ware cowboy boots and hats, but don't let their looks fool you. It's obviously NOT what you think it is. I suggest you not knock it until you've tried it... But if you really have that bad of an attitude about Texas, go ahead and die so you won't have to risk moving here and ruining the place with your attitudes.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Zordak (123132) | about 6 months ago | (#46788867)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

That's fine with us. We'd just as soon you not come.

the outright racism and bible-belt feel just is not compatible with many techies' view of what a good living area should offer.

I like how you gobble up tropes fed to you by your Democratic overlords, and then accuse others of bigotry. It's cute.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

cold fjord (826450) | about 6 months ago | (#46788875)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

That would certainly cut down on your living expenses, and I think most Texans would appreciate the gesture.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788913)

I would die first before moving to texas. most of my friend also feel the same.

in all my life, I have never heard anyone EXCITED about moving to texas, at least for tech. sure, there is tech there but only for those that can stomach the texas lifestyle and redneck attitudes.

the outright racism and bible-belt feel just is not compatible with many techies' view of what a good living area should offer.

I would die to move there :-P.
Open space like at home, friendly people, good food and as a bonus (after Chicago and San Francisco, Baltimore) decent place for IPSC shooter. :-)
Where is the problem? I am living in wrong country to get H1B. But I am visiting as often as I can.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

Redmancometh (2676319) | about 6 months ago | (#46788919)

Youve obviously never heard of or been to Austin texas...or Houston..or Dallas. Austin is just a sliightly less laid back san fran with less male nudity.

Oh hey its also in the black with lower taxes and cost of living while California is in the red.

Yes there are conservatives, but most have moderate views which lean towards conservative. There are a few die-hard right wingers and bible thumpers but its rare and becoming rarer. Thats more of a midwest thing.

Outright racism is extremely rare. Far more so than say New York.

Tenn and Texas have the best bbq in the world, and Texans are extremely friendly as long as you stay out of Dallas.

My main complaint since arriving is the horrible awful weather here in Houston. 40 something days over 100F in a row a couple years back. Also snowing in Dallas in April...and hailing in July.

-Gcode/C#/CPP Dev

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

B33rNinj4 (666756) | about 6 months ago | (#46788445)

Agreed. I'm from Michigan, and still visit on a semi-regular basis. There are a few pockets of independent thought, but the state is still too focused on that union mentality. I just can't see a successful tech culture developing there. Plus the weather really sucks.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788455)

The cities are full of so called 'progressives'. That's also where most of the poverty & crime come from in these states.. What a coincidence!

Thank God for the out lying areas which are mainly conservative.

I can say Ohio has it's fair share of Tech jobs too - if you aren't afraid of cold.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (3, Insightful)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46788827)

The cities are full of so called 'progressives'. That's also where most of the poverty & crime come from in these states.. What a coincidence!

I wonder if that has anything to do with being where most of the people are to begin with.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 6 months ago | (#46788459)

Culture fallows people and remember that the VOTERS in CA passed the law making same sex marriage illegal. A judge decided it was "unconstitutional" and the supreme court just didn't take the case. I am betting the odds are about 80% that Utah and Oklahoma will win their cases and then the ruling in California will be overturned as well.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (2)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 6 months ago | (#46788489)

Ah, you appear to be confusing "people interested in high tech" with "fanatical zealots of a dualistic ideology". One of these is actually progressive, the other is not.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (3, Insightful)

Zordak (123132) | about 6 months ago | (#46788649)

in that area of the country? it does not seem so, to me. seems more like deep red states, more or less.

Detroit? Deep Red? Detroit has not had a Republican mayor in 50 years. Detroit is your liberal, socialist utopia. Liberals should be flocking there to bask in their success.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788685)

in that area of the country? it does not seem so, to me. seems more like deep red states, more or less. not exactly what tech people flock to, to be honest.

weather is a huge turn-off. culture of progress and new ideas is not there.

crime and corruption IS there. well, the ceo's will like it, at least; but the rest of us, not so much..

What the hell is a "culture of progress"? Statist-driven wealth redistribution? Subjugation of free speech to the will of an obnoxious minority? Replacement of academic freedom with "social justice"? Creating "white Hispanic" when it turns out the villain isn't white enough?

Given what I see from self-proclaimed "progressives", openness to new ideas is definitely one thing it's not a culture of. Look at the response "progressives" have to school vouchers. "Progressive" seems more like reactionary celebration of ideas spouted by Fidel Castro's executioner.

