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Mozilla M10 Released To The World 100

Posted by Hemos from the must-be-more-stable dept.
johns713 sent us the word that Milestone 10 of Mozilla has been released. For more information on what M10 has read the release notes. Now I gotta see if it will stay up on my machine this time - or at least beat Netscape for uptime.
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Mozilla M10 Released To The World More

Mozilla M10 Released To The World

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  • I think you'll find this was posted a couple of days ago... ;)
  • Talk about bad memory huh!?

    These proves computers effect our memory!
  • i was going to post my own "um, hemos? what the hell?" comment , but this one is pretty funny.

  • Cool! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Thanks, I'll download that again, and... um...

    But seriously, M10 looks really pretty. I was very impressed. The Mozilla team is doing a damn fine job. That is to say, slashdot loaded fine, it was fast, I could log in, and it didn't die on me. That's all I really want from a browser. :)
  • I'd like to remind you all that there's a slight chance Hemos was not the one who posted this two or three days ago, and that mistakes can and do happen.

    Hell.. It's much more annoying when you actually *pay for* a newspaper with one editor, and see the same story in it twice or even three times. (Only once that I've seen, ever... Vancouver Province)



    ------
  • Those who like playing with the latest & greatest might want to try out 2.3.20. It's on the usual mirrors, and whilst it's been out since Saturday, it is new news on Slashdot. :)

    (No offence meant to the admins here, who do a great job.)

  • I tried the M10 release for Win98 (ick), and the new layout engine is indeed a lot faster. On Netscape 4.x there is a noticeable lag while the program renders the page after loading a large comment-full slashdot page, but the new one is a LOT faster.
    Crashes over and over and over and over, though.

    The two ways to run it are to execute apprunner or viewer. Viewer is barebones, back, forward and address only, whereas Apprunner launches the new communicator, which is pink (......) and has a lot of ... stuff.

    Personally, i like the stripped down viewer a lot better! If it only had bookmarks, and a way to open links in a new window, I would make viewer my only browser ... screw the new communicator! I dont need all the other stuff that comes with it. just the browser, ma'am.

  • Turnips (Score:1)

    by vipw ( 228 )
    I don't remember which thread, but way back when, i think it was one of the first /. reposts, everybody had allready said all they thought about it so they just started discussions about whatever. All I really remember is that it was funny and a great way to fill in a gap of /. I was wondering what the chances are for an entirely open forum that follows the same basic rules, but nothing could be offtopic :). That said, what do you folks think about turnips?
  • The link today is http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release- notes/m10.html While in Sat October 09, the link was http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release- notes/m10.html and http://www.mozillazine.org/. Oh, one more. Any new discussion within 2 days?
  • Mozilla is definitely a usable browser now, it's got a few annoying bugs but nothing that shouldn't get fixed before beta.
    Download the builds and give bug reports or criticism. Check that it works with your favourite sites. Read the relavant documents on http://www.mozilla.org/ for information on bug reporting and helping the mozilla team.
    The main problem with Mozilla is that it needs glibc2.1 or higher to work, if anyone can help them work on a solution then please do so if you have the time.

    --

  • Deja vu -- perhaps a new script would help? (Score:5)

    by FreeUser ( 11483 ) on Monday October 11, 1999 @03:38AM (#1623977)
    This is something a script probably ought to be able to catch, or at least help point out. Clearly hemos didn't know roblimo had already posted this Saturday, but perhaps some kind of a "pre-post" filter could have warned him that an article with nearly identical terms was posted within the last 72 hours, with a link to the article that could be checked and verified to see if it was indeed the same (or very similar) article or not.

    Just a suggestion -- this sort of thing happens, but it does have a way of bringing out the malcontents with their flamethrowers set to kill.

    But before the malcontents scream too loudly: there is plenty of new stuff on /. to keep one busy. And remember, you can't beat the price of this particular magazine ...

  • turnips (Score:1)

    by Juln ( 41313 )
    well, I store in my mind a memory of turnips that is none to happy...one time, dinner time in my distant past, my mother told me that a bowl of mashed turnips were mashed potatoes, and upon tasting the alleged potatoes i experienced quite a shock to my tongue.
    If i had been expecting the taste of a turnip, things would be different for me today, and possibly all of society.
  • Is the right-click menu working yet?

    (I could download and install, but I generally find I have to then unisnstall cos it's so unstable, hopefuilly you folks can save me some time?)

  • I saw this announcement yesterday and remembered all the trolls that diss Mozialla everytime it's announcen on Slashdot. This time I figured, what that hell, it's only a download, let's give it a try.

    I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, there are some incomplete things and little bugs, but it renders far faster than netscape and is generally usable. In my book, that's pretty good for pre-beta software, especially considering where these guys are coming from ... kudos to the Mozilla guys ...
  • For some reason, I haven't been able to make Mozilla run on my stampede (http://www.stampede.org) since M7 or M8 or thereabout. Granted, I haven't tried very hard, but neither the binary releases nor a build from source seems to work "out of the box". Anyone with similar experiences (or perhaps explanations?) out there??

    --
  • Yeah...there should be some sort of post log or something that they can grep to check if their story has been posted already. Funny, don't they work in the same building, if not room??
  • Connection closed by remote host.

  • Redundant article? (Score:4)

    by juggleme ( 53716 ) on Monday October 11, 1999 @03:55AM (#1623986)
    Maybe all we really need is a way for the moderators to mark articles as Redundant. Or insightful, interesting, whatever, but no points; that could get ugly...

    Sorry to make this short, but I gotta run in about 5 ms (milliseconds, not Microsofts...)
  • The two articles were even posted at the same time...

    Seriously tho' I dl'ed the Win release to use here at work and it is fast and almost usable...once it gets stable enough it looks like somthing that a lot of people may like...


    -Red
  • And there are some, umm, difficulties with 2.3.20 as well.
    *points at l-k*
  • do you never eat turnips now then?
    • Did Microsoft produce it? Last I heard, a company called Spyglass contributed most of the original IE code.
    • IE 5.0 doesn't crash in the first minute, true. It waits until the second. I've had plenty of IE crashes under NT and 98.
    • MS IE 5 doesn't run under Linux, and probably never will. Not a ringing endorsement, if you have to install a second OS, just to run a web browser.
    • Mozilla is phenominal, as a browser. It's not rock-solid, yet, but it's not a final release, either. I suspect even IE wasn't brilliant, in the early alpha stages.
    • Then, there's Arena, and some of the other W3 Consortium's web browsers. Not the latest technology, true, but they're good and they're very usable.
    • If you're tied into Microsoft, and use only a Microsoft OS, why post about a (primarily) Unix web browser? It says a lot about the grey matter in the original poster's head.
    • If you're going to flamebait, I'll point out your grammatical errors. Your sentance structure is horrible and you miss out a number of commas. All in all, I'm going to give your post a grade of F, and that's generous.
  • From what I read in the release, it requires glibc 2.1 because of threading issues. Previous versiosn of Glibc were _NOT_ threadsafe enough for Mozilla, apparently, so they use 2.1= exclusively.
    Deal.
  • Seeing as most of the on topic stuff would have already been said a day or so ago I thought I'd ask how do I detect which glibc I have?

    My system is RedHat 5.2 based so I'm guessing that it isn't 2.1

    I've got RH 6, Caldera 2.2-N and Suse 6.2 CDs lurking about, I wonder if I can pull it off one of them without completely screwing my system? Any suggestions (or more importantly warnings) before I give it a go?

    The Great Chunder Page - Alcohol Induced Fun!
  • Instead of better scripts, maybe all /. needs is to go back to the old days, when it was a site that the maintainers actually read themselves.

    They used to read every comment. Is it too much to read at least every headline? Sorry to see this happen...have they lost the passion?

    The Reuse Rocket [mibsoftware.com] - more than 6000 open source software links, PLUS the info and FAQs you need to use them.