Never forget - Detroit was run into the ground by "progressives".

Re:do they have a progressive view? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788885)

Never forget - Detroit was run into the ground by "a major shift in the economy".

Same thing can happen in any city controlled by either Progressives or Conservatives. There is no way to downsize a city when your major industries leave.

Re:do they have a progressive view? (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about 6 months ago | (#46788895)

crime and corruption IS there. well, the ceo's will like it, at least; but the rest of us, not so much..

CEOs are drawn to the kind of crime you find on Wall Street, not the kind of crime you find in most of Detroit.

Wanted (4, Interesting)

slapout (93640) | about 6 months ago | (#46788271)

Wanted: People who are smart enough to work in tech, but dumb enough to live in an unsafe place.

Re:Wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788347)

Agreed - if this is what you want, you might as work government IT contract jobs in Afghanistan. Pay is 3x and no taxes. Plus you can legally tote your M16 around with you there.

Re:Wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788483)

Except on base, because you know, that would be unsafe.

re: dumb enough to live in unsafe places .... (1)

King_TJ (85913) | about 6 months ago | (#46788365)

It doesn't necessarily mean someone is making a dumb decision. This can be a perfectly legitimate, sensible option, IMO.

I knew people who moved to Mexico in the past, with similar motivations. If you can earn enough money there, you can easily afford to build yourself a fortress of a house and hire people to go out and run errands for you, etc. It might not make sense for someone with a whole family to take care of. But a younger, single person who might tend to be more of an introvert in the first place might be happy to "go where the money is" and spend a portion of it to buy the security that's lacking in the environment otherwise.

Re:Wanted (3, Insightful)

wile_e8 (958263) | about 6 months ago | (#46788367)

Note that this article is about "metro Detroit", not "Detroit". Plenty of safe places to live in the Detroit metro area, especially on a tech worker salary, they're just outside the city proper. And even if the jobs were in actual Detroit, it's still possible to commute from outside the city. But whatever, it's an article mentioning Detroit, let's just bash Detroit.

Re:Wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788733)

commuting blows, and the "surrounding metro areas" do NOT have the lower rent, the city has the reduced rent.

Took me about an hour to commute the 25 miles from Troy (each way). Rent is cheap below 8-mile, but that's where you stop seeing streetlights too.

Re:Wanted (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788389)

" an unsafe place" like SF? have you been outside there after dark? it's like a dystopian wasteland.

Re:Wanted (1)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788495)

>" an unsafe place" like SF? have you been outside there after dark?

I have. Many times. It was quite nice. They have lots of lighting so residents and visitors alike can get around despite it being night time. I wasn't mugged, except by the Hotel bill.

Derp. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788559)

And I've known people who have been mugged. I've seen signs posted warning office employees of men running about mugging people whilst brandishing firearms.

Protip: Statistically, you're nobody. Bonus protip: The vast majority of people in SF aren't mugged. The vast majority of people in Detroit aren't mugged.

Hell, the vast majority of people in Camden aren't murdered.

Doesn't mean your threat-free experience equates to the sort of 'safety' people like to imagine, though.

Re:Wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788661)

>" an unsafe place" like SF? have you been outside there after dark?

I have. Many times. It was quite nice. They have lots of lighting so residents and visitors alike can get around despite it being night time. I wasn't mugged, except by the Hotel bill.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime/

Crime index: 6 (100 is best) - 7.16 violent crimes per 1000 residents

Not terribly impressive. Is Detroit worse (yes, rated 2, 3 times the crime rate), but I don't see one as being able to crap on the other much. They both suck. But look at the suburbs around Detroit. Most of the ones where people with good jobs choose to live (and where most of the good jobs are anyway) are very comparable to the good neighborhoods around SF.

Re:Wanted (1)

msauve (701917) | about 6 months ago | (#46788791)

That's like saying the valley can't attract tech workers because of Oakland (well, except that Detroit actually has less crime than Oakland).

Re:Wanted (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46788853)

Wanted: People who are smart enough to work in tech, but dumb enough to live in an unsafe place.

Yeah. http://www.theverge.com/2013/1... [theverge.com]

You want a nice safe place like SanFrancisco And people who can't stand a little cold might be upset to know it isn't really all that warm either.

Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (5, Insightful)

sjbe (173966) | about 6 months ago | (#46788285)

Over the past few years, the growth rate in Detroit tech jobs has been twice the natural average.