  • I think someone did the renderer as a GTK widget, so I don't think it would take a whole lot of glue to make a functional browser to your own specs. Might be worth looking in to... I'd like a stripped down browser with just a little browser related functionality too.
  • They could grep it with their own friggin' eyes on the main page in the "Older Stuff" section. It's apparent that the "editors" of Slashdot don't read Slashdot.
  • Yes they implemented the right click menu just before m10. Works great except it does not open just under the cursor but on the top of the html view.

    Pretty strange but hey it's still an alpha !

    J-F Mammet
  • http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release- notes/m10.html

    Even though M10's unstable it seems there's still too many bugs for release. Perhaps we won't see NS5 this year?
  • Clearly hemos didn't know roblimo had already posted this Saturday...

    Clearly hemos doesn't read slashdot. :)

  • Try rpm -qa | grep libc , and look at the version numbers on the packages it reports... I'm guessing you'll have about glibc 2.06 or so..
  • There are several ways to do this:

    1. Look at /lib/libc* and /usr/lib/libc*. The version should be given as the filename.
    2. There should be a header file, in /usr/include, that includes the major and minor version number for glibc.

  • MS IE 5 doesn't run under Linux, and probably never will. Not a ringing endorsement, if you have to install a second OS, just to run a web browser.

    WTF?! At least you can get to the license agreement dialog under Solaris. That's one better than M10!


    I would happily pay $50 for a Linux version of Internet Explorer.
  • Oh, no! It can't be true, can it? Aiii! It's too horrible to contemplate! Roblimo, Hemos and CmdrTaco are victims of a horrible experiment by alien beings, involving a Xerox machine and a photocopier!
  • a Xerox machine AND a photocopier?

  • Re:wow (Score:2)

    by jd ( 1658 )
    *G* The aliens took over my keyboard, to prevent the ugly truth leaking out. Honest! That should have been a Xerox machine and a revolving door. :)
  • Well, it's true (IMO) that Mozilla looks ugly and klunky. The operative word here is _LOOKS_. While Microsoft has X number of people to paint on a pretty (gimmicky) interface, people at Mozilla are actually tackling the tough core stuff first. Who cares about the interface just yet? They can clean that up in a few days I'm sure. What matters is that work is being done on the all important unseen core of Mozilla. Besides the annoying b0rked textareas, the Mozilla renderer is really cool (actually the native widget viewer.exe doesn't have the textarea probs). A great interface is not worth anything if the software doesn't do anything. Anyway, a lot more than a browser is coming out of Mozilla. Mozilla is many cases is simply the first real implementation of some standards. In conclusion, if you don't contribute, don't gripe, just buy your $50 IE and be happy.
  • I have downloaded every release and alot of nightly builds. You should have seen it at first it was really not all that great. I must say that if it keeps getting better it will be the perfect browser. It actually let me log in to /. today and post something. Now that was impressive in itself. It loaded my webpages which it has never done before without some really bad messups. Zdnet still doesn't load but that's probably because they are working for Billy boy anyway. I like the throbber that they picked for the releases after M9. I was in that contest and I came in 3rd from dead last but hey I won a Tshirt and that's all I wanted. Keep going Mozilla. Even if they don't win the browser war I will still use the browser.
  • Righto 2.0.7 it is.
    The question now is can I safely upgrade (using an RPM or by spending a day downloading and compiling all the bits and pieces) without breaking other things?

    The Great Chunder Page - Alcohol Induced Fun!
  • Personally I detest IE. I'll never use it on any machines I have. I even removed it from win98 w/ 98lite. Machine never crashes. Thats amazing for a windows machine ;) I've had uptimes of 4 weeks. But seriously, I've had nothing but an extremely bad experience w/ any version of IE, on any machine. Everyone always talks about Netscape crashing, or ghosting, etc. When? Maybe I'm just lucky... I'm a die-hard Netscape user...when the company was assimilated by AOL, I felt something good had died...Mozilla.org is my last hope. I don't believe the Netscape Node of AOL can put out anything as good as Mozilla.org could if given enough time.

    They keep adding on extra Sh!t I don't want. That shopping button in the latest release, wtf? I can find a site to buy stuff from very well myself... I'm still using 4.5, & even keep my 2.x & 3.x versions on here for nostaglia. If Mozilla.org can't deliver within the next year+, i'll prolly use 4.5 for as long as it can work for all the sites I visit...but I might end up switching to Opera, even tho the design/interface/everything of that browser just makes me sick...we'll see what happens w/ the Beta release of Mozilla...

    Tom

  • Does anyone have a URL to a Mozilla build that can do HTTPS? Non-US server preferred of course, but I can live with a "restricted" one too if you only got that.
  • The damned thing won't even RUN without glibc 2.1!

    Maybe that'll be a fairly reasonable assumption by the time Mozilla is released (hehe), but it's not right now. On the one hand, it doesn't make sense to cut out of alpha testing everyone who's running RH 6, TurboLinux (me), older SuSE, Debian 2.2, et cetera. But OTOH, I can see how some enterprising soul could d/l the current source and figure out a workaround so that it eventually *will* run on 2.0.

    I still hope against hope that Mozilla 5.0 will manage to pick the best features from Netscape 3.x and 4.x, and put them together in a browser with the speed of lynx ;)

    MoNsTeR
  • Mine won't run either. RedHat 6.0. Just
    gives some GTK warnings and exits...
    Time to try the source.

  • I just downloaded and installed M10 on my Redhat 6.0 machine.

    Everything seemed nice to me. I pulled up www.enlightenment.org, and it looked REALLY screwed up, but I'm guessing that's because mozilla is a lot more strict about it's html code. I bet the site is doing something funky.

    The real fun part came when I decided to quit from mozilla. File/Quit appears to be set to print.

    I tried to exit the program, and was prompted for my printer settings.

    WHEE!
  • What we really need is a way to moderate not only comments but also the articles themselves. This way it could be marked as 'redundant', or in the case of Katz articles, 'troll'.
  • I agree with what you're saying. IMHO, that is the great thing about projects such as Mozilla. They ARE open source, so people CAN do more than gripe. If they have an itch, they have the power to scratch it.

    I also agree that getting the core stable first is the important part. A UI is (a) trivial, and (b) totally unimportant when it comes to what the software can do.

    The cost of IE has been blended in with other products, making it an invisible cost. Whilst it's d/l is "free", you can bet their accounting department can say exactly how much profit they've made on it. Having said that, from the user's perspective, IE is free. That deters them from using anything else seriously, as anything else has to cost more, somehow... ...doesn't it?

  • My GOD! How can you be flaming at a program that's still in ALPHA?? Let me say it again... ALPHA! That comes before beta! Get my point??

    I'd almost like to see what IE 3 looked like in alpha... LOL
    (they never released 1 & 2, for fear of looking too primitive and too far behind Netscape)

    -----
  • Once again I compiled it on my Alpha with high hopes. As always, a flawless compile with a
    non working executable. I haven't been able
    to run this on alpha since around m5. I lose more and more faith in mozilla every iteration.
  • Actually, they did release IE2... and it *was* ugly. IE3 was the version that had the bitmapped swirly-things behind the button bar. IE2 looked like... well... crap. the button bar was the same looking as the regular explorer button bar- the ugly square buttons. (sorry i don't have any more technical details other than what the buttons looked like- but it was still at the point where the AOL web browswer was better... /me pukes)

    ie2 came with the initial release of Win95... OSR2 started giving out IE3 (which billy boy was so proud of, he put it in their bootscreen bmp.)
    :)
    i suspect the original IE was a win31 app that no one cared about, because a) the web wasn't big way back in that day, and b) netscape and mosaic stilled ruled the (small) market.
  • Once again I compiled it on my Alpha with high hopes. As always, a flawless compile with a non working executable. I haven't been able to run this on alpha since around m5. I lose more and more faith in mozilla every iteration.

    Yup... it's because they use a lot of very badly written code in it - code that specifically depends on pointers being 32-bit. The code is way too buried in the rest of Mozilla that the chances are it will never work on anything besides a 32-bit box.