It's not just growth. Detroit has had lots of tech jobs for decades. It's been in the top 5 markets for many types of tech jobs for a long time. There is an ENORMOUS amount of technology that goes into automobile manufacturing. Robotics, CAD, industrial automation, materials science, welding, forming, coatings, chemicals, software and more. There are very few places in the USA with a higher density of engineering talent and opportunity.

Oh and before someone makes yet another ill informed remark about Detroit City, don't confuse Metro Detroit with Detroit City. Oakland County, immediately to the north of Detroit is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire USA and has a AAA credit rating. Michigan is actually a really nice place to live, especially if you love the outdoors. Ann Arbor which is close by is a fantastic college town too if that suits your sensibilities.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 6 months ago | (#46788377)

Top two cities with the highest density of engineers are Huntsville Alabama and Palm Bay/Melbourne Florida for what should be obvious reasons.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788507)

>Huntsville Alabama and Palm Bay/Melbourne Florida for what should be obvious reasons.

Should be but isn't. Why are they they the top two cities with the highest density of engineers?

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788525)

>Huntsville Alabama and Palm Bay/Melbourne Florida for what should be obvious reasons.

Should be but isn't. Why are they they the top two cities with the highest density of engineers?

http://www.nasa.gov

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 6 months ago | (#46788735)

Ah. OK.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788577)

Hunstville has Redstone and a major NASA facitly there. the outgrowth of tech based companies over the years was just natural to support the work done on the base and at NASA.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 6 months ago | (#46788695)

Wow and this is supposed to be news for nerds?
NASA Huntsville is home of the Marshall Space Flight Center.
Melbourne Florida /Palm Bay? The largest town near Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral Air Force Base, Patricks Air Force Base, the Eastern Test Range, Harris corp, Raytheon, Boeing, and many other companies involved in space flight.
Big Nasa programs in relatively small cities means an extremely high percentage of highly educated tech people.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (2)

msauve (701917) | about 6 months ago | (#46788821)

Top two cities with the highest density of engineers are Huntsville Alabama and Palm Bay/Melbourne Florida for what should be obvious reasons.

...the ability to live off the government.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788521)

Oakland County, immediately to the north of Detroit is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire USA and has a AAA credit rating.

Not quite that high (a quick search and the best I can find was 61st place in 2012), but yes, pretty good. Yes, the city (both downtown and it's residential areas) is pretty much a dump, but stay about 10-15 miles away from downtown and the vast majority of neighborhoods are pretty decent. Go another 10 miles and there are tons of REALLY nice neighborhoods. And going that far doesn't mean you have to drive far, since a lot of the big business areas are centered around troy, farmington hills, novi, and ann arbor (all a decent distance from downtown, skirting that 20-30 mile radius). It's very possible to get a good job and find a pretty nice house that's only a 10-20 minute drive away.

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788629)

Ann Arbor - *wonderful* place. Even if you aren't into football!

Re:Nothing new - Always had tech jobs (1)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 6 months ago | (#46788711)

and that point right there is why it bugs me when people were advocating letting the auto industry wither away.. there's a HUGE amount of intellectual capital and industrial potential that simply wouldn't exist without the auto industry.

A bit stabbier than SF too (1)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about 6 months ago | (#46788299)

List of the most dangerous cities in the US for 2013 [examiner.com] . Detroit is 3rd, right after Flint, Michigan.

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (1)

AchilleTalon (540925) | about 6 months ago | (#46788427)

However, if you take into account the probability for natural disasters in the SF area, you may end even with Detroit. This article is misleading because it considers the criminality as the only threat to decide to which extent a city is dangerous or not. That's not fair.

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788615)

Yeah what's the probability of surviving a 7 earthquake in SF vs. 2 rounds from a Glock at less than 5ft?

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788801)

Yeah what's the probability of surviving a 7 earthquake in SF vs. 2 rounds from a Glock at less than 5ft?

What is probability of getting hit by an earth quake vs. getting hit by a glock?

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788869)

Yeah what's the probability of surviving a 7 earthquake in SF vs. 2 rounds from a Glock at less than 5ft?

More likely to be a revolver or a .22, but yeah.

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (1)

bitingduck (810730) | about 6 months ago | (#46788789)

I think the annual winter more than compensates for earthquake and fire risk. I grew up in the Detroit area, and I'll take the earthquake and fire risk in the hills around LA over winter, thanks.

Re:A bit stabbier than SF too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788833)

So you will take earth quakes and fires that will kill you over harmless snow?