    "Software is like sex- the best is for free"
  • Are you running apprunner or viewer? If you run mozilla-apprunner.sh or whatever it's called you'll have something that resembles a web browser with the back, forward and stop buttons as well as bookmarks and a useful cookie manager. Viewer is just a basic shell for testing the layout engine without all the additional overhead so it can be used to test bugs in the layout engine.
    --
  • hrm, maybe you should read the info on mozilla's page before spouting off about it. The reason they aren't supporting glibc 2.0 is because of some rather large bugs in it that require workarounds. They may add support in the future, but it would require a lot of work.
  • Does this work with a socks server (win NT)? I haven't done much digging yet.

    I set network.hosts.socks_server and network.proxy.type just like my old prefs, but I still can't load anything from the outside world.

    Setting netowrk.proxy.http and http_port won't work, I wouldn't think.
  • The issue isn't actually in Mozilla, it's in the glibc2 threading. To make a long issue short, it's broken. Now, you could remove threading from Mozilla entirely, which would fix it. It would also involve rewriting a lot of code (I would assume; I don't actually hack Mozilla). The other option is to fix glibc2's threading prob... wait, it's been done, and it's called glibc2.1.


    glibc2.1 is relatively easy to install from source (since it's binary compatible). Red Hat has been glibc2.1 based since 6.0, and Debian is glibc2.1 based in potato. In short, get glibc2.1. It's a Good Thing to do.

  • Actually, Red Hat 6.0, potato (Debian 2.2), and SuSE since 6.0 (I think) use glibc2.1. See my previous post about pre-glibc2.1 threading as to why you definitely don't want Mozilla to be "fixed".

  • Re:Wish it would work on Alpha (Score:3)

    by Mike Shaver ( 7985 ) on Monday October 11, 1999 @07:49AM (#1624038) Homepage
    That's a pretty interesting accusation, Dr. Spong. I've not heard any reports of such assumptions in Mozilla code in many months, though there are some problems on Linux/Alpha: lack of -mieee in CFLAGS on systems which aren't correctly detected as Alphas, and some issues which might be related to glibc/pthreads stuff (``CAN'T HAPPEN'' things in pthread_mutex_lock, etc.). These aren't universal problems with the architecture, though, as evidenced by the fact that we have a working M10 build for OpenVMS/Alpha, which is also a 64-bit platform. (The M10 build for that, as well as Linux/SPARC, will be hitting the FTP site shortly.)

    If you can find a case of code depending on 32-bit pointer width, please file a bug [mozilla.org] and Cc: shaver@mozilla.org on it. I will _personally_ repair it, if you don't get rapid response for the owner of the code in question.

  • If you're on a permanent net connection it's probably a good idea to keep up with the nightly builds if you want to see progress with Mozilla. There's already a few noticeable improvements in todays nightly build which weren't in the milestone release. Remember that as these builds are produced automatically there may be times when the builds are more buggy than usual or won't start at all.

    If you're using the latest version it may help in submitting useful bug reports and will help you spot bugs as they happen (remember to quote the build ID when submitting bug reports - it is found in the status bvar at the bottom).
    --
  • Arena? Arena?? As software that doesn't suck? LMAO!

    Sorry. I've used Arena. I haven't seen a page yet that it renders correctly... it manages to screw up even the most basic HTML. lynx produces better formatted and more correct page renderings than Arena does. I think lynx may even handle tables better than Arena...

    Amaya, now, is a different story. Still not as good as Netscape, but close. If it didn't try to edit every page you brought up in it, it might even be better than Netscape... it's certainly more stable.
  • You suck!
    Netscape also have Icon Artists that can draw buttoms and stuffs. Theose buttons on Mozilla are Temporary.
  • I must correct myself: while OpenVMS uses 64-bit addressing, the compiler is run in a mode that uses sizeof(int) == sizeof(long) == sizeof(void *) == 4.

    My offer stands, though: find code that assumes sizeof(void *) == 4 in Mozilla, and I'll fix it for you.