Detroit proper, or Detroit *area*? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788303)

I bet they're counting Ann Arbor and maybe even Windsor Ontario as "Detroit".

Detroit proper? NFW.

The downside is... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788307)

... you have to live in Detroit...

Re:The downside is... (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about 6 months ago | (#46788751)

... you have to live in Detroit...

Or at least NEAR Detroit... It may not be as bad outside the city, but in my experience, it was nearly so. Was glad to get OUT of Michigan after living there for two years. Stopped and kissed the ground when I crossed the state line..

Re:The downside is... (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | about 6 months ago | (#46788785)

Only until you get shot.

Wait for it.... (4, Insightful)

retech (1228598) | about 6 months ago | (#46788329)

I went back for a visit last winter. It's sad. There are tiny pockets of hold outs and then the rest is just a free for all. Scrappers have gutted ever bit of available metal from any empty building not staffed with armed guards. This is best done with a sledge hammer and torch. The buildings are not recoverable after that. The roads are worse than a dirt road. At least gravity levels those out a bit. Then there's the crime.

I found a hipster pocket in DelRay. Perhaps one of the most obliterated areas. The homes are early 20th cen and cute. They sell for about $10 - 100. If you can find a buyer. There was a 2 block section of white hipsters fixing up their little gems. Baby strollers, all the trimmings. And I commented to a friend who still lives about .5 miles away: "Don't they realize when things get bad enough they're gonna be food for the locals?" He just laughed and said no.

Nothing has really changed there. Sadly it won't. The mentality is still the same. No matter how much money you throw at it. The city is corrupt from the ground up and has been for 100+ yrs. The new mayor may help. But he'll most likely give up like Archer did. Without a major paradigm shift in mentality it will always be Detroit.

Re:Wait for it.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788731)

I drove through Brightmoor in 2009. Lived there for seven years in the '70s.

First thing I saw turning South from Fenkell on Dolphin was a `youth' at the top of the driveway in front of a house profiling with a TEC-9 and watching me pass. There is unidentified stuff rotting in the street. Double murders are routine.

A few months ago the Blow Torch Rapist [cbslocal.com] was caught after he raped and .... blow-torched ... some women. No one that doesn't follow Detroit news even knows about it.

To work there you have to understand that there are places Detroit where if you stop while driving through you will not survive. They will kill you. Full stop. So, drive a low mileage SUV at all times, get a carry permit and a clue. You'll need them all.

The city is corrupt from the ground up

Indeed. The bankruptcy auditors found that this city council wrote a couple billion in arbitrary checks against the municipal pension fund to all sorts of characters for decades. We use to put people in prison for that. Hoffa, another Detroiter, for one.

Hipsters generally do ok (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 6 months ago | (#46788903)

they'll move on when the time comes. Most of 'em have degrees. They'll leave behind the slums. While they're there the locals won't mess with them, because if they do the police (who are heavily armed thanks to 30 years of hand-me-downs from the military) will bust some heads until they do. Remember the last round of riots in Los Angeles? Everyone laughed and called them dumb because they trashed their own neighborhoods. That wasn't by choice. There were cops in full riot gear with military grade tanks cordoning off the rich communities so they didn't spill over...

The poor have learned to keep their misery to themselves...

shhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788353)

shhh, we do not need anymore people in the area. I like to be in demand and getting the proper money for my skill set. Do not blow it for the people here making bank.

Upsides and downsides (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788375)

Upsides: Detroit gets to pull itself up, maybe a single-digit percentages from the bottom.

Downsides: Tech people have to make a grim choice to take those jobs, consumers have to get more stuff in our cars that we don't really want.

It could happen (3, Insightful)

ErichTheRed (39327) | about 6 months ago | (#46788387)

I'm a Rust Belt kid, so seeing northern cities on something of a comeback trajectory is a good thing to me. The problem is image -- you have to find techies who are willing to put up with a very messed up local economy and deal with winter. I'm from Buffalo, and winters there are very long and cold. The obvious benefit is that the cost of living is much lower than California or similar. I couldn't believe last time I was in CA to visit a friend that they had just paid almost a million dollars for a 3-bedroom house with no property. I don't care how good the weather is, that's absolutely nuts, and I live in the NYC metro area, so I know about high real estate prices.