  • Saturday [slashdot.org] October 09
    Mozilla M10 Released [slashdot.org](166)


    This from the main page, a mere few hundred pixels from the this story!
  • Ahh! Haggis, mashed tatties and neeps (that's turnips to you). Yum!

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • Im having problem ssince M8. Ive investigated into it a little, using ddd/gdb and found it behave differently inside the debugger, but still not running. Anyway, I posted it on /. and got the answer, threading was erroneous in glibc2.1.2, which I had, and a link to a glibc bug report (take a look somewhere down the old M10 post). That bug report fitted my observations (at least as long as I was running apprunner from a debugger)
    So I downgraded to glibc2.1.1 and am still stuck with the same problem :(

    Installing glibc2.1.1 might do it for you. But it didnt for me.
  • No, I don't want that.

    I don't trust other peoples moderating. The traffic isn't that massive anyway.

    --

  • Turnips? WHERE? Quick, get them away from me!

    (PurpleBob runs screaming across the Internet until he is safely 19 links away.)
    --
  • When talking about stripped down web browsers, I just like to bring up this one again. W3M is a text based web browser that is truly amazing! It handles tables, frames and forms without a glitch.

    Lynx is nice, but this one really is outstanding. On a slow machine (such as my poor workstation at work), W3M is big relief compared to using Netscape (even compared to Lynx for that matter).

    Find it here:
    ftp://ei5nazha.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/w3m/
  • I had never experienced turnips before, and now ... i'm scared to even try them.
  • I've been so damned busy trying to get Mozilla to work on the MacOS partition (without luck), I was wondering if anyone had gotten it to work on Linux/PPC yet.

    Is there an RPM avaialble, or should I get give it a go when I get home?

    Jay (=
  • Well, Netscape is simply maintaining a codebase whose days are numbered, keeping it going until Mozilla is ready. Apparently, when Mozilla is complete, they will be taking it and using it to create Netscape 5.0 .

    So there simply won't be any moves to address the major faults of Netscape 4.x -- that was what Mozilla was for.

    Anyway, Netscape 5.0 probably won't be anything more than the first release version of Mozilla with a bunch of bells, whistles, and gongs bolted on. I'll have to wait and see, but it's likely that I'll stick with Mozilla, and only go to Netscape 5.0 if there's some major functionality that I can't live without.
  • Did Microsoft produce it? Last I heard, a company called Spyglass contributed most of the original IE code.

    Well, the story I've heard goes something like this:

    MS: We need a web browser, quick. We've never rapidly developed anything as good as flakey software on our own before, so we'd better buy it. Let's go buy Spyglass to obtain their Spyglass Mosaic browser.

    Spyglass: No way are you going to buy us. We know what happens to people who get bought out by MS. Forget it.

    MS: Well shoot, I guess we can't fool you. What about a licensing agreement.

    Spyglass: Wellll... what kind of agreement did you have in mind?

    MS: Tell you what, we'll give you guys 50% of the gross. Now that's a good deal.

    Spyglass: Say, that is a good deal. No tricks?

    MS: Would we lie?

    Spyglass: It's a deal!

    MS: Great. Did we mention that we're going to give it away for free, which means you get nothing at all?

    Spyglass: ;_;

    The moral is, don't deal with the Devil^H^H^H^H^H Microsoft.

  • If Windows had a bug as fatal as the one in glibc 2.0, they'd find a work around...

    ... but with linux, it's "tough luck, go upgrade."

    This, to me, doesn't seem like the unix way at all... whatever happened to trying to be as portable as possible?
  • Sheesh. Mozilla is pre-alpha.
    If you want to flamebait Mozilla, wait at least until a beta is released.
  • You have a point about things other than the default not necessarily being free. The user would have to choose to spend time downloading and configuring Mozilla. This, to me is a negligable price to pay for a much better (and moral IMHO ;) product...but to random user, there just might not be an incentive. Maybe when users start realizing how often things really break and what IE does to their system they may be open for an alternative. Hopefully Mozilla's merits will bring the users. If standards compliant pages start rendering incorrectly in their "compliant" IE browser, then they'll switch perhaps.

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