I think it's all cyclical. Right now where I am, everyone is moving to North Carolina (Why??) People cite a much lower cost of living. That's true -- you can sell your Long Island house and buy (literally) a mansion on several acres in NC. The only problem is that Charlotte, RTP, etc. are still cities and real estate that's close to jobs is going to be more. Your mansion is going to be 25 miles' drive from anywhere. Atlanta has a similar issue -- people deal with multi-hour commutes so they can live in a massive house inside a gated community in the middle of nowhere. Side note - a friend of mine who moved there for a job refers to Cary, NC as an acronym -- Containment Area for Relocated Yankees.

Personally, I love winter and would have no desire to move somewhere like Florida, Texas, or Arizona. Right now, those are the cheapest places business-wise, so jobs move there. But the northern states can play the game too. New York just gave some new businesses a 10 year tax holiday if they locate in certain parts of the state. All the state economic development agencies engage in this kind of poaching. The only problem is that the South is better at it because they don't fund schools and local governments to the same extent. If Michigan and Detroit are serious about this, and can afford it, then the businesses will move back. Executives don't care because they would either stay put or be happy just about anywhere. To them, it's not all that hard to pick up and move.

Low real estate prices, compact metro areas that mean short commute times, etc. are advantages that these states and cities can use. We'll see if it pans out.

Re:It could happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788515)

I just moved back to Cleveland after 7 years in DC. Been the best decision I've recently made for most of the reasons you state - my mortgage is half what it was in Arlington, but my basement alone is 150% the size of my old condo. My commute is also shorter, everything is cheaper, we actually get snow, and summers don't regularly hit 100. And I don't have to deal with the pretentious folks that you find on every street corner in NoVA.

Re:It could happen (1)

dirtaddshp (1188189) | about 6 months ago | (#46788713)

"compact metro areas" I lived in North Hollywood, CA which has those types of areas. It takes over an hour to drive 10 miles because every couple miles you sit in traffic for 20 minutes at a time... gridlock. Im done with that.

Couting Tech jobs.... Like "counting" Obamacare (0)

marcgvky (949079) | about 6 months ago | (#46788465)

I smell fuzzy math. It usually smells like bullshit.

The question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788479)

Are we talking real, full time, long term jobs, or did they hit the jackpot at the H1-B lottery?

Take him to.... (2)

dacarr (562277) | about 6 months ago | (#46788493)

Yanno, I can't help but think of this scene [youtube.com] from the Kentucky Fried Movie whenever somebody suggests that something is going to go to Detroit.

Do the Math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788537)

A nice package but you have to look under the cover and ask

As a Tech worker do I
Want to deal with East Coast Winters?
Live in the Cultural Mecca of the Mid-West?
Live in Detroit?
Deal with the crime?
Raise kids and send them to school there?
Work at a huge Dinosaur of a corporation?

As someone who has spent time in the Mid-west rust belt, I just don't see many people with real talent being willing to sign up for that.

-Just saying

I live in Ann Arbor, MI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788541)

Detroit a tech hub? LOL, make sure you get a carry permit when you move there. It would have to be a fat paycheck indeed to get me within 30 miles of Detroilet.

"Benchmarked region" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788613)

Denver-Boulder, noticeably absent, recently pegged as having the most scientists per capita than anywhere else in the nation. Hell, Twitter just acquired my downstairs neighbors.

No thanks (1)

BenSchuarmer (922752) | about 6 months ago | (#46788767)

I grew up in the midwest and prefer the west coast. When I want snow, I can go to the mountains to experience it.

I have a few relatives who expressed displeasure because I bought an imported car 16 years ago (don't blame me for wanting a well made car when America's big 3 where producing a lot of junk). I still drive that car today; they've had to replace their American made cars a couple times. They lived a couple of states away from Michigan, I'd guess that Michigan itself would be worse. As a techie, I want to be able to figure out what works instead of clinging to tradition.

I also wouldn't want my kids anywhere near Detroit schools.

Irony (1)

jtara (133429) | about 6 months ago | (#46788831)

I left Detroit for San Diego around 1985. I wrote software for various auto-related stuff (CNC, gauging, factory automation, SQC, Variation Analysis...) when I was there, and the experience was invaluable.

The irony is that the percentage of tech works now is likely many times what it was when I was there. The job loss has been in blue-collor factory jobs, support jobs for the closed factories, service and retail to support all those workers, etc. etc. etc.

Yea, my old high school (Cass Tech) got gutted by a scrapper fire. (They built a new school, and the old one was to be turned into Condos...)

Blacks... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46788881)

... Need I say anything else?

Detoilet is a failure because of BLACKS, nothing else.

White create.
Blacks destroy.

Any questions?

